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  • Virtual Chitchatting 3:24 PM on 2014/04/02 Permalink  

    Windows Phone app and USB Driver for Nokia Lumia 920 (RM-820, RM-821, RM 822) are needed to connect with your PC
    by Sando Sasako
    Jakarta, 2014-04-02 15:24:14

    usb driver for rm821-lumia920

    ie only

    nokia usb connectivity

    download the file below, unzip it to a folder, update your driver manually. how, read through the articles below.

    The USB Driver for Nokia Lumia 920
    Microsoft Windows Phone USB Driver version 4.8.2345.0.

    Driver 32Bit: http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/driver/drvs/2011/09/20445958_5bc1484ffe8efe19eeb100975cd41e7fe900dae9.cab

    Driver 64Bit: http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/driver/drvs/2011/09/20445957_af4c69a49b1c22e7742607e213118e23255be17e.cab

    Supported OS :
    Nokia Lumia 920 RM-820, RM-821 USB Driver For Windows XP
    Nokia Lumia 920 RM-820, RM-821 USB Driver For Windows Vista
    Nokia Lumia 920 RM-820, RM-821 USB Driver For Windows 7
    Nokia Lumia 920 RM-820, RM-821 USB Driver For Windows 8

    In order to manually update your driver, follow the steps below (the next steps):
    1. Go to Device Manager (right click on My Computer, choose Manage and then find Device Manager in the left panel)
    2. Right click on the hardware device you wish to update and choose Update Driver Software
    3. Choose to select the location of the new driver manually and browse to the folder where you downloaded the driver.

    The Windows Phone app

    Windows Phone app is needed to connect your Desktop PC with your Phone to transfer Data, Files and videos or just to update your phone firmware.


    Windows Phone app: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/1/D/51D75C65-2D42-4506-8CDF-EC7DB290A663/WindowsPhone.exe

    Windows Phone app Features :
    • Sync data ( music, photos, Videos, and podcast from your existing Apple iTunes library or your Windows Libraries to your Nokia Lumia 920.
    • Automatically import pictures and videos From your Smartphone to your PC.
    • Get your playlists on your smartphone.
    • Find ringtones to add them to your smartphone.

    For Windows
    Windows 7 or Windows 8 on your PC
    Windows Phone 8 on your Smart Phone

    For Mac
    Mac OS X version 10.7 or later.
    Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone 7, or Zune HD on your smartphone.

    note : if you have any problem in windows 7 just download Media Feature Pack from here. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=16546

    if you have any problem with installing Nokia Lumia 920 Driver Please Write a comment with your Problem.

    Windows Phone app For Windows http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=265472
    Windows Phone app For Mac http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=209661




  • Virtual Chitchatting 2:52 PM on 2014/04/02 Permalink  

    if ever you’re in my arms again 

    If Ever You’re In My Arms Again – YouTube

    29 Nov 2007 – 4 min – Uploaded by hannaberry2
    ► 3:57

    Peabo Bryson – If ever your in my arms again (lyrics) – YouTube

    19 Jan 2010 – 4 min – Uploaded by Anne Marie
    ► 4:13

    If Ever You’re In My Arms Again

    It all came so easy
    All the lovin’ you gave me
    The feelings we shared
    And I still can remember
    How your touch was so tender
    It told me you cared

    We had a once in a lifetime
    But I just couldn’t see
    Until’ it was gone
    A second once in a lifetime
    May be too much to ask
    But I swear from now on

    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll love you much better
    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll hold you forever
    This time we’ll never end

    Now I’m seen clearly
    How I still need you near me
    I still love you so
    There’s something between us
    That won’t ever leave us
    There’s no letting go
    (No letting go)

    We had a once in a lifetime
    But I just didn’t know it
    ‘Til my life fell apart
    A second once in a lifetime
    Isn’t too much to ask
    ‘Cause I swear from the heart

    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll love you much better
    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll hold you forever
    This time we’ll never end, never end

    The best of romances
    Deserve second chances
    I’ll get to you somehow
    ‘Cause I promise now

    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll love you much better
    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll hold you forever
    This time we’ll never end

    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll love you much better
    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll hold you forever
    This time we’ll never end

    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll love you much better
    If ever you’re in my arms again
    This time I’ll hold you forever
    This time we’ll never end
    If ever you’re in my arms again

    Writer(s): Cynthia Weil
    Copyright: Dyad Music

  • Virtual Chitchatting 5:30 PM on 2014/03/28 Permalink  

    I relive the same old dream day and night 

    Love Is Forever
    Billy Ocean

    I relive the same old dream day and night
    Memories of love I knew
    I couldn’t live my life, or so it seemed
    My heart cried out for only you

    Oh, I believe in love, girl I believe in you
    Things you do, I’m falling in love again with you
    A broken heart can mend if given time
    I know why love is forever, love is forever with you

    With every passing day I realise
    That time will never heal the pain
    You’re all that I’ve been thinking of
    Can’t we fall in love again

    Oh, I believe in love, girl I believe in you
    Things you do, I’m falling in love again with you
    A broken heart can mend if given time
    I know why love is forever, love is forever with you

    Every road will lead me back to you again, my love
    Oh I cry so many tears, I couldn’t face another day without you
    So tell me you care

    Oh, ooh, ooh, yeah, I believe in love, cause I believe in you
    Things you do, I’m falling in love again with you
    I tried to let it go but it wouldn’t die
    I know why love is forever, love is forever with you

    Billy Ocean – Love Is Forever – YouTube

    18 Jan 2013 – 4 min – Uploaded by BillyOceanVEVO
    ► 4:10

    Billy Ocean – Love Is Forever – YouTube

    6 Jun 2010 – 4 min – Uploaded by OhSoMusic
    ► 4:10

    Billy Ocean Love is Forever – YouTube

    18 Aug 2010 – 4 min – Uploaded by lars manich
    ► 4:18

  • Virtual Chitchatting 3:56 PM on 2014/03/28 Permalink  

    I love to love you 

    Billy Ocean – Rose – YouTube

    29 Oct 2012 – 5 min – Uploaded by slowjam2u
    ► 5:28

    Billy Ocean

    If you wake up in the dead of night
    To feel alone, like a helpless child
    Reach out for me, I’ll be close to you
    I need to touch, that’s all I wanna do

    And I feel a blaze of glory
    When I’m in your arms
    Whoa, I love to love you darling
    Don’t care how many times
    When you take me to your heaven
    Then I know that you’re mine

    Oh Rose, you’re my rose
    More beautiful to me than any flower
    You’re my world, everything that I desire
    It started with a spark, now it’s a fire
    In other words you mean everything to me
    We both belong together
    Say you’ll be forever my rose

    I see the sun within your smile
    So warm and tender, lighting up the sky
    I can’t believe I’m sharing love with you
    But I believe dreams come true

    Cause you and I together, we’ll weather any storm
    Oh when two hearts beat as one
    And if the road is long we’ll travel if together
    Oh you’ll be the only one

    Oh Rose, you’re my rose
    More beautiful to me than any flower
    You’re my world, everything that I desire
    It started with a spark, now it’s a fire
    In other words you mean everything to me
    We both belong together
    Say you’ll be forever my rose

    Oh, in other words you mean everything to me
    We both belong together
    Say you’ll be forever my rose
    Oh say that it’s forever
    Say it’s forever

    Writer(s): Robert S. Kelly, Billy Ocean
    Copyright: Aqua Music Ltd., Zomba Songs, R. Kelly Publishing Inc.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:44 PM on 2014/03/26 Permalink  

    it takes one to know one. knuffle bunny! 

    It Takes a Thief, Season 1, Episode 2: It Takes One to Know One

    It Takes One to Know One (TV Episode 1968) – IMDb

    Directed by Leslie Stevens. With Robert Wagner, Malachi Throne, Peter Mark
    Richman, Susan Saint James.

    Mundy is tasked with going to a small European state who’s only source of income is its casino. Soviet infiltrators are attempting to steal the states crown jewels as a way of forcing the casino to close. Mundy must try and stop the robbery from happening

    Alexander Mundy – smooth, suave, sophisticated – is the world’s greatest cat burglar. Finally arrested after years of pilfering, he strikes a deal with American agent Noah Bain: a full pardon if Mundy agrees to use his skills to steal for the SIA, an American espionage agency. Technically under house arrest, Mundy travels all over the world performing daring acts of thievery in the name of Uncle Sam. Written by Marty McKee

    The coolest show ever.
    28 August 2001 | by UNIVEX (Sun Valley, California) – See all my reviews
    It Takes a Thief was the coolest show ever. Wagner was suave, sophisticated, and always well dressed. Inventive stories, great dialogue, and watching Robert Wagner and Fred Astaire plot to knock over the casino in Monte Carlo is just irresistible. This would be a perfect candidate for a big-screen remake, but there’s nobody cool enough to fill Alexander Mundy’s shoes–maybe Travolta?

    Robert Wagner http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001822/
    Fred Astaire http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000001/
    Malachi Throne http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0861943/

    IT TAKES A THIEF 225: The Great Chess Gambit (4/15/1969)

    Al is sent to recover a black box that contains nuclear detonation codes. He must match wits with a chess player who has intentions on the disposition off the box.

    Cast: Robert Wagner (Alexander Mundy); Dick Simmons (General McCready), Roberto Iglesias (Doctor), Carol Larson (Girl), Tiger Joe Marsh (Brutus), Don Lorbett (Huck), Greg Mullavey (Georgie), Sheila Nealson (Sheila), Maria Noel (Lady in Red), David Renard (Raphael), Nehemiah Persoff (Harry Lavender), Dick O’Shea (Sparky Kramer), Ben Cooper (Maxwell), Stuart Margolin (Sagalis), Peter Coe (Kurt)


    The Great Chess Gambit [retrotv] (Size: 349.27 MB)
    ITaT 225 The Great Chess Gambit.avi 349.27 MB
    Torrent downloaded from Demonoid.com.txt 47 bytes



  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:09 PM on 2014/03/22 Permalink  

    The Vanishing Story of MH370 is to revive NSA, facilitated by NSF Diego Garcia, the US Department of Defense has sponsored the hijacking and abduction of MH370 by AWACS, and flown escortedly to the US East Coast
    by Sando Sasako
    Jakarta, Mar 22, 2014 @ 13:09

    this is a work in progress…

    a search for a “missing” plane is a great opportunity to stage all your military assets for battle, is it not? A great reason to send various nation’s militaries to what could soon be a conflict zone.

    please check my predicted analysis in late 2011:
    Asia, A Soon-To-Be War Zone for the United States, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/asia-a-soon-to-be-war-zone-for-the-united-states/

    you won’t file the link in Google, as this site has been scrutinised regularly by the NIC, US Department of Defense, Langley, US Military Contractor Companies, and mostly by Lockheed Martin. the link has been notified to be taken down (TakeDown Notice) from the GOOFY (Goofle Search Engine Results).

    Here are some facts and achievements of Lockheed Martin:
    1. one of the world’s largest defense contractors.
    2. about three quarters of Lockheed Martin’s revenues came from military sales.
    3. receiving the largest funds paid out by the Pentagon.

    as a picture, in 2009, the US Government made contracts accounted for $38.4 billion (85%), foreign government contracts $5.8 billion (13%), and commercial and other contracts for $900 million (2%).

    Lockheed Martin operates in five business segments. These comprise Aeronautics, Information Systems & Global Solutions, Missile and Fire Control, Mission Systems and Training, and Space Systems.

    The takedown notices have been the impacts of my published analyses below. You may download the files in pdf:

    In late 2011, I made a compiling list of US Naval Fleet and aircraft supercarriers in “United States’ Hostile War Intentions”, http://mayachitchatting.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/united-states_-hostile-intentions-to-wage-any-war.pdf

    In late 2012, I made a compiling list of US Intelligence Community structure and how it operates (assessing the world of intelligence) in “Greet terror. Kiss your freedom goodbye.” http://mayachitchatting.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/e298a2e298a3e298a0.pdf

    Read other highly related articles:

    1. Calculating the magnitude of world’s mobile war machines of present day, aka United States’ Hostile War Intentions, a full-fledged photo collection of world’s aircraft carriers, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/calculating-the-magnitude-of-worlds-mobile-war-machines-of-present-day/

    2. The Blunt Oil Embargo and Other International Sanctions Measures of European Union, United Nations, and other United States’ Puppy Dog Countries to Iran’s National Interests, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/the-blunt-international-sanctions-measures-to-irans-national-interests/

    3. The Pressing Measures of European Union against Iranian Nuclear Program, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/the-pressing-measures-of-european-union-against-iranian-nuclear-program/

    4. The Jews have been up and against Iran, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/the-jews-have-been-up-and-against-iran/

    5. An Act of War, A Jewish Way to Wage War: A Terror by Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientists, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/an-act-of-war-a-jewish-way-to-wage-war-a-terror-by-killing-iranian-nuclear-scientists/

    6. Blame it on Iran, The Silly Plot of US Government to Assassinate Saudi Ambassador to the US, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/05/15/blame-it-on-iran-the-silly-plot-of-us-government-to-assassinate-saudi-ambassador-to-the-us/

    7. Another Debauchery Humiliating the US Military Institutions under the aegis of US Secret Service, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/another-debauchery-humiliating-the-us-military-institutions-under-the-aegis-of-us-secret-service/

    8. The Russia is advancing toward Syria, guarding the main entry point for the US to infiltrate the West Asia, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/the-russia-is-advancing-toward-syria-guarding-the-main-entry-point-for-the-us-to-infiltrate-the-west-asia/

    9. Asia, A Soon-To-Be War Zone for the United States, http://mayachitchatting.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/asia-a-soon-to-be-war-zone-for-the-united-states/

    Critical to note about Flight 370’s flight deviation, GRU experts in this report say, was that it occurred during the same time period that all of the Spratly Island mobile phone communications operated by China Mobile were being jammed.

    Four days after a missing flight, a patent is approved by the Patent Office for maximizing dies on a wafer. 4 of the 5 Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX. Patent is divided up on 20% increments to 5 holders. Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20%) Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20%) Freescale Semiconductor (20%) If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders equally share the dividends of the deceased if not disputed in a will. If 4 of the 5 dies, then the remaining 1 Patent holder gets 100% of the wealth of the patent. That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.
    Who owns Freescale Semiconductor ?? Jacob Rothschild through Blackstone who owns Freescale. Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all 4 Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane. Patent holders can alter the proceeds legally by passing wealth to their heirs. However, they cannot do so until the Patent is approved. So when the plane went missing, the patent had not been approved. Thus, Rothschild gets 100% of Patent once Patent holders declared deceased. Rothschild, you are an evil bastard

    James Bond069 · 1 week ago
    It is totally plausible, but my intel tells me they r in another location.
    Whereever they are, even the US ship commander and Obama is playing along the confused game?
    Rewind back ‘ Operations Desert Storm’ and UN address of Gen Collin Powell, how the world was fed by well crafted mis-informations by world media CNN, Fox News, CNBC ( i’ ve never watched them ever again, they have lost all integrity) on Saddam and Iraq. Was Osama ever found guilty by any courts of law to warrant his murder?


    Pieter, Sydney, Australia Australia says:
    18/03/2014 at 4:59 pm
    Cuz all the western news agencies (USA, Australia, Canada, UK, etc) are owned by people who are part of covering up what’s REALLY happening in the world and keeping us all in the dark. No-one in Aust has seen this story – which I believe to be the TRUTH. The FACTS FIT! We are fed bullshit regurgitated over & over which doesn’t match the established facts. E.G. Plane “disappeared” off civilian radar yet is known to have continued flying (many) hours after. How can that happen? Only 1 known method – blocking/jamming radar signals – by AWACS military aircraft, which can also fly these planes remotely & turn off other comms systems. Who could/would? USA! If not for this “suspicious cargo” then for the 20 Freescale Semiconductor engineers who make hi-tech military equipment for the Chinese &/or Russian military, who were on board.

    Our govts DON’T act “for the good of the people”, they pander to the powers that be who actually pull the strings. Research Illuminati, secret societies, Freemasons, etc. They are the real controllers via banks, Big Pharma, big corporations. Find out what FEMA is really about. I am sooo glad I DON’T live in the USA, the shit is gonna hit the fan there one day in the not too distant future (And DFLjk & ianf won’t be laughing anymore!). Anyway, enough said, I’m ranting :-@ . I discovered this website yesterday, quite interesting http://jimstonefreelance.com/ He says he’s ex-NSA. Open your eyes, people! If the story the media are spinning doesn’t add up, look elsewhere! :)

    A recent ABI Research market study report states that Freescale owns 60% share of the Radio Frequency (RF) semiconductor device market.

    Four days after a missing flight, a patent is approved by the Patent Office for maximizing dies on a wafer. 4 of the 5 Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX. Patent is divided up on 20% increments to 5 holders. Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20%) Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20%) Freescale Semiconductor (20%) If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders equally share the dividends of the deceased if not disputed in a will. If 4 of the 5 dies, then the remaining 1 Patent holder gets 100% of the wealth of the patent. That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.

    Who owns Freescale Semiconductor ?? Jacob Rothschild through Blackstone who owns Freescale. Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all 4 Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane. Patent holders can alter the proceeds legally by passing wealth to their heirs. However, they cannot do so until the Patent is approved. So when the plane went missing, the patent had not been approved. Thus, Rothschild gets 100% of Patent once Patent holders declared deceased. Rothschild, you are an evil bastard

    It is totally plausible, but my intel tells me they r in another location.
    Whereever they are, even the US ship commander and Obama is playing along the confused game?
    Rewind back ‘ Operations Desert Storm’ and UN address of Gen Collin Powell, how the world was fed by well crafted mis-informations by world media CNN, Fox News, CNBC ( i’ ve never watched them ever again, they have lost all integrity) on Saddam and Iraq. Was Osama ever found guilty by any courts of law to warrant his murder?

    blame game

    The Vanishing of MH370 was largely facilitated by NSF Diego Garcia and flown escortedly thru the US East Coast

    Diego Garcia is notoriously for the CIA secret prisons and detainees

    Suspected black sites
    * Salt Pit
    * Dark Prison
    * Diego Garcia
    * Temara interrogation centre
    * Ain Aouda
    * Stare Kiejkuty
    * Szczytno-Szymany
    * Mihail Koga(lniceanu
    * Camp Nama
    * Camp Eggers
    * Strawberry Fields (Guantanamo)
    * Black Jail

    Held in the Salt Pit
    * Khalid El-Masri
    * Laid Saidi
    * Gul Rahman1

    Held in the dark prison
    * Jamil el Banna
    * Abd al-Salam Ali al-Hila
    * Bisher Amin Khalil al-Rawi
    * Hassan bin Attash
    * Laid Saidi
    * Binyam Mohammed
    * Musab Omar Ali Al Mudwani
    * Walid al Qadasi

    See also
    * Enhanced interrogation techniques
    * Ghost detainees
    * Waterboarding
    * Destruction of interrogation tapes

    NSF: Naval Support Facility

    The MH370 Passengers Manifest (PAX List)
    166,45,Chinese Taipei,CHUANG/HSIULINGMS
    223,39,New Zealander,WEEKS/PAULMR
    224,50,New Zealander,WANG/XIMIN

    4,ANDREW NARI,Malaysian,
    5,GOH SOCK LAY,Malaysian,
    6,TAN SER KUIN,Malaysian,
    10,NG YAR CHIEN,Malaysian,
    11,FOONG WAI YUENG,Malaysian,
    12,TAN SIZE HIANG,Malaysian,

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:08 PM on 2014/03/22 Permalink  

    Boeing has confirmed that MH370 keep on flying for at least 5 hours thru the sending of 7 pings after it vanished from Malaysian radars


    Satellite Data Reveal Route of Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane
    Jetliner ‘Pinged’ Satellites With Location, Altitude for Hours After Disappearance

    Updated March 14, 2014 5:57 a.m. ET

    WSJ’s Andy Pasztor has been reporting on Flight MH370 since it disappeared. Here he explains how a plane can still transmit “pings” that allow investigators to track it even after its main tracking systems — or transponders — are shut off.

    Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -2.08% Malaysian Airline System Bhd Malaysia RM0.23 -0.01 -2.08% March 24, 2014 4:44 pm Volume : 11.66M P/E Ratio N/A Market Cap RM4.01 Billion Dividend Yield N/A Rev. per Employee N/A 03/24/14 Pilot’s Family Is Realistic Bu… 03/24/14 Chinese Planes Searching for F… 03/23/14 Investigators Still Can’t Expl… More quote details and news » 3786.KU in Your Value Your Change Short position ‘ missing jet transmitted its location repeatedly to satellites over the course of five hours after it disappeared from radar, people briefed on the matter said, as searchers zeroed in on new target areas hundreds of miles west of the plane’s original course.

    India has expanded its search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 to include the Bay of Bengal. The WSJ’s Deborah Kan speaks with WSJ reporter Eric Bellman about the latest additions to the search effort.

    The satellites also received speed and altitude information about the plane from its intermittent “pings,” the people said. The final ping was sent from over water, at what one of these people called a normal cruising altitude. They added that it was unclear why the pings stopped. One of the people, an industry official, said it was possible that the system sending them had been disabled by someone on board.

    The people, who included a military official, the industry official and others, declined to say what specific path the transmissions revealed. But the U.S. planned to move surveillance planes into an area of the Indian Ocean 1,000 miles or more west of the Malay peninsula where the plane took off, said Cmdr. William Marks, the spokesman for the U.S. Seventh Fleet. (Follow the latest developments in the search for missing Flight 370.)

    He said the destroyer USS Kidd would move through the Strait of Malacca, on Malaysia’s west coast, and stay at its northwest entrance. Malaysia, which is overseeing the search effort, directed Indian forces to a specific set of coordinates in the Andaman Sea, northwest of the Malay peninsula, an Indian official said Thursday. “There was no specified rationale behind looking in those areas, but a detailed list was provided late Wednesday evening,” the Indian official said.

    The automatic pings, or attempts to link up with satellites operated by Inmarsat PLC, occurred a number of times after Flight 370’s last verified position, the people briefed on the situation said, indicating that at least through those five hours, the Boeing Co. BA -0.93% Boeing Co. U.S.: NYSE $122.58 -1.15 -0.93% March 21, 2014 4:03 pm Volume (Delayed 15m) : 7.80M AFTER HOURS $122.84 +0.26 +0.21% March 21, 2014 7:28 pm Volume (Delayed 15m): 177,914 P/E Ratio 20.31 Market Cap $90.35 Billion Dividend Yield 2.38% Rev. per Employee $514,388 03/23/14 Bird Hits Malaysia Airlines Fl… 03/22/14 Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370… 03/21/14 India Sends Planes, Warships t… More quote details and news » BA in Your Value Your Change Short position 777 carrying 239 people remained intact and hadn’t been destroyed in a crash, act of sabotage or explosion.

    Malaysia Airlines said it hadn’t received any such data. According to Boeing, the plane’s manufacturer, the airline didn’t purchase a package through Boeing to monitor its airplanes’ data through the satellite system.

    Malaysia Airlines said Friday that it has the required maintenance program in place for its Boeing 777, without elaborating.

    If the plane remained airborne for the entire five hours, it could have flown more than 2,200 nautical miles from its last confirmed position over the Gulf of Thailand, the people said.

    U.S. aviation investigators said they were analyzing the satellite transmissions to determine whether they can glean information about the plane’s ultimate location or status. The transmissions were sent via onboard technology designed to send routine maintenance and system-monitoring data back to the ground via satellite links, according to the people familiar with the matter.

    Muslims pray for the passengers of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 at Jame’asr Hassanil Bolkiah Mosque in Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei, on Thursday. Reuters

    Among the possible scenarios investigators said they are now considering is whether the jet may have landed at any point during the five-hour period under scrutiny, or whether it ultimately crashed.

    The people said aviation investigators are exploring the possibility that someone on the plane may have intentionally disabled two other automated communication systems in an attempt to avoid detection. One system is the transponders, which transmit to ground radar stations information on the plane’s identity, location and altitude, and another system that collects and transmits data about several of the plane’s key systems.

    The widebody jet was scheduled to fly overnight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur in the predawn hours of March 8. Its transponders last communicated with Malaysian civilian radar about an hour after takeoff.

    Former FBI agent Chris Voss joins the News Hub to discuss U.S. investigators’ suspicions that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for four hours after vanishing from civilian air-traffic control radar.

    After the plane dropped off civilian radar screens, two people said, the satellite link operated in a kind of standby mode for several hours and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions didn’t include data about any of the plane’s critical systems, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying at least a significant portion of that time. All of the people said the transmissions included detailed information about the plane’s location, speed and bearing.

    The transmissions, one person said, were comparable to the plane “saying I’m here, I’m ready to send data.”

    The uncertainty about where the plane was headed, and why it apparently continued flying so long without working transponders and other communication links, has raised theories among investigators that the aircraft may have been commandeered for reasons that remain unclear to U.S. authorities.

    At one briefing, according to one of the people, officials were told that investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted “with the intention of using it later for another purpose.”

    As authorities scramble to analyze and understand all of the transmissions from the missing 777, the situation continues to change rapidly. Some people briefed on the issue initially described the transmissions as information that had been relayed from onboard monitoring systems embedded in the two Rolls-Royce PLC Trent 800 engines, not the idling satellite communications system.

    Write to Jon Ostrower at jon.ostrower@wsj.com, Andy Pasztor at andy.pasztor@wsj.com and Julian E. Barnes at julian.barnes@wsj.com


    WSJ: Last ping from MH370 was after 5 hours and over water
    Ben Sandilands | Mar 14, 2014 11:57AM | EMAIL | PRINT

    In a sensational development the Wall Street Journal reports that the last satellite ‘ping’ from missing 777 flying Malayasia Airlines flight MH370 came at least five hours after take off at a normal cruising altitude over water.

    The story doesn’t identify the location of those ‘pings’ emanating from the flight, with 239 people on board, which disappeared early on Saturday morning 8 March.

    However it makes the denials from Malaysia’s authorities look false and misleading.

    At this early stage, it is important to keep in mind that the jet may not have flown in a straight line from where it was last known to be 42 minutes after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur, at 35,000 feet over the Gulf of Thailand, heading as planned for Vietnam and then onwards to Beijing.

    The course followed may have been erratic. We just don’t know yet, although it is very likely, intelligence in the US or China may well know where it went with considerable precision.

    Today’s earlier announcement by the White House that warships are being deployed to the Indian Ocean because of information that the 777-200 may have crashed into it somewhere to the east of India is now highly significant.



    Web site back up
    MAJOR UPDATES TO THIS STORY ARE ON THE HOME PAGE http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/index.html


    Malaysian military BACKED DOWN, BUT


    The engines on flight 377 remained connected to satellites as part of a Boeing maintenance routine, and Boeing has confirmed the aircraft remained flying for five full hours after it “vanished” from radar. Obviously the Malaysian military really did track this plane as they originally stated. Someone forced them to back down, only to have Boeing blow it wide open once and for all. And THIS is probably why the Malaysian military forgot all about how they tracked it to the strait of Malacca. Too late, the genie is OUT OF THE BOTTLE.



    There is a lot of new stuff below this, don’t miss it!

    Malaysian airlines flight 377 has been provably hijacked by an AWACS plane. This is outlined in the updates below.

    The Malaysian military tracked this plane for a full hour with military radar after it “vanished from civilian radar because “the transponders were switched off” (B.S.) radar is radar, it does not need a “transponder” to track a plane and they can eat dog poo. And Awacs would have shut down any transponder for a plane kidnapping anyway, it took no terrorist to do it.

    ANYWAY, the plane did a u-turn and was “last spotted” on the other side of Malaysia. They made the mistake of saying it was “flying low” when it was still at 29,500 feet, far higher than needed to show on radar, to deceive people into believing THAT is why it “vanished” from radar. A whole bunch of lies were hatched about how it disappeared from civilian radar because “the transponder was switched off” but RADAR IS RADAR AND ONLY COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE TRANSPONDERS, PRIVATE PLANES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE TRANSPONDERS. Radar is there to prevent private planes that have no transponders from hitting commercial ones among other things, and if radar can see a private plane that has no transponder it certainly can see a huge jumbo jet. So you can take the transponder lies and trash them.

    But the plane DID disappear from civilian radar even though military radar tracked it for a now admitted full hour longer.

    What could make a plane disappear from civilian radar while at 36,000 feet yet still be visible on military radar? ONE THING, and it looks like a UFO (as some have speculated) only it’s attached to a boeing jet – the antenna on a U.S. Air Force AWACS plane. The fact that this missing jet vanished from civilian radar yet remained visible on more robust military radars proves well enough for me that this indeed was an AWACS hijacking, just like we saw on 9/11 where AWACS planes were seen on video observing if not controlling the crashes into the twin towers. Once the plane flew far enough West, Awacs was obviously enough to jam both civilian and military radars, probably because they entered a zone where the angle of both incoming signals allowed for their simultaneous cancellation. That is where the plane finally “vanished” forever, an hour after the “official” vanishing act. The final vanish happened while at 29,500 feet. Though AWACS was originally released as a radar platform there are many variants of awacs type planes now that serve many types of radio oriented missions including jamming and takeover, and they all have the same antenna dome.

    In this scenario, we now have: The plane did a u-turn and flew the other way for a now admitted full hour UPDATE: FIVE hours. THAT supports the Awacs story.

    Obvious fake photoshopping of “terrorists”. THAT supports the Awacs story.

    Cell phones still ringing, which would only be possible with a safe landing. THAT supports the Awacs story

    Missing black boxes. THAT supports the Awacs story (the plane is obviously intact)

    A reason to electronically hijack the airplane – 20 top people from a semiconductor firm that works defense, with employees working for countries that are not allies yet VERY powerful – THAT supports the Awacs story

    And the GRAND FINALE: PLANE DISAPPEARS FROM CIVILIAN RADARS WHILE REMAINING VISIBLE ON MILITARY RADARS. THAT supports the Awacs story and pushes it to the forefront of logic like a tsunami on a beach umbrella, if THAT does not raise a few eyebrows people are sleeping.
    And I’d have to say the CIA’s obvious pushing of B.S. regarding this supports the Awacs story as well; If this plane shows up somewhere in pieces now, it was electronically hijacked by an AWACS plane – the same type seen on 9/11, and the people were offloaded and questioned (engineers probably waterboarded for defense secrets). IF that plane shows up in pieces now it happened last night, not three days ago FINAL ANSWER.

    UPDATE: Exact logic sequence for proving the U.S. air force hijacked the Malaysian airlines flight.

    1. Absent an awacs type system which can precisely monitor a received signal and spoof a return signal (or phase cancel it) you cannot disappear a non stealth aluminum skinned plane from ANY radar system. After vanishing from civilian radars, it remained on military radars that would work better against AWACS. That pretty much says it all.

    2. Iran is an ally of Russia. Russia has Awacs type systems, but would not try to frame up Iran in a terror plot with a fake passport story supported by idiotically faked photos. Russia did not do this.

    3. China and Malaysia also have Awacs type systems. Since it was a Malaysian plane flying with Chinese engineers, it is safe to rationalize out that neither China nor Malaysia did this.

    4. Though the engineers on the plane also worked with stealth technologies such as Awacs, it takes a huge UFO shaped antenna to make such systems work, and Malaysian passenger jets do not have them as a standard feature. This was not a stunt played by Freescale Semiconductors.

    5. Israel wants war with Iran, and the CIA hatching a terror plot with horribly faked photos stands in the evidence pool against the U.S. air force, which is their sex slave.

    6. The obvious motive was military, and a real tie in was the fact that the plane disappeared from civilian radar while at full cruising altitude, but not the military radars. In this case the air force had to choose which radar they would spoof with Awacs (there is extreme difficulty with spoofing more than one system simultaneously unless there is a lucky alignment of signals) and they just hoped the military would not catch on. ONE PROBLEM, the Malaysian military was not as inept as the Air Force thought. PLAN FAILURE.

    7. The Iranian terror plot fits the logic tree well. Since the photos were obviously faked, WHO WOULD DO THAT? WHO WANTS WAR WITH IRAN? No brainer there.

    8. The cell phones are ringing, and the only organization in the world that can say where they are is the NSA. WHY THE SILENCE?

    logic sequence output: Because the plane was hijacked electronically by those who keep the NSA funded and the NSA has been told to SHUT UP. If those phones were in lost baggage, the NSA would have said so RIGHT AWAY, and even the airline company would have figured it out by now, found the bags, heard the phones ringing and said, OH, WE KNOW WHY THEY RING. And the phones are not dead ringing as can happen with some american carriers, because on one occasion one of the phones was picked up and hung up without anything being said. But NOPE, NOTHING on this from the NSA, which means those phones are ringing on a runway somewhere, and the NSA knows EXACTLY WHERE. Yet they still support the CIA, which is doing it’s best to hatch a B.S. terror plot about a couple Iranians with fake photos and THERE IS YOUR ANSWER, AMERICA HAS THAT PLANE AND IS PROBABLY WATERBOARDING THE FREESCALE ENGINEERS RIGHT NOW, EXTRACTING CHINESE MILITARY SECRETS. If the plane is now “found” in pieces it will mean “they” gave up on the B.S. story line and decided to ditch it somewhere rather than use it on the Petronas towers or the Sears tower.

    The hijacking story won’t work now that we know the Malaysian military was able to track the plane because a hijacker cannot switch off a radar system 500 miles away and cannot prevent the plane from being found on radar wherever it went to, ONLY AWACS COULD.

    The shills are panicking trying to prop up and support the “transponder” lie. Here is a response I posted to a shill that pretty much says it all:

    I am not unaware of the situation with private aircraft. I have seen at least a dozen and NOT A SINGLE ONE had a transponder. Your claim that most private aircraft have transponders is a lie.

    There was no “primary” or “secondary” radar. The transponder only identifies the craft that is being reflected on active radar.

    I believe you told the most plausible lie people would ever believe, but you forgot something, I am former NSA and can call bullshit on practically anything.

    You cannot tell me that the airport did not have primary active radar systems in Malaysia, we are not talking LaPaz Bolivia even, and even La Paz has active radar. Any city in America with a population over 50,000 will have an airport with active radar. You are implying that a 777 jet took off from an airstrip in an advanced country that was laid out on a dirt path intersecting goat trails and therefore had to transmit back to tell the airport where it was. What a load of B.S.

    FOR THE RECORD: THE PLANE VANISHED FROM ACTIVE AIRPORT RADAR. THE FACT THAT THE TRANSPONDER SWITCHED OFF AT THE SAME TIME IT VANISHED FROM ACTIVE AIRPORT RADAR PROVES AWACS EVEN MORE, I KNOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT AWACS CAN’T JAM A TRANSPONDER BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY WORK DEFENSE YOURSELF BUT TRUTH BE TOLD, THAT OUTCOME IS AN OBVIOUS ONE and to the other shills, AWACS type planes have many functions and one of them is JAMMING EVERYTHING. AWACS planes have amazing signal jamming capabilities, this is so well established fact that you are going to have to shill even Pakistani agricultural web sites to front the lie that AWACS is not used for jamming. Give up on that one, even goat herders are not that stupid.

    Blockbuster UPDATE:
    BLOCKBUSTER UPDATE: FAKE PASSPORT GUYS WERE PHOTOSHOPPED. Take a look at their legs. HA HA HA – that’s a bad screw up. Here is the original article this picture appeared in, Needless to say, I preserved this one.

    Caption below original photo: “A Malaysian police official displays photographs of the two men who boarded the Malaysia Airlines MH370 flight using stolen European passports to the media at a hotel near Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Sepang on March 11, 2014. — PHOTO: AFP” Now that’s an absolute LAUGH. That’s as bad as the blood spatters going the wrong way at the bat man shooting.

    Get while the getting is good, they are going to “fix this” ASAP.

    Too late, this entire article including comments below is now preserved and will post tomorrow in it’s full glory on this web site so you can just save it as a Jpeg tomorrow. That way the black hole of censorship won’t suck this one beyond the event horizon.

    My final word on Malaysia airlines

    At least until the plane is found.

    Freescale semiconductor is actually a large company with many divisions. The most credible information out there points to two possibilities with one central binding theme -

    The central binding theme is that these employees did not work in the energy sector, they worked with advanced military technologies. One branch was for data security and may have been attempting to circumvent the NSA, and the other branch worked in cloaking technology for stealth applications.

    When I was at the NSA, they very clearly stated that the best engineering teams out there consisted of 4 or 5 people and NO MORE. So the plane obviously would not have all people from freescale working on the same team. There would have been, with 20 employees, 4 or 5 separate engineering teams aboard assigned to different tasks. This could be why there are so many different explanations for what all the employees actually did, and you know they had to at least be engineers because Freescale would not load floor sweepers or assemblers onto a jet.

    My best guess is that the people worked in defense. And I have a pretty good reason for thinking so – Malaysia is an amazingly advanced country. You might not think so because you have never been told but Malaysia is in fact so advanced a country that ever since the early 90’s Malaysia has made many and at times ALL processors for both Intel and AMD. How much higher than that can you get?

    So here we have two countries, Malaysia and China, with a top flight electronics engineering firm, Freescale semiconductor, and 20 missing engineers on a vanished plane. I’d say this was probably a military takedown by the United States. And I’d bet the plane was remote hijacked and flown to a runway somewhere. THAT is why the cell phones still ring and you can bet the black op NSA knows exactly where they are. All the modern planes can be taken over via remote, they all have back doors now and the NSA is there only to rape and rob you, they are NOT your friends, you will NOT be told where this plane is.

    The plane vanishing from radar had nothing to do with the plane’s electronics going dead, it most likely had a LOT more to do with an AWACS plane making it vanish from radar and taking it over. AWACS can do that. And if the plane’s electronics went dead that would NOT make it vanish from radar, I don’t know where all the stupidity on this topic evolved, MYLAR BALLOONS HAVE NO ELECTRONICS, AND THEY SHOW UP ON RADAR CLEAR AS DAY. AIRPLANES DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A TRANSPONDER FOR RADAR TO WORK AT ALL. THE TRANSPONDER IS ONLY FOR TELLING GROUND CONTROL THE NAME OF THE AIRPLANE. DEAD ELECTRONICS ON A PLANE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT BEING ON RADAR. if you read an article saying the plane vanished because it’s transponder switched off, run from the writer as fast as your brain can move, that writer is either too stupid to pay attention to or fake.

    SO, we have a plane that vanished from radar while at altitude. No tracking pieces falling, no descent into the sea, NADA, it just VANISHED. PIECES OR IT DID NOT HAPPEN AND IT WAS INSTEAD AWACS AND AN ELECTRONIC HIJACKING FOR MILITARY PURPOSES. Until this plane turns up in the jungle it’s in once piece on a runway somewhere, probably an American runway on one of the many bases America has everywhere and the engineers are being debriefed and told about the new life they are going to have, their families are going to have, or they are dead.

    And the punch line? If this is what really happened, the Zioclan just got a free plane they can use to hit the Sears Tower. NEVER FORGET THAT.

    The web won’t be around forever, get the truth in print. Uncensored magazine is perfect for this:

    The Links
    Here is the original article this picture appeared in


  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:07 PM on 2014/03/22 Permalink  

    Boeing has the patented technology to remote control the MH370 to be hijacked by the US Government


    Diagrams: Boeing patents anti-terrorism auto-land system for hijacked airliners
    By: John Croft, Washington DC
    Source: Flightglobal.com
    12:42 1 Dec 2006

    Boeing last week received a US patent for a system that, once activated, removes all control from pilots to automatically return a commercial airliner to a predetermined landing location.

    The “uninterruptible” autopilot would be activated – either by pilots, by onboard sensors, or even remotely via radio or satellite links by government agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency, if terrorists attempt to gain control of a flight deck.

    Boeing says: “We are constantly studying ways we can enhance the safety, security and effiecency of the world’s airline fleet.”

    “There is a need in the industry for a technique that conclusively prevents unauthorised persons for gaining access to the controls of the vehicle and therefore threatening the safety of the passengers onboard the vehicle, and/or other people in the path of travel of the vehicle, thereby decreasing the amount of destruction individuals onboard the vehicle would be capable of causing,” the patent authors write. “In particular, there is a need for a technique that ensures the continuation of the desired path of travel of a vehicle by removing any type of human decision process that may be influenced by the circumstances of the situation, including threats or further violence onboard the vehicle.”

    According to the patent, existing preventative measures are less than fullproof – pilots can decide to open the lockable, bullet-proof cockpit doors and federal air marshals can be overpowered and de-armed. Boeing’s alternative has an onboard processor that once activated, disallows pilot inputs and prevents anyone on board from interrupting an emergency landing plan that can be predefined or radioed to the aircraft by airline or government controllers and carried out by the aircraft’s guidance and control system. To make it fully independent, the system has its own power supply, independent of the aircraft’s circuit breakers. The aircraft remains in automatic mode until after landing, when mechanics or government security operatives are called in to disengage the system.

    Boeing envisions several methods of activating the system. Options include manual switches for pilots to hit, or possibly force sensors on the cockpit door that would trip the anti-terror mode if a minimum force threshold were crossed, for instance if someone were trying to break down the door. Another option is a remote link whereby airline or government workers in ground facilities would monitor and aircraft and command the automatic control mode “once it is determined that the security of the air vehicle is in jeopardy.” Radio links could also be used to inform ground facilities and nearby aircraft that an aircraft has been placed in the automatic flight mode.

    It’s unclear if the Boeing work is related to last week’s issuance of a $1.9 million US Federal Aviation Administration contract to Raytheon for an Advanced Route Evaluation System (ARES). According to Raytheon, ARES will perform risk analysis on aviation routes to help planners determine the best routes for aircraft to use during emergencies.”

    Aside from the safety and security aspects of having such a system, Boeing sees it as a preventative measure: “Once the automatic control system provided by the present invention is initiated, no one on board the air vehicle is capable controlling the flight to the air vehicle, such that it would be useless for anyone to threaten violence in order to gain control the air vehicle.”


    Malaysia Airlines releases passenger list of flight MH370
    03-08-2014 13:49 BJT

    Special Report:Malaysia Airlines Plane Bound for Beijing Goes Missing

    A Malaysian passenger plane carrying 239 people, including 227 passengers and 12 crew members, has lost contact with air traffic control after leaving Malaysia’s capital Kuala Lumpur, the carrier said Saturday.

    Malaysia Airlines said flight MH370, a Boeing 777-200, lost touch with Subang Air Traffic Control around 02:40 a.m. local time Saturday morning (1840 GMT Friday). The passengers were of 13 different nationalities, it added.

    An official from the Chinese Embassy in Malaysia told Xinhua there were 153 Chinese nationals aboard, including one infant.

    The aircraft left Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 00:41 a.m. (1641 GMT Friday) and was expected to land in Beijing at 06:30 a.m. (2230 GMT Friday).

    Contact number for most update situation:
    Malaysia Airlines: 006037884-1234;
    Media contact number: 006038777-5777;
    Chinese Embassy in Malaysia :0065322531;
    Embassy of Malaysia in China :01065322531,32,33.
    Malaysia Airlines Beijing office :010-65052681.


    In full: Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 passenger list
    PUBLISHED : Saturday, 08 March, 2014, 9:10pm
    UPDATED : Sunday, 09 March, 2014, 12:57pm

    The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER that disappeared from air traffic control screens Saturday, taking off from Roissy-Charles de Gaulle Airport in France. Photo: AP

    A full list of passengers and crew on board a missing Malaysian Airlines passenger jet was released by the company on Saturday evening.

    A spokesman for the airline said: “We would like to inform everyone that these are the people onboard our aircraft. All the families and next of kin have been informed.”

    It emerged on Saturday night that Luigi Maraldi and Christan Kozel did not board the flight despite being listed on the manifest. The Italian and Austrian foreign ministries confirmed the two had reported their passports stolen.

    Hijack theory probed as officials say ‘no debris from Malaysia Airlines flight has been confirmed’
    Mar 11, 2014

    Warning of ‘possible terrorist attack on China’ received by Taiwan six days before Malaysia Airlines
    Mar 11, 2014


    Live: FBI fears four passengers on missing Malaysian jet used stolen passports as ‘mid-air disintegration’ theory investigated
    By Jessica Best, Chris Richards, Richard Hartley-Parkinson, Mar 11, 2014 06:01

    It comes as Interpol admitted there was “great concern” that people on the flight had gone through such flimsy security checks

    6:01 am
    Here’s the final extract of Malaysia Airlines’ latest statement following the disappearance of Flight MH370….
    “Malaysia Airlines has a special task force to take care of families.
    “Mercy Malaysia and Tzu Chi and others are also helping Malaysia Airlines by providing special psychological counseling to families and also the MH crew.
    “The Chinese government officials in Malaysia are also working closely with Malaysia Airlines.
    “A representative from the embassy is stationed at the Emergency Operations Centre to assist with the emergency management and matters related to families in Kuala Lumpur.
    “In Beijing, the Prime Minister’s special envoy to China, Tan Sri Ong Ka Ting is there to assist and coordinate all operational matters with Malaysia Airlines.
    “We regret and empathise with the families and we will do whatever we can to ensure that all basic needs, comfort, psychological support are delivered.
    “We are as anxious as the families to know the status of their loved ones.
    “To the families of the crew on-board MH370, we share your pain and anxiety.
    “They are of the MAS family and we are deeply affected by this unfortunate incident.
    “Malaysia Airlines reiterates that it will continue to be transparent in communicating with the general public via the media on all matters affecting MH370.”

    5:27 am
    More here from Malaysia Airlines’ latest press statement…
    “The B777-200 aircraft that operated MH370 underwent maintenance on February 23, 2014, 12 days before this particular flight on March 8, 2014.
    “The next check is due on June 19, 2014.
    “The maintenance was conducted at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport hangar and there were no issues on the health of the aircraft.
    “The aircraft was delivered to Malaysia Airlines in 2002 and have since recorded 53,465.21 hours with a total of 7525 cycles.
    “All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) which transmits data automatically.
    “Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed.”

    5:00 am
    Malaysia Airlines has released a statement as the search for missing Flight MH370 enters a fourth day.
    It said: “The search and rescue teams (SAR) have expanded the scope beyond the flight path to the West Peninsular of Malaysia at the Straits of Malacca.
    “The authorities are looking at a possibility of an attempt made by MH370 to turn back to Subang.
    “All angles are being looked at.
    “We are not ruling out any possibilities.
    The mission is aided by various countries namely Australia, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines and the United States of America.
    “The assets deployed to cover the search and rescue is extensive.
    “In total there are nine aircraft and 24 vessels deployed on this mission.
    “Apart from the search in the sea, search on land in between these areas is also conducted.
    “The search and rescue teams have analysed debris and oil slick found in the waters.
    “It is confirmed that it does not belong to MH370.”

    4:29 am
    The Malaysian authorities have commenced an internal investigation into the country’s Immigration Department after it emerged two passengers on board missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 were using fake passports.
    Home Minister Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamid said the probe would focus on immigration staff at Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA), from where the jetliner took off.
    “We will conduct an internal probe, particularly on the officers, who were on duty at the KLIA Immigration counter during flight MH370,” he said.

    3:49 am
    The Malaysian Parliament has staged a moment of silence in prayer for the passengers and crew of MH370 and their families.
    The sombre event took place at the beginning of the second session of the 13th Parliament today.
    The mood was sombre with speaker Tan Sri Pandikar Amin Mulia saying: “The Parliament pray and hope that everyone will be strong and persevere in facing this challenge.”

    3:02 am
    The Chinese authorities have said they will provide legal aid for the relatives of the passengers on board missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.
    Details emerged on Twitter, in a tweet issued by China’s Xinhua News Agency….
    Beijing will provide legal aid for missing #MH370 plane passengers’ relatives: government authorities pic.twitter.com/HOMx09bhvE

    • China Xinhua News (@XHNews) March 10, 2014

    2:34 am
    China has deployed 10 satellites to help in the massive air and sea search for a missing Malaysian airliner, the People’s Liberation Army Daily said.
    The satellites will use high-resolution earth imaging capabilities, visible light imaging and other technologies to “support and assist in the search and rescue operations for the Malaysian Airlines aircraft”, the newspaper said in an article that was also carried on the defence ministry’s website.
    Dozens of ships and aircraft from 10 countries scoured the seas around Malaysia and south of Vietnam as questions mounted over possible security lapses and whether a bomb or hijacking attempt could have brought down the Boeing 777-200ER which took off from the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur.
    China has urged Malaysia to speed up the search for the plane.
    About two-thirds of the 227 passengers and 12 crew now presumed to have died aboard the plane were Chinese.
    The Chinese satellites will also help in weather monitoring, communication and search operations in the area where the plane disappeared, the newspaper said.
    China will also strengthen the Beidou navigation system’s satellite monitoring capabilities to “provide reliable navigation for the rescue operations and communication support”.

    2:11 am
    Sorry to disappoint you readers but the press briefing scheduled for 01.55am GMT has been postponed.
    Officials have given no reason for this postponement, as this photograph posted on Twitter by reporter Michael Sin shows….
    Interesting. MT @cnbcsri Malaysia Airlines MH370 briefing scheduled 10 am KL local time postponed, no reason given pic.twitter.com/leTTOps8q8

    • Michael Sin (@MichaelSin_) March 11, 2014

    1:56 am
    Officials in Malaysia are preparing to update the world’s press on the hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.
    To watch a live feed of the press conference in Sepang, Malaysia, follow the link below….


    1:53 am
    The son of an Indian politician killed in an air crash in 1973 is one of the 227 passengers feared dead after the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.
    The family of Canadian-Indian Muktesh Mukherjee, 42, are worried he has shared the same fate as his grandfather Mohan Kumaramangalam, Indira Gandhi’s steel and mines minister, who died on Indian Airlines flight 440 which crashed close to New Delhi four decades ago, killing 48 of the 65 passengers on board.
    Mr Mukherjee, vice-president of operations in China for Pennsylvania-based XCoal Energy and Resources, was one of five Indians on the flight.

    1:22 am
    A senior Malaysian police official has revealed that people armed with explosives and carrying false identity papers had tried to fly out of Kuala Lumpur in the past.
    He said investigations were focused on two passengers who were on the missing plane with stolen passports.
    “We have stopped men with false or stolen passports and carrying explosives, who have tried to get past KLIA (airport) security and get on to a plane,” he said.
    “There have been two or three incidents, but I will not divulge the details.”

    12:56 am
    An underwater search expert says “crucial time is passing” in the hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.
    David Gallo, who helped lead the search for the wreckage of Air France Flight 447 after that plane crashed in 2009, told CNN: “Every day that goes by, it makes the search area much, much larger.
    “Looking for wreckage and flight data recorders in the water is no easy task.
    “We’ve only explored about 7 per cent of the world beneath the sea, and there’s a reason for that.
    “It’s slow going, and it’s difficult.
    “So, with every day that passes by, crucial time is passing.”

    12:27 am
    CNN’ chief national security correspondent said the revelation that Mr Ali bought passports and tickets for the two Iranian passengers adds to concerns the loss of the Flight MH370 might have been a terrorist atrocity.
    Jim Sciutto said: “This adds to the concerns because a terrorist group would go to a fixer too.
    “They piggyback on drug smugglers and immigration smugglers, so absolutely they could go to this guy.
    “He may know nothing about it.
    “He would be just given a sum of money and told ‘get these people on an airplane, get them passports’.”

    12:05 am
    The man told BBC Persia that one of the Iranians was heading for Frankfurt, Germany, where his mother lives, while the other wanted to travel to Denmark.
    BBC Persia’s UN correspondent Bahman Kalbasi told The Telegraph that the two Iranians were “looking for a place to settle”.
    The revelation comes after it emerged a mystery Iranian called ‘Mr Ali’ bought tickets for the pair.
    The US FBI are now trying to track him down.

    12:00 am
    The two passengers travelling on stolen passports on missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 are reportedly Iranian nationals.
    An Iranian friend of one of the men told BBC Persia he hosted the pair in Kuala Lumpur after they arrived from Tehran in the days preceding their flight to Beijing.
    The source, who claimed he knew one of the men from his school days in Iran, said the duo had bought the fake passports because they wanted to migrate to Europe.
    They were travelling on passports belonging to Christian Kozel, an 30-year-old Austrian, and Luigi Maraldi, a 37-year-old Italian.
    They had bought the passports in Kuala Lumpur as well as tickets to Amsterdam, via Beijing.

    11:43 pm
    It has today emerged that up to 20 million people are flying into and out of Britain each year without being checked against Interpol’s list of stolen passports.
    The international policing organisation estimates that one billion people around the world got on a plane without being properly checked last year.
    It says that the UK and US are among the best.
    But the Home Office admitted that they only get 90 per cent of the advanced passenger information that allows them to check passports against Interpol lists.
    That works out at as many as 20 million a year.
    The Home Office said: “We have significantly increased the proportion of passengers providing this information over the last five years.
    “We are working to improve our coverage even further.
    “The National Border Targeting Centre (NBTC) runs API data through a number of watch lists including the Warnings Index and our ‘no fly’ scheme to identify those who may pose a terrorist threat from travelling or out from the UK and to take appropriate security measures.”

    11:18 pm
    The area of the Gulf of Thailand being searched for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 has been widened once more.
    A 100 nautical mile radius of the stretch of water is now being checked out for any traces of wreckage belonging to the Boeing 777 jet, which disappeared on Friday with 227 passengers and 12 crew on board.
    Three days of scouring the seas have so far failed to yield any clues.
    According to the New York Times, the widened search area includes waters over 100 miles away from the plane’s last known location between Malaysia and Vietnam.

    11:00 pm
    Boeing, which made the plane, has now joined the investigation into the crash.
    The company will work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board as a technical advisor.
    Boeing has joined the US @NTSB team as a technical advisor. Team positioned in region to offer assistance on MH370. http://t.co/eAGT1HhsSw

    • Boeing Airplanes (@BoeingAirplanes) March 10, 2014

    10:45 pm
    Frustrations are mounting in Malaysia, according to a paper from the region, as the search for the missing plane fails to find any trace.
    The New Strait Times said that emotions were running high with China blaming Malaysia over a lack of information and relatives expressing anger at all sides, criticising them for the response.
    The Global Times in China said: “The Malaysian side cannot shirk its responsibility. The initial response from Malaysia was not swift enough”.
    That paper also said there was a sighting of a floating yellow object that could have been a life raft. However, it turned out to be a “moss-covered cap of a cable reel”.

    10:30 pm
    Commander Mark Williams from the U.S. Navy’s 7th fleet has praised the Malaysian government for its response to the missing flight.
    He told CNN: “They’re doing a very good job of coordinating the international effort.
    “It’s just a huge area the best we can do is get in our sector and wait for the next tasking.”
    Searching on land has now been stopped and the operation will concentrate solely on the seas around Malaysia.


    Missing Malaysian Airlines plane: How can a jet just disappear? It’s not hard
    Eileen Ng, Kristen Gelineau and Scott Mayerowitz, March 11, 2014 – 10:30AM

    China says it has sent security agents to help speed up an investigation into the misuse of passports on the Malaysia Airlines jetliner that went missing with 239 people on board.

    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonising it can be to try to find something lost in them.

    It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday’s flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

    Military personnel work within the cockpit of a helicopter belonging to the Vietnamese air force during the search and rescue mission. Photo: Reuters

    “The world is a big place,” said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. “If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it’s not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?”

    Amid the confusion, officials involved in the search say the Malaysian jet may have made a U-turn, adding one more level of uncertainty to the effort to find it. They even suggest that the plane could be hundreds of kilometres from where it was last detected.

    Aviation experts say the plane will be found – eventually. Since the start of the jet age in 1958, only a handful of jets have gone missing and not been found.

    “I’m absolutely confident that we will find this airplane,” Captain John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems, said on Monday. The modern pace of communications, where GPS features in our cars and smartphones tell us our location at any given moment, has set unreal expectations. “This is not the first time we have had to wait a few days to find the wreckage.”

    Based on what he’s heard, Captain Cox believes it’s increasingly clear that the plane somehow veered from its normal flight path. He said that after the plane disappeared from radar, it must have been “intact and flew for some period of time. Beyond that, it’s all speculation.” If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, “we would have found it by now.”

    MH370, please pick up
    Phones belonging to passengers on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 have been ringing when called by family members, but does this mean the phones are in active service?

    Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, whose agency is leading a multinational effort to find the Boeing 777, said more than 1000 people and at least 34 planes and 40 ships were searching a radius of 185 kilometres around the last known location of Flight MH370. No signal has been detected since early on Saturday morning, when the plane was at its cruising altitude and showed no sign of trouble.

    Mr Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane’s last known location. Mr Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, “There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can’t.”

    Some aviation experts are already calling for airlines to update their cockpit technology to provide a constant stream of data – via satellites – back to the ground. Information about key system operations is already recorded on the flight data and voice recorders – the so-called black boxes – but as this crash shows is not immediately available. Such satellite uplinks would be costly and the benefit is debated.

    Just about every major jet to disappear in the modern era has eventually been found. The rare exceptions didn’t involve passengers.

    In September 1990, a Boeing 727 owned by Faucett Airlines of Peru was ditched into the North Atlantic after running out of fuel on its way to Miami. The accident was attributed to poor pilot planning and the wreck was never recovered.

    More mysterious was the disappearance of another 727 in Africa. It was being used to transport diesel fuel to diamond mines. The owners had numerous financial problems and one day, just before sunset, the plane took off without clearance and with its transponder turned off. It is believed to have crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. One theory, never proven, is that it was stolen so the owner could collect insurance.

    “I can’t think of a water crash in the jet age that hasn’t been solved ,” said Scott Hamilton, managing director of aviation consultancy Leeham Co.

    The Malaysia Airlines jet had been headed from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. The 239 people aboard were mostly from China. In Beijing, passengers’ relatives have complained that the airline has not been forthcoming with information, and that they’ve had to rely on news reports.

    Some of those reports, however, have led to dead ends. Those false alarms appeared to leave searchers with little to go on.

    The flight “was very high up in the air early in the morning, when it was still dark,” Mr Azharuddin said. “We have no witnesses on the ground and nobody on the plane can be contacted. The area is over the sea, so it’s not as easy as that. There are a lot of constraints.”

    Whether the plane broke up in midair or crashed into the water, there would be some debris.

    If the plane broke up “for some aerodynamic reason, like the wing fell off or there was a depressurisation, there’d be big chunks of wing and fuselage all over the place. So it’d be very unlikely that it would just be destroyed and turned to dust,” said Mr Smart, the aerospace engineering professor.

    He added that much of the wreckage may be at the bottom of the sea.

    The size of the debris field will be one of the first indicators of what happened, aviation experts say. A large, widespread field would signal the plane likely broke apart at a high elevation, perhaps because of a bomb or a massive airframe failure. A smaller field would indicate the plane probably fell intact, breaking up upon impact with the water.

    Discovering the debris can take days.

    A week after an Adam Air flight carrying 102 people vanished over Indonesian waters on January 1, 2007, an Indonesian navy ship detected metal on the ocean floor. But it would take another two weeks for the US Navy to pick up signals from the flight data and cockpit recorders, and seven months for the boxes to be recovered. The fuselage remains on the ocean floor, and Adam Air is now defunct.

    The Malaysian Airlines jet could be less of a challenge than the Adam Air crash in one respect: It was last tracked over much shallower water.

    But for now, the mystery is overwhelming.

    “It’s hard to imagine what could have caused it with these modern planes,” Mr Smart said.


    Was Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 Redirected to Diego Garcia?
    By Hamad Subani – March 12, 2014

    Remembering the victims of the 9-11 Cover-up

    It has now become fairly evident that the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing is not accidental. In fact, there is a strong possibility that the flight was commandeered to the US military base at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. A bizarre “extraordinary rendition”?

    Please note that this article is being expanded and updated regularly. I have decided to keep all the information in one place, as opposed to having it scattered across several different posts. So do check back. Also note that some commentators have posted very insightful information.

    Why did Flight 370 try to hide its whereabouts?

    MH370 was a 777-200 service carrying 239 passenger and crew on a regular Kuala Lumpur to Beijing service. To recap, it left KL at 12.40 am, it disappeared as a commercial radar trace at 1.22 am close to the area where such radar visibility to the Malaysia air traffic control system drops off, and was never observed as entering Vietnam controlled air space on a path intended to cross that country to the South China Sea and continue past Hong Kong toward its destination. The transponders on Flight 370 was switched off immediately after it was outside the visibility of Malaysia’s air traffic control! To quote a poster GarageYears on a forum for professional pilots,

    Turning off the transponder isn’t just a toggle or push-button, the switch is a rotary and you’d have to move it two positions to get it into the standby condition.

    This could only have been done by a compromised crew, or by hijackers. To quote another forum member Tfor2,

    1. It was a hi-jack (transponder turned off, no Mayday), and the plane was not under the control of the pilots. It flew to wherever was demanded, and something happened thereafter causing it to crash, probably from an effort to regain control (as with United 93 during events of 9/11). So it could be anywhere. An eye-witness will eventually come forward. 2. The most fearsome worry to come out of this is how come an aircraft can invade national territory without military or civil or satellite detection? This leaves a hole in the defense systems of all countries.

    To quote a professional A330 pilot,

    I think the flight deck was compromised.

    But that’s not the only sign that Flight 370 was trying to hide its whereabouts. Immediately after shutting off its transponders, Flight 370 made a U-turn and headed in the direction of Diego Garcia, crossing Malaysia in the process. If there indeed had been a massive technical failure, the crew would have tried to safely ditch the plane at sea, not return to Malaysia. And if there had been a cabin decompression, the plane would have slowly lost altitude, crashing into the Gulf of Thailand. Malaysia’s Air Force Chief General Rodzali Daud first raised the possibility that the plane had reversed course the very next day (9th March), and he was quoted by a Malay-language paper as saying the jet had been tracked hundreds of miles from its intended flight path, over the Strait of Malacca off western Malaysia, and up to 320 kilometres northwest of the Malaysian state of Penang, after which it either disappeared or Malaysian radar lost capability to track it. It was clearly flying low, as if to avoid detection by radar.

    After turning off its transponder, Flight 370 turned around and headed to the direction of Diego Garcia.

    General Daud’s statement was clearly not expected, as all the concerned governments were vigorously pedalling the notion that the plane was lost in the Gulf of Thailand, and all search and rescue efforts got misdirected to the plane’s intended route. The Communist Vietnamese government even produced some eyewitnesses that testified seeing a plane flying low off their coast. There were repeated attempts to identify any piece of floating debris in the vicinity as that of Flight 370. When mainstream media picked up General Daud’s very credible statement, he was pressured into retracting it, and has now issued a formal retraction. America’s biggest trading client, Communist China, also expressed irritation at the Malaysian government over the “confusion.” It is clear that such misdirection could not have been possible without the involvement of highly placed Malaysian officials. Nevertheless, General Daud’s statement has altered the direction of the search, which now focuses on the Andaman Sea, instead of the Gulf of Thailand. It seems there were desperate attempts to keep the search away from the West Coast of Malaysia. For example, an oil rig worker on the Vietnam coast claimed to have seen a fiery object, but the report later turned out to be untrue. To quote,

    Florian Witulski @vaitor
    Letter that was received by Vietnamese officials about a possible crash in Vietnam (unconfirmed source) – http://twitpic.com/dy1t3z
    10:49 AM – 12 Mar 2014

    Florian Witulski @vaitor
    BBC also reported about the letter but it turned out to be false information… nothing at the Ho Chi Minh coast
    4:13 PM – 12 Mar 2014

    To quote another poster Frenchwalker on the same aforementioned forum,

    Just to point out on some of the information provided by the Malaysian military last night around its last know position, more so around the fact the the aircraft descended to around 3000ft would this simply be to maintain Visual Flight Rules , cloud base in Kuala Lumpur usually sits between 3000ft and 10,000ft this would indicate the the person in command certainly had control of the Aircraft

    A possible flight path of Flight 370, from where it was last observed on radar in Penang, to Diego Garcia.

    If the plane was headed towards Diego Garcia (which is under eight hours of flying time from Kuala Lumpur), it would have been captured on Indonesian radars as well, and it was likely to have crossed over Indonesia. But unlike Malaysia, Indonesia is a defacto Globalist client state, and would immediately cover up such information. Australia also has a sophisticated radar network, but we haven’t heard from them either. Apart from radar, there is also other “live” data associated with commercial aircraft, which is not being discussed. To quote another user of the forum Davionics,

    Why has nobody confirmed/announced if there were any transmissions sent via SATCOM? Seems to be the elephant in the room – the media currently appears to have an unhealthy tunneled obsession with; radar, ads-b, voice comms, gps, black boxes, etc. Surely ACARS and engine telemetry data could shine a good dose of light on this incredibly sad fiasco. Many aircraft today also have Panasonic Avionics high-bandwidth eXconnect GCS (Global Communications Suite) to augment SATCOM.

    Investigators have now confirmed that such live data indicated that the plane continued to fly even after its last radar contact. The just won’t tell us when the data transmissions ended (which would indicate when the flight landed). To quote,

    Throughout the roughly four hours after the jet dropped from civilian radar screens, these people said, the link operated in a kind of standby mode and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions did not include data, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying. Investigators are still working to fully understand the information, according to one person briefed on the matter. The transmissions, this person said, were comparable to the plane “saying I’m here, I’m ready to send data.”

    And there is still no word about the signals from monitoring systems embedded in the plane’s Rolls-Royce PLC engines, which would have stopped when the plane landed. Diego Garcia is the strongest US military-air force base in the Indian Ocean. It served as a forwarding base in almost all American conflicts in the Gulf and in Afghanistan. It was also a transit venue for the infamous “extraordinary renditions.” It possesses formidable radar capabilities, as well as several airstrips. And large hangars that can hide aircraft. To quote a commenter on a pilot’s website who believed the plane was in Diego Garcia,

    My speculation is of this being a super-duper, super-extraordinary form of rendition.

    And most important of all, Diego Garcia has a staff who follow a code of not asking too many questions and keeping their eyes wide shut. Unlike Malaysia, there are no General Dauds in Diego Garcia, who would blurt out what they saw on military radar.

    Air Force One at Diego Garcia

    An American aircraft carrier at Diego Garcia.

    American military aircraft at Diego Garcia.

    Good Times?

    Its Official: Diego Garcia is a Strong Possibility!

    Assuming the plane landed, WNYC has produced a map showing all possible airports within the range of MH370, based on its last radar contact, and Diego Garcia is one of them!

    The red dot on the extreme south-east is the Diego Garcia airport.

    The Washington Post has published an infographic that puts Diego Garcia within four hours if its last known location, and they have taken the last known location as the place where the transponders switched off, not the place where military radars picked up the plane near Penang. If they had taken Penang as the last known location as far as radar is concerned, Diego Garcia would have probably been even closer.

    Diego Garcia is now officially within four hours range of the place where the transponders shut off!

    All possibilities are being discussed, from the Gobi desert and Kazakhstan to Pakistan and Iran. Even though the geopolitics of the Indian subcontinent and the Indochina region has resulted in several nations carefully watching their radars for enemy aircraft on a fulltime basis. Somehow they all seemed to have missed the huge plane flying without a transponder identifying it. There is absolutely no mention of Diego Garcia, except for the Malaysian Transport minister, who claims he has no confirmation yet that it landed at Diego Garcia, even though his government is looking into “all possibilities.” A Pentagon official claims to believe that the plane crashed into the Andaman Sea, north of Diego Garcia (But obviously not at Diego Garcia).

    Some conspiracy sleuths have also uncovered proof that no flights were scheduled for 3 days at Diego Garcia airport during the time MH370 went missing. All maintenance crew would likely have been on leave, so that the plane could be sneaked in undetected. On March 7th, the Facebook account of the Diego Garcia passenger terminal posted a notice that there would be no scheduled flights for the next 72 hours. This posting is still visible as of 11:38 AM 20th March 2014. The following is a screenshot.

    No scheduled flights because a very important one is scheduled to come!

    This little factoid was even tweeted about.

    jeanette @jeanettekramer
    I would like to know why Diego Garcia had no scheduled flights for 72 hours March 8th? #mh370 https://www.facebook.com/242934902443795/photos/a.609733269097288.1073742028.242934902443795/609733489097266/?type=1&theater


    3:32 AM – 19 Mar 2014

    This was also posted to the wall of the US Navy Support Facility Diego Garcia because it concerned US Navy support crew in there. The same conspiracy sleuths insist that this post along with many other posts between March 6th and March 9th were deleted.

    Why Malaysia?

    The presence of a large number of Chinese passengers on board the doomed flight is being used to strain relations between Communist China and Malaysia, and it may contribute to a future deterioration of their relationship, resulting in increased justification of Chinese presence in the region, and maybe even future Chinese aggression. This may also help explain why a Malaysian plane was targeted, as opposed to an Indonesian plane (Indonesia is already in the hands of the Globalists, and therefore never gets any brinkmanship from Communist China, which is a creation of the Globalists). Malaysia is probably the only country in the world whose recent leadership has openly criticized the IMF, Israel, the War on Terror and made claims that 9/11 was an Inside Job. Malaysia has a bustling economy, but the Globalists prefer plantation style economies, such as neighbouring Indonesia, which is completely under Globalist control. Since Malaysia cannot be subject to the so-called War on Terror unless they start openly supporting Al-Qaida, the only other alternative the Globalists have is to feed it to China, and the Panda will invite itself for lunch, Al-Qaida or not. Mainstream media has repeatedly stressed at Chinese impatience with Malaysian “incompetence.” While it is true that the present mess would not have been possible unless many Malaysian officials were compromised, so were many officials of other governments involved in the search and rescue efforts. And despite such high level corruption, the deliberately concealed fact that the plane had reversed course and moved Westwards did come out, albeit in a muffled way. It is unlikely that such disclosure would have ever happened in any of the neighbouring Globalist-dominated countries.

    Compared to Globalist dominated Indonesia, Malaysia has gotten away with prosperity. But for how long?

    Other Odd Ends

    • Initially there were reports of some passengers who did not board the plane, but then Malaysian authorities were forced to “retract” their statements. Passengers connected to the Global Elite usually receive advance warnings.
    • Flight 370 had 20 employees of Texas based Freescale Semiconductors. It is unclear whether or not the company counted the NSA among its clients. These 20 engineers were working on electronic warfare, and designing some kind of stealth plane invisible to radar! To quote Wikipedia on the company,

    In the 1960s, one of the U. S. space program’s goals was to land a man on the moon and return him safely to Earth [Not Quite!]. In 1968, NASA began manned Apollo flights that led to the first lunar landing in July 1969. Apollo 11 was particularly significant for hundreds of employees involved in designing, testing and producing its electronics. A division of Motorola, which became Freescale Semiconductor, supplied thousands of semiconductor devices, ground-based tracking and checkout equipment, and 12 on-board tracking and communications units. An “up-data link” in the Apollo’s command module received signals from Earth to relay to other on-board systems. A transponder received and transmitted voice and television signals and scientific data. [.......] and Motorola’s MPC5200 microprocessor deployed telematic systems for General Motors’ OnStar systems. [.......] In addition, a recent ABI Research market study report states that Freescale owns 60% share of the Radio Frequency (RF) semiconductor device market. [.......] Also in 2011, Freescale announced the company’s first magnetometer for location tracking in smart mobile devices.

    • Confirmation of Iranian passengers travelling on false European passports. While they have been ruled out as hijackers, the Powers That Be sometimes do use Iranians for dirty work. There was also an attempt to portray them as favourably as possible.
    • If a missile destroyed Flight 370, the missile would have left a radar signature (Thanks to Mike Adams).
    • Boeing 777 commercial jets are equipped with black box recorders that can survive any on-board explosion, and they transmit locator signals for at least 30 days after falling into the ocean (Thanks to Mike Adams).
    • Many parts of destroyed aircraft are naturally bouyant and will float in water (Thanks to Mike Adams), and would have been noticed if there was a crash at sea.
    • Some relatives of passengers claim that calls placed to their cellphones are ringing! Passenger social media accounts on the Chinese social media QQ site show the passengers to be online!
    • Conspiracy Forums are abuzz with rumours of the plane being diverted to Diego Garcia.
    • America has jumped into the investigation, subtly suggesting that the captain went mad (The Iranians don’t seem to interest them). But that’s what they said about EgyptAir Flight 990, which was returning to Egypt with more than 30 military officers who had trained in America. They are mum about the radars at Diego Garcia picking up anything unusual.
    • The lyrics of Get It Started, a song produced by American rapper Pitbull (released 25th June 2012) have gained notoriety among the conspiracy crowd as having contained allegories to the plane’s disappearance. The music video is creepy, and shows people being watched and followed, as if some kind of intelligence operation is going on. The lyrics in question are: No Ali, no Frasier, but for now it’s off to Malaysia/ Two passports, three cities, two countries, one day/Now that’s worldwide, if you think it’s a game, let’s play, dale. The two Iranian men who boarded the plane using fake passports had purchased their tickets from a mysterious Iranian named Ali. According to those who are reading into this, the two passports refers to the two men who boarded the plane using two stolen passports. The three cities might be Kuala Lumpur Beijing and…….. (hold your breath) maybe a city on the American East Coast where the plane was ultimately flown to (see next section). The two countries may be Malaysia and China, and it is clear that the whole operation was meant to create a serious rift between the two. The plane had indeed flown “worldwide” in a short span of time, and had the rift between Malaysia and China deepened, the consequences would have also been “worldwide.” Yes, we do think its a game dale, so lets play! Are the lines I am what they thought I’d never become….I went from eviction to food stamps a reference to “food-stamp” President Obama and his dark transformation?
    • Two “ex-Navy SEALS” SEALs have been found dead aboard the American ship Maersk Alabama in Seychelles, not far from Diego Garcia. It is unclear if this incident is related.
    • British satellite firm Immarsat claimed that it was picking up hourly pings from MH370 up to 7.5 hours after take off.
    • The pilot was, or claimed to be a fanatical supporter of Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim. He even attended Anwar’s trial just before flying. Anwar was being tried for sodomy. Anwar Ibrahim was an opponent of Mahathir Mohammad, and the latter was quoted as saying “He [Anwar] would make a good Prime Minister of Israel.” The Diego Garcia runway was later found among his favourite five runways in a flight simulator he used at home!
    • Airport security camera photographs of the two men travelling on fake passports have been shooped! The younger man (left) was identified as Pouiria Nur Mohammad Mehrdad, 19, said by police in Malaysia to be an Iranian asylum seeker on his way to Germany to meet his mother. The older man (right) remains unknown. But this still does not explain why the legs (and bag) of the older guy were shooped onto Mehrdad’s torso. There are also many other discrepancies in the passenger list, such as people who were reported to be on the flight now claiming to be at home.

    Watch those legs and bag!

    From Diego Garcia to Where?

    If suppose we are to assume that the plane was indeed diverted to Diego Garcia, it is reasonable to assume that the plane and its passengers would not be kept there indefinitely. If we are to follow the logic of some devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums, the plane and its passengers would be flown to the Eastern mainland of the United States, over the Atlantic Ocean to escape scrutiny (and comparatively less distance than the other way around). Of course, the plane’s livery would be painted over. The plane’s wreckage would later be carefully deposited by (presumably by air) on a location far away from Diego Garcia. But why are we discussing this here? Because the same devoted conspiracy theorists who are pursuing this on other forums have pointed out that four days after the disappearance of MH370, a curious military exercise took place on the Southern-Eastern part of the United States coastline. Fighter jets were reportedly “escorting” a plane. To quote,

    Members of the South Carolina Air National Guard are conducting an air defense exercise along the coast. Guard Senior Master Sergeant Edward Snyder says people might see fighter jets escorting a civilian aircraft Thursday over the North Charleston and Myrtle Beach areas.

    Add to that, there is historical precedent suggesting that some very suspicious crashes at sea may have been more than just crashes. The following are some well known examples.

    • In 1983, KAL007 was headed to South Korea, with an American Congressman on board. The Congressman was on a mission to warn the South Korean leadership that the United States government had been compromised by the Soviets. The plane disappeared at sea. After the fall of the Soviet Union, there was some evidence that the Congressman was imprisoned in a gulag. The United States government didn’t seem to have a problem with this arrangement.
    • The 1998 crash of SWR111 in Canadian territorial waters. The plane was carrying diamonds, rubies, emeralds and other gems in its cargo hold, which were worth half a billion dollars. They were being transferred from a bank in America to a bank in Switzerland. None of these were ever recovered. It is possible that the plane was diverted to a Canadian airport. Also on board was Saudi prince Al-Saud Bandar, one of the richest men in the world. Only 60 No bodies were recovered.
    • The 2009 crash of AF447 in the Atlantic Ocean.

    Update: A Tentative Theory of What’s Going on….

    The most unusual aspect of this case is that the plane has mysteriously vanished, and the Powers That Be are well aware that such a scenario raises more questions than answers. It could be possible that The Powers That Be arranged to have the “wreckage” deposited along the plane’s intended route, diverting attention away from Diego Garcia. But in an unprecedented turn of events, Malaysian authorities started focusing on the Indian Ocean, with good reason. Therefore the Powers That Be are suddenly faced with the challenge of depositing another “wreckage,” in the Indian Ocean, in such a short period of time, in an area now subject to global scrutiny, and again, away from Diego Garcia. And therefore the unusual delay in presenting the wreckage.

    The other alternative is that there was never intended to be any wreckage, and like another plane that vanished in Angola, the plane may be used in a future nuclear 9/11 to kickstart Globalist wars. Even if this is the case, the plane would still be diverted to Diego Garcia, and “retrofitted” in USA, because Iran simply lacks the technical knowhow.


    Professional Pilots Rumour Network (Note that this is a fairly technical forum, and conspiracy theories are being deleted)

    Twitter search for #MH370 and #Diego Garcia

    A Malaysian Source (Regularly Updated)

    Maps of the supposed flight route.

    CNN coverage (Warning Disinfo)

    Several aggregated newsfeeds

    Coverage on the Wall Street Journal (Warning Disinfo; This publication is associated with the Rothschilds)

    A continuously updated Timeline of events courtesy the MI-6 Guardian

    Hamad Subani · 1 week ago
    Some interesting comments from reddit:
    The prolonged direction from the “transponder offline point” to “last radar” point lies nearly exactly to US military base at Diego Garcia. Checking the locations of US international airbases, tt actually makes sense to head this direction because its: 1. in range with remaining fuel and 2. off the grid, beyound all recognition.
    And someone quoting from the Wikipedia page on Diego Garcia:
    ETOPS emergency landing site[edit] Diego Garcia may be identified as an ETOPS (Extended Range Twin Engine Operations) emergency landing site (en route alternate) for flight planning purposes of commercial airliners. This allows twin-engine commercial aircraft (such as the Airbus A330, Boeing 767 or Boeing 777) to make theoretical nonstop flights between city pairs such as Perth and Dubai (9,013.61 km or 5,600.80 mi), Hong Kong and Johannesburg (10,658 km or 6,623 mi) or Singapore and São Paulo (15,985.41 km or 9,932.87 mi), all while maintaining a suitable diversion airport within 180 minutes’ flying time with one engine inoperable.

    It is I only · 1 week ago
    Not far fetched! There’s a possibility that what really has happened to the flight!
    But why?? Is it because Malaysia is not a ZOG?? Or is it because of those 20 employees of Texas based Freescale Semiconductors.,,,,
    BTW The first thing to come to my mind about those stolen passports, was the 911 passport of one so called hijacker floating down from the tower to ground level in perfect condition surviving the inferno which pulverised even the black boxes on the airliner!!

    tobase · 1 week ago
    if my military either deliberately or accidentally shot down / commandeered a passenger airliner, then sending the world on a search in the wrong area for a week or so, gives me plenty of time to locate and destroy any black box or other useful info, if, in fact it is ‘downed’ or never to be seen again..

    car-rental-kuala lumput · 1 week ago
    sounds reasonable your theory,but anything may happen..from the way my point of view also think all of this chatastropic is conspiracy that very highly sofisticated and well planned..our government keep silence and keep on covering something and theres no footage picture that the rescue team are been doing rescue from the media in malaysia..its impossible i think and theres no interview session from the victims family..such suspicious..hmmm

    Abu Zain · 1 week ago
    This article makes a lot of sense. specially what happens to the three tall buildings in the 911 WTC horror in New York Those buildings just simply disappeared in front of millions of people in the form of dust. Yet they manage to tell the world the buildings were burnt by fire! The geopolitics of it make sense.The real serial mass murderers are the only people on this planet that have a reason as well as the capability to do it. Well done.

    reader · 1 week ago
    us military sending ship to indian ocean. reports say they believe plane went down indian ocean

    Rollo · 1 week ago
    When at Boeing, I undertook extensive work on the electrical bay below the cockpit. The 777 is loaded with traceable electrical components.

    Roche · 1 week ago
    nice theory. but when you mention on the flight hours from kl-diego garcia which takes 8 hours, does it sound odd for the plane to reach there after flying from almost 2 hrs (after making a U turn)?

    roche · 1 week ago
    how long it takes from penang to diego garcia? you mentioned on the flight hours; 8 hours for kl-diego garcia. remember that the plane has been flying for almost 2 hours after the U-turn. or perhaps refueling in singapore before heading there? just trying to match up with the conspiracy theory

    Hazel · 1 week ago


    Four days after a missing flight, a patent is approved by the Patent Office for maximizing dies on a wafer. 4 of the 5 Patent holders are Chinese employees of Freescale Semiconductor of Austin TX. Patent is divided up on 20% increments to 5 holders. Peidong Wang, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhijun Chen, Suzhou, China, (20%) Zhihong Cheng, Suzhou, China, (20%) Li Ying, Suzhou, China, (20%) Freescale Semiconductor (20%) If a patent holder dies, then the remaining holders equally share the dividends of the deceased if not disputed in a will. If 4 of the 5 dies, then the remaining 1 Patent holder gets 100% of the wealth of the patent. That remaining live Patent holder is Freescale Semiconductor.
    Who owns Freescale Semiconductor ?? Jacob Rothschild through Blackstone who owns Freescale. Here is your motive for the missing Beijing plane. As all 4 Chinese members of the Patent were passengers on the missing plane. Patent holders can alter the proceeds legally by passing wealth to their heirs. However, they cannot do so until the Patent is approved. So when the plane went missing, the patent had not been approved. Thus, Rothschild gets 100% of Patent once Patent holders declared deceased. Rothschild, you are an evil bastard

    asswipe mc pee · 1 week ago
    You know, the article had a creditable version of events up till the point where it was a massive conspiracy to destabilise relations between ghe U.S and China…

    Anna · 1 week ago
    Richard Quest, was in the very same MH370 cockpit with the missing co-pilot 2 weeks before the incident (shooting video of the landing for use in a “CNN Business Traveler” program). Another coincidence?

    James Bond069 · 1 week ago
    It is totally plausible, but my intel tells me they r in another location.
    Whereever they are, even the US ship commander and Obama is playing along the confused game?
    Rewind back ‘ Operations Desert Storm’ and UN address of Gen Collin Powell, how the world was fed by well crafted mis-informations by world media CNN, Fox News, CNBC ( i’ ve never watched them ever again, they have lost all integrity) on Saddam and Iraq. Was Osama ever found guilty by any courts of law to warrant his murder?

    Sho · 1 week ago
    On that last point of the security photo, I thought they already explained that those were two separate photos which were stapled together when they were scanned? An unfortunate oversight.

    anam · 1 week ago
    the malaysian police should check the scanned images of the passengers bags during check-in and boarding.. look for gas masks and something suspicious that could have been in more than one passengers bags.. then check if the passengers sit together or along the plane..
    there’s a police report from a farmer who worked at his farm at 1AM (because it’s too hot during the day he said) and saw the plane’s tail was in fire.. he said he could clearly see MAS logo (at 1AM?).. check the background of this farmer, check his house, check if he was and is still working at his farm at night before and after his report..

    Drake · 1 week ago
    My opinion is Russia Hijacked the plane to get the skill set and knowledge of the Freescale employees. Why? Because Snowdens leaked info to Putin about imbedded technology that was put in Freescales chips in concert with the NSA. Putin needs their talent to counter act the NSAs ability to monitor him OR to use the technology to his advantage in some other way. Putin controls Snowden and therefore knows things about the NSA that nobody else knows but the NSA. Even if these employees did not work for the NSA they may have skills and knowledge that is useful and relevent. Putin is empire building and needs to neutralize the nSAs ability to watch him….or more devious…use the NSAs technology in his own intelligence gathering

    Dimuthu · 1 week ago
    Here is the link to the patent http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=wafer.TI.&OS=TTL/wafer&RS=TTL/wafer
    But I cant find the same names on the passenger manifesto

    AA · 1 week ago
    some people said mh370 landed at secret CIA base in vietnam!!..is it true or baseless?

    Alain Toh · 1 week ago
    If MH370 did make a turn around due to the aircraft having technical issues, it could have landed at 3 locations namely, Penang International, Langkawi Interna.tional or Phuket International airports but over flew all these locations heading north-west at low attitude. It is said that the engine flew for another 4-5 hours after it was reported missing from radar detection and experts said that it could clock 2,200 miles during this period and could reach the Arabian Sea and even Pakistan. It could be a possible hijack but it’s not the passengers that they want, it’s more of the aircraft that the hijackers want for a bigger plot.

    youricarma 42p · 1 week ago
    Missing Malaysia jet LIVE updates: Boeing 777-200 sent signals to satellite for hours
    13 March 2014, Agencies Ho Chi Minh City/Kuala Lumpur (India Today) http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/missing-malaysia-jet-updates-vietnam-to-recheck-area-after-satellite-spots-objects/1/349287.html
    So slowly the monkey starts to show it’s ugly head from the sleeve …
    But even this doesn’t matter because we know that they tracked the plain by all sorts of radar equipment but just are not telling us.
    At least it confirms that the first story they brought out was bogus to begin with.
    AWACS HIJACK PROVEN (Malaysian missing plane) http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/
    Tie in…..
    Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized Internal Access


    unknown · 1 week ago
    Why US is everywhere in this world?

    Brett · 1 week ago
    The aircraft might have been hijacked and an attempt made to crash it at the airbase/port at Diego Garcia. It may have then crashed if the passengers attempted to regain control like flight 93.

    Akmar · 1 week ago
    Malaysian government Keeping silence and keep on covering..as though highly placed officers are involved..Now if this is true..please someone come up with another theory about plan A, B or C.. Plan A = to strain relations between Communist China and Malaysia, and it may contribute to a future deterioration of their relationship, resulting in increased justification of Chinese presence in the region, and maybe even future Chinese aggression. This may also help explain why a Malaysian plane was targeted, as opposed to an Indonesian plane (Indonesia is already in the hands of the Globalists, and therefore never gets any brinkmanship from Communist China, which is a creation of the Globalists) – (copy paste of the above from Florian Wiltusky). Plan B? (My thinking is If Malaysian highly placed officials and the other conspirators from other nations as decribed by Florian screwed up or Plan A fails miserably, there would surely b another blame game in their minds..) and Plan C? Please offer us the possibility of that. Thank you

    Jacques Beatty · 1 week ago
    Lived on DG for 4 years…don’t think the plane is there.

    dhivehi · 1 week ago
    There is an international airport not far from Diego Garcia it’s the southern most island of Maldives, Gan we need to If they got anything on theirs

    Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 PLANNED! (Diego Garcia) – YouTube

    7 days ago – Uploaded by White Legends



    Russia “Puzzled” Over Malaysia Airlines “Capture” By US Navy
    Discussion in ‘Russia’ started by sangos, Sunday Mar 14th, 2014 1304

    A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU) states that Aerospace Defence Forces (VKO) experts remain “puzzled” as to why the United States Navy “captured and then diverted” a Malaysia Airlines civilian aircraft from its intended flight-path to their vast and highly-secretive Indian Ocean base located on the Diego Garcia atoll.

    According to this report, Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (also marketed as China Southern Airlines flight 748 through a codeshare) was a scheduled passenger flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing, China, when on 8 March this Boeing 777-200ER aircraft “disappeared” in flight with 227 passengers on board from 15 countries, most of whom were Chinese, and 12 crew members.

    Interesting to note, this report says, was that Flight 370 was already under GRU “surveillance” after it received a “highly suspicious” cargo load that had been traced to the Indian Ocean nation Republic of Seychelles, and where it had previously been aboard the US-flagged container ship MV Maersk Alabama.

    What first aroused GRU suspicions regarding the MV Maersk Alabama, this report continues, was that within 24-hours of off-loading this “highly suspicious” cargo load bound for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, the two highly-trained US Navy Seals assigned to protect it, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances.”

    Both Kennedy and Reynolds, this report says, were employed by the Virginia Beach, Virginia-based maritime security firm The Trident Group which was founded by US Navy Special Operations Personnel (SEAL’s) and Senior US Naval Surface Warfare Officers and has long been known by the GRU to protect vital transfers of both atomic and biological materials throughout the world.

    Upon GRU “assests” confirming that this “highly suspicious” cargo was aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on 8 March, this report notes, Moscow notified China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) of their concerns and received “assurances” that “all measures” would be taken as to ascertain what was being kept so hidden when this aircraft entered into their airspace.

    However, this report says, and as yet for still unknown reasons, the MSS was preparing to divert Flight 370 from its scheduled destination of Beijing to Haikou Meilan International Airport (HAK) located in Hainan Province (aka Hainan Island).

    Prior to entering the People Liberation Army (PLA) protected zones of the South China Sea known as the Spratly Islands, this report continues, Flight 370 “significantly deviated” from its flight course and was tracked by VKO satellites and radar flying into the Indian Ocean region and completing its nearly 3,447 kilometer (2,142 miles) flight to Diego Garcia.

    Critical to note about Flight 370’s flight deviation, GRU experts in this report say, was that it occurred during the same time period that all of the Spratly Island mobile phone communications operated by China Mobile were being jammed.

    China Mobile, it should be noted, extended phone coverage in the Spratly Islands in 2011 so that PLA soldiers stationed on the islands, fishermen, and merchant vessels within the area would be able to use mobile services, and can also provide assistance during storms and sea rescues.

    As to how the US Navy was able to divert Flight 370 to its Diego Garcia base, this report says, appears to have been accomplished remotely as this Boeing 777-200ER aircraft is equipped with a fly-by-wire (FBW) system that replaces the conventional manual flight controls of an aircraft with an electronic interface allowing it to be controlled like any drone-type aircraft.

    However, this report notes, though this aircraft can be controlled remotely, the same cannot be said of its communication systems which can only be shut down manually; and in the case of Flight 370, its data reporting system was shut down at 1:07 a.m., followed by its transponder (which transmits location and altitude) which was shut down at 1:21 a.m.

    What remains “perplexing” about this incident, GRU analysts in this report say, are why the American mainstream media outlets have yet to demand from the Obama regime the radar plots and satellite images of the Indian Ocean and South China Sea regions as the US military covers this entire area from Diego Garcia like no other seas in the world due to its vital shipping and air lanes.

    Most sadly, this report concludes, the US is actually able to conceal the reason(s) for the “disappearance” of Flight 370 as they have already done so after the events of 11 September 2011 when the then Bush regime “disappeared” American Airlines Flight 77 and its 64 passengers and crew after falsely claiming it hit the Pentagon, but which was confirmed by the CNN News Service [see video HERE] not to have happened.


    Barry Tarleton @barryt01, March 15, 2014
    Has the US Navy said anything about their radar at Diego Garcia? If the plane went to the Ind, ocean they should have had it on their radar

    derp United States says: 19/03/2014 at 12:39 pm
    His/her “source” is no less credible than the garbage being reported by the MSM. Hell they’ve been peddling flat out misinformation and biased BS for years to advance the political view(s) of those who wield control over their empire.

    Rummie Hong Kong says: 17/03/2014 at 12:22 pm
    Yeah but the one that supposedly hit Pentagon? How many saw it? And the other supposedly crashed after heroic battle?

    Christine Cox United States says: 19/03/2014 at 4:19 am
    Planes did not actually hit the Twin Towers either. They were holograms. Would be physically impossible for real planes to do what they appeared to on the videos.

    DC Australia says: 20/03/2014 at 5:20 am
    No, they weren’t holograms, that’s just bordering on delusional. They were remote controlled drones. The first one probably painted to look like an American Airliner, and the second one a grey military drone – multiple amatuer videos show it being grey.

    Stephan Williams Canada says: 18/03/2014 at 3:01 am
    So does the true story of 911, Jeff. That’s because the people behind these dastardly deeds think in terms of blockbuster movie plots.

    yoda United States says: 17/03/2014 at 12:56 pm
    Maersk Alabama is the ship in the movie captain Phillips recently :)- the author is watching too many movies!

    derek United States says: 17/03/2014 at 1:33 pm


    February 2014 deaths of two security contractors
    On 19 February 2014, it was reported that two former Navy SEALs working as security contractors aboard the Maersk Alabama for the private security firm Trident Group were found dead aboard the container ship, a day after it docked at Port Victoria, Seychelles..[40] Seychelles police officials reported that the autopsy found the cause of death to be “respiratory failure, with suspicion of myocardial infarction (heart attack).” The presence of a syringe and traces of heroin in the cabin have led to a suspicion of drug use

    Joy Sarah Nawati Indonesia says: 17/03/2014 at 3:57 pm
    My Stupid Logic says:
    it’s one of Electronic Warfare tests by a ‘herd’ of people. A botched cover up, better to keep this case confusing rather than telling the truth to media. These days, all comm systems are getting advanced & complicated, the grid, GPS, beacon and stuffs, HELLO, they can spy people, send drones, nuke everybody just by hitting “ENTER”… And yet, this plane is still foggy?? yeah right! X(

    tech Australia says: 17/03/2014 at 4:00 pm
    Did a search on those two navy seals… Two trained eleite navy seals overdosed on heroin and reported a few weeks before plane missing. Not saying this article is correct but so far no one knows whats happening and hey anything can happen when you have $. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2566772/Respiratory-failure-named-deaths-2-US-SEALs.html

    Son of the Morning Light Sri Lanka says: 18/03/2014 at 10:04 am
    so was Captain Philips aboard the Maersk Alabama when it was transporting this “cargo”? =))

    Kumpi Slovenia says: 18/03/2014 at 1:24 pm
    …Is this a script for new James Bond?…. :-8

    Mark Williams United States says: 18/03/2014 at 2:33 pm
    Read the artical related to the link and then come back to my comments and read them. Some say the US government is in bed with the Antichrist and some say it is President Obama. The Antichrist doesn’t care about money, he wants your soul. Once he finds your price, if it’s money, sex, or anything else, he values nothing more then your soul. It’s just a matter of time before he deceives some people, some people have no price and are committed to the Lord. They remain in solidarity with their heavenly father. What the Antichrist wants to do, is find the scientific means to make souls. That way he would be able to crossbred angels and humans again, like days gone by, as in the book of Enoch. God did not give souls to angels, nor did God give angels the knowledge of how to make a soul. Hence they need humans to experiment on, to find a solution as their are answers to all questions. That is why aliens do all the experiments on humans and make them void of the knowledge. When a human being is having experimentation done upon them, all they have to do is mention Gods name Jehovah and you are quickly returned. They can not endure his sacred name and fear him, as they know their end. I know most of what I am saying, sounds so strange to many people but it is a well know fact which was written in the book of Enoch. It’s why the great flood occurred as human embarrassed these fallen angels prior and God forbid it. One third of the angels were casted down from heaven. Today it is one of the most deceptive efforts taking place, with the help of evil governments throughout the world. One must be a leader! Just in the past couple of years several government have come clean with respect to have knowledge of alien life and they have worked with them. Yet the United States of America has not told the truth, more and more people are becoming aware of UFO and stating they have been abducted by aliens. I do not believe someone who doesn’t believe in God could understand as their faith is in science. Almost all of these people are returned but our government provides them people for research in exchange for various knowledge, which can make them very wealthy and powerful. These people are strategically place into these positions of power and given wealth. Most people would have a very difficult time accepting what I am saying to be a true fact. Yet their have been numerous claims made by people that worked for the government and have experiences this knowledge first hand, although it is my own conclusion as to why they are doing this. It may not make sense to you as they can manifest themselves to look just like us and these aliens can posses people. Still it remains they do not have a soul of their own, it is what he desires most. You do not need to be afraid as long as you have God as your friend. It brings me no pleasure to inform you of these facts and I wish it were not true but do not let them deceive you into becoming complacent. They are here, and our government works closely with them, so build a loving relationship with God, remain in his grace. They have manifested in all level of government and position of authority. Even within our own military and the business community. Only they know who they are and can easily identify one another. They have an IQ of 1000, when the average humans only has an IQ of about 120. It’s like taking candy from a baby. We are thought to be monkeys and worthy to only being slaves. Why do they hate us? Because God chose us over them and they disobeyed his commandments without remorse or repenting. Yet God is forgiving and it remains that he would accept them back if only they repented, although it is believed only a few will do so before the final hour of judgment arrives. It is why they shall burn in the eternal flames of hell. People that welcome them into their temple by choice shall be judged justly. Why doesn’t God stop it from happening? If you want that answer, you only need to ask and I will provide you with the answer.

    Jacked United States says: 18/03/2014 at 9:39 pm
    Well, this is an imaginative effort. Unfortunately it’s a bit weak since it relies on the Obama regime sending super secret stuff on cargo ships. They would obviously use one of Obama’s Stealth Cargo Planes (SCPs, or “Scups”) to aimlessly transport the sneaky cargo around the world.

    john smith United States says: 18/03/2014 at 10:20 pm
    I dont about this report, but I will say theres definitely inconsistent reports going on, which somewhat reflects that this incident is on a governing level.


    you have the chief of police, head of dept of transportation, and the ceo of malaysia airlines saying different things. who are these people who didnt get on, or did get on? why would there be standby passengers when theres 55 seats available?
    also who is this american Philip Woods?

    Mike Adkins New Zealand says: 18/03/2014 at 11:09 pm
    this plane has not crashed or been found,
    Transponder was turned off, takes knowledge to do this,
    Comms were disabled, again, takes know how to do.
    Oil rig workers whitnessed an explosion in the sky, yet no evidence of any kind left floating in the sea. the area has been grid searched several times.
    US do have this flight plan area under full radar survailance, why are they not showing its position of disapearance,
    and last, No Plane hit the Pentagon and No plane hit the ground in the events of 911, and Not one flight data box from any of the planes was ever found, First time in Avation History and all 4 on the same day, the crator in the woods is round, planes dont fall vertically , they have movement, if they are falling straight down the damage to the ground is minimal as to the velocity of the impact, The Hole in the Pentagon walls was only just big enough for the Fusalarge of the plane, where did the wings and engines go i wonder, the report says they were melted in the explosion, Titanium engines do not melt in a fireball of Avation fuel, if they did they wouldnt be suitable as jet engines that continuasly run under much higher heat ranges.
    dont hate me, Just Facts…… L-)

    dnh New Zealand says: 20/03/2014 at 9:42 am
    it seems most of people are looking for source of who and how did get this information. unfortunately if they disclose their source i don’t think any of them will see the day light next day. that is the type of world we live in today. weather it is right or wrong because America say we have to believe. is any one brother to question why their great ally Great Britain so quit about this whole episode. because they know what exactly happen they rather stay not knowing it or dumb sounded. the American can do anything what they want because Europeans are being blackmailed by Americans so be it. but someone is up their looking down the earth and some day America has to pay with interest i hope i will still live that day just say thanks god.

    Prat India says: 20/03/2014 at 6:54 pm
    loll!!! Hey ya’ll yankees. . man!!! u people are banging the whole world every minute. .nd nobody is unable to anything. Stealing the oil from gulf, then tempting the gulf people to become terrorist, u raised cold war, disintegrated the soviets, dropped bombs on japan, brought an earthquake on haiti(rumoured), un-necessaryly killed ur own soldiers in Mogadishu, croatia, vietnam, cuba, afghanistan, iraq,iran, pakistan,korean reigon,columbia, WTC 9/11. Atleast i believe that 9/11 attack was carried out by you people only so that you will be able to wage wars on gulf countries for oil and that in turn will fasten up your arms production fuelling the economy. Also you people will get excuse to produce arms in bulk so as to make the world dance on your tunes. You people are shi*ho**les. . .you see one day china, india and russia will emerge to f*** u ya’ll yankees. . =))

    vigilant53 United States says: 21/03/2014 at 8:21 pm
    You know something, I’m a 53 year old American that agree with you. We’ve got this omnipotent corporate culture that’s supported by Wall Street. They run rough-shod over everyone including Americans. The energy industry, in my opinion, is the worst. Our government gives lip service to becoming energy independent, yet they won’t take steps toward fixing the infracstructure that makes us dependent on automobile transportation. Living in the Atlanta area, and having to commute 32 miles each way to work, requires me to drive, and that’s a situation I would change,if I could. We need a new economic pardigm, for our future, that gets people out of their cars, and on foot, bikes, trains and buses.
    Last May, I took a trip to Munich, Germany. I wish I was twenty years old again, just starting off in life. The United States wouldn’t be my first or fifth choice of places to live.

    OBM Pakistan says: 22/03/2014 at 8:10 am
    Mark Reynolds and Kieth died in February as per http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2566772/Respiratory-failure-named-deaths-2-US-SEALs.html. The article is published on 24th Feb and claims these two died in the week before. The article fails to mention dates which are critical in such evaluations.

    Pierre France says:
    20/03/2014 at 2:05 pm

    “J’ai un gros nez rouge. :D/ (dance)
    Des traits sur les yeux B-)
    Un chapeau qui bouge ;))
    Un air malicieux ;))

    Deux grandes savates. :)) (lol)
    Un grand pantalon :-$
    Et quand je me gratte :-q
    Je saute au plafond.” ~X( (crazy)

    And my name is Uncle Sam (U.S. …)


    Malaysia Airlines Mystery Deepens After Top Disease Experts Rushed To Indian Ocean
    Posted by EU Times on Mar 16th, 2014

    A grim report prepared by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU) on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is stating today that within 24-hours of this aircrafts “diversion” to the highly secretive Indian Ocean US military base located on the Diego Garcia atoll, no less than four flights, within the past week, containing top American and Chinese disease scientists and experts have, likewise, been flown to there.

    According to this report, Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (also marketed as China Southern Airlines flight 748 through a codeshare) was a scheduled passenger flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing, China, when on 8 March this Boeing 777-200ER aircraft “disappeared” in flight with 227 passengers on board from 15 countries, most of whom were Chinese, and 12 crew members.

    As we had previously noted in our report “Russia “Puzzled” Over Malaysia Airlines “Capture” By US Navy,” the GRU had previously notified China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS) of its suspicions regarding this flight due its containing a “highly suspicious” cargo that had been offloaded in the Republic of Seychelles from the US-flagged container ship MV Maersk Alabama.

    First arousing the GRU’s concerns regarding this “highly suspicious” cargo, this report continues, was that after its unloading from the MV Maersk Alabama on 17 February, its then transfer to Seychelles International Airport where it was loaded on an Emirates flight bound for Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia, after first stopping over in Dubai, the two highly trained US Navy SEALS who were guarding it were found dead.

    The two US Navy SEALS protecting this “highly suspicious” cargo, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances” aboard the MV Maersk Alabama, this report says, further raising Russian intelligence suspicions as they were both employed by the Virginia Beach, Virginia-based maritime security firm The Trident Group which was founded by US Navy Special Operations Personnel (SEAL’s) and Senior US Naval Surface Warfare Officers and has long been known by the GRU to protect vital transfers of both atomic and biological materials throughout the world.

    Upon Flight 370’s departure from Malaysia on 8 March, this report continues, the GRU was notified by the MSS that they were going to divert it from its scheduled destination of Beijing to Haikou Meilan International Airport (HAK) located in Hainan Province (aka Hainan Island).

    Prior to this planes entering into People Liberation Army (PLA) protected zones of the South China Sea known as the Spratly Islands, however, this report continues, Flight 370 “significantly deviated” from its flight course and was tracked by VKO satellites and radar flying into the Indian Ocean region and completing its nearly 3,447 kilometer (2,142 miles) flight to Diego Garcia.

    In a confirmation of the GRU’s assertion that Flight 370 was, indeed, flown to Diego Garcia, this report says, satellite transmission data analyzed by US investigators showed that this planes most likely last-known position was in a zone about 1,609 kilometers (1,000 miles) west of Perth, Australia in the Indian Ocean..

    Most troubling to the GRU about Flight 370’s “diversion” to Diego Garcia, this report says, was that it was “nearly immediately” followed by some of the top disease scientists and experts from the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDCP) embarking to Diego Garcia on at least four flights.

    As to why both American and Chinese disease experts were taken to Diego Garcia where Flight 370 is now known to be, this report says, has as yet not been answered by either of these governments after repeated Foreign Ministry requests for “explanations and clarification.”

    What is to be known, this report says, is that as Malaysia has been forced to admit Flight 370 was, indeed, “diverted” from its flight path as the GRU had previously reported, and as at least 25 nations are now involved in searching for it, it remains a mystery as to what is actually occurring.

    Also known, this report concludes, is that Diego Garcia as a designated ETOPS emergency landing site for flight planning purposes of commercial airliners transversing the Indian Ocean, and as one of 33 emergency landing sites worldwide for the NASA Space Shuttle, it is “inconceivable” that any type of aircraft, let alone Flight 370, can fly anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere without being tracked, monitored and recorded in totality.

    The Links
    Russia “Puzzled” Over Malaysia Airlines “Capture” By US Navy


    China’s Ministry of State Security (MSS)


    Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44


    satellite transmission data analyzed by US investigators


    forced to admit


    25 nations


    V. Warner United States says: 18/03/2014 at 4:50 am
    If any of this information is true, why haven’t we heard the same from other news agencies?

    Pieter, Sydney, Australia Australia says: 18/03/2014 at 4:59 pm
    Cuz all the western news agencies (USA, Australia, Canada, UK, etc) are owned by people who are part of covering up what’s REALLY happening in the world and keeping us all in the dark. No-one in Aust has seen this story – which I believe to be the TRUTH. The FACTS FIT! We are fed bullshit regurgitated over & over which doesn’t match the established facts. E.G. Plane “disappeared” off civilian radar yet is known to have continued flying (many) hours after. How can that happen? Only 1 known method – blocking/jamming radar signals – by AWACS military aircraft, which can also fly these planes remotely & turn off other comms systems. Who could/would? USA! If not for this “suspicious cargo” then for the 20 Freescale Semiconductor engineers who make hi-tech military equipment for the Chinese &/or Russian military, who were on board. Am I a conspiracy theorist? Hell Yeah! Open your eyes and research the facts for your self. Search YouTube. 9/11 was an inside job, thermite brought the twin towers down, it was the most perfect demolition job in history! Do your own research, make up your own mind. Yeah, there’s a lot of shit out there too (I don’t believe in reptilian masters & shapeshifters!), but put the facts together so they make sense and you start to get the REAL picture. Scary? YES! Our govts DON’T act “for the good of the people”, they pander to the powers that be who actually pull the strings. Research Illuminati, secret societies, Freemasons, etc. They are the real controllers via banks, Big Pharma, big corporations. Find out what FEMA is really about. I am sooo glad I DON’T live in the USA, the shit is gonna hit the fan there one day in the not too distant future (And DFLjk & ianf won’t be laughing anymore!). Anyway, enough said, I’m ranting :-@ . I discovered this website yesterday, quite interesting http://jimstonefreelance.com/ He says he’s ex-NSA. Open your eyes, people! If the story the media are spinning doesn’t add up, look elsewhere! :)

    rICKY r Seychelles says: 18/03/2014 at 2:07 pm
    Hi guys no i do beleive that because it has much of a technical explanatory and Now you may Notice that some Media Might Not talk directly to this.. DIEGO GARRCIA IS THE PERFECT PLACE IN INDIN OCEAN FOR SUCH HIDE OUTS MANY MILLION OPEN MINDED PEOPLE, COULD TELL YU THAT!!!!

    mark Williams United States says: 18/03/2014 at 2:45 pm
    Read the artical related to the link and then come back to my comments and read them. Some say the US government is in bed with the Antichrist and some say it is President Obama. The Antichrist doesn’t care about money, he wants your soul. Once he finds your price, if it’s money, sex, or anything else, he values nothing more then your soul. It’s just a matter of time before he deceives some people, some people have no price and are committed to the Lord. They remain in solidarity with their heavenly father. What the Antichrist wants to do, is find the scientific means to make souls. That way he would be able to crossbred angels and humans again, like days gone by, as in the book of Enoch. God did not give souls to angels, nor did God give angels the knowledge of how to make a soul. Hence they need humans to experiment on, to find a solution as their are answers to all questions. That is why aliens do all the experiments on humans and make them void of the knowledge. When a human being is having experimentation done upon them, all they have to do is mention Gods name Jehovah and you are quickly returned. They can not endure his sacred name and fear him, as they know their end. I know most of what I am saying, sounds so strange to many people but it is a well know fact which was written in the book of Enoch. It’s why the great flood occurred as human embarrassed these fallen angels prior and God forbid it. One third of the angels were casted down from heaven. Today it is one of the most deceptive efforts taking place, with the help of evil governments throughout the world. One must be a leader! Just in the past couple of years several government have come clean with respect to have knowledge of alien life and they have worked with them. Yet the United States of America has not told the truth, more and more people are becoming aware of UFO and stating they have been abducted by aliens. I do not believe someone who doesn’t believe in God could understand as their faith is in science. Almost all of these people are returned but our government provides them people for research in exchange for various knowledge, which can make them very wealthy and powerful. These people are strategically place into these positions of power and given wealth. Most people would have a very difficult time accepting what I am saying to be a true fact. Yet their have been numerous claims made by people that worked for the government and have experiences this knowledge first hand, although it is my own conclusion as to why they are doing this. It may not make sense to you as they can manifest themselves to look just like us and these aliens can posses people. Still it remains they do not have a soul of their own, it is what he desires most. You do not need to be afraid as long as you have God as your friend. It brings me no pleasure to inform you of these facts and I wish it were not true but do not let them deceive you into becoming complacent. They are here, and our government works closely with them, so build a loving relationship with God, remain in his grace. They have manifested in all level of government and position of authority. Even within our own military and the business community. Only they know who they are and can easily identify one another. They have an IQ of 1000, when the average humans only has an IQ of about 120. It’s like taking candy from a baby. We are thought to be monkeys and worthy to only being slaves. Why do they hate us? Because God chose us over them and they disobeyed his commandments without remorse or repenting. Yet God is forgiving and it remains that he would accept them back if only they repented, although it is believed only a few will do so before the final hour of judgment arrives. It is why they shall burn in the eternal flames of hell. People that welcome them into their temple by choice shall be judged justly. Why doesn’t God stop it from happening? If you want that answer, you only need to ask and I will provide you with the answer.

    Mark Willam United States says: 19/03/2014 at 9:29 am
    It is in fact a fact that they continue to rule becse of people like you whoare considered monky slaves. It is why they n get away with it and wll continue to do so until the end of days.

    Joe Miller United States says: 18/03/2014 at 3:47 pm
    Initially, I thought this might be a Hi-Jacked Aircraft. Afterward, the variables started to come to light for example the satellite info regarding the direction of the plane being reported. There are too many unanswered questions as to the final disposition and it is highly likely government intervention is involved in some way. Are these missing people being quarantined because to a highly contagious disease aboard? Diego Garcia would be an ideal spot to do that.

    Joe Miller United States says: 18/03/2014 at 3:56 pm
    I scanned Mark Williams’ comment and his theory of Aliens and the missing aircraft leaves me a little bewildered as to the point he was making. I believe there are “UFO’s” and that perhaps there are Aliens here on earth as well. However, I do not think they (The Aliens) are responsible for taking these people hostage or to another planet. More than likely, as I have previously stated, the plane and passengers are safe on ground and being detained for reasons that only our government or that of Malaysia cab explain.

    v warner United States says: 18/03/2014 at 6:00 pm
    Aliens, other planets? Now I know that European Times is a joke. Glad I found out by reading such ridiculous conspiracy theories.

    Alf United States says: 18/03/2014 at 7:51 pm
    What a bunch of paranoid nonsense !
    It’s as plain as the nose on your face what happened : Amelia Erhart is alive and well and she hijacked the plane !

    fathyn Maldives says: 18/03/2014 at 8:22 pm
    But according to witness MH370 may have pass Maldives



    RENUKA Sri Lanka says: 19/03/2014 at 11:21 am
    my initial thought of a possibility was a super genius having mastered the know-hows of beating all systems of aeronautics with sheer determination of taking flying business to the next level maneuvered this from surface to air controlling as from a remote control ,subjected this aircraft to an experiment at the cost of passengers and probably landed somewhere deserted, on a preplanned and prepared terrain, known to him and the parties concerned, Having said that the most plausible, realistic scenario could have been a total pilot incapacitation, where, the flight deck being engulfed in smoke caused by an external source, which made the aircraft fly on Auto-pilot up to the point where it ran out of fuel, as it could not make that descent to the intended destination, and ditched somewhere claiming all the lives, which none of us want to accept at this point of time, until debris is found. But even in this scenario, since that prompt divertion of route took place taking a left presumably towards the airport to make that emergency landing, with all due respect to the knowledge, skill, and experience of the captain in command, one tends to wander as to why in this case the crew and the passengers not been informed with what ever mode of communication, [PA, intercom] about the situation in order to prepare passengers for the impact as standard safety and emergency procedures in an emergencies, with the best interest of the safety of passengers. If so under these circumstances, taking into consideration the low altitude and the duration this aircraft has been flying after taking that change of course, at least one passenger out of 239 may have used SATCOM, or mobile to inform of the impending situation to family and friends. Functionality of such too questionable depending on the area and zone, and satellite coverage.. this is one grey area I see even in the most plausible theory so far.


    MH370 Pilot’s Simulator Had Diego Garcia Landing Programmed In!
    Tuesday, March 18, 2014 5:27

    I’ve believed the US/UK military has been involved in this all along, and that the plane was flown to Diego Garcia. Now, it seems all evidence is pointing that way..

    KUALA LUMPUR: The airport runway of Diego Garcia is among the top five locations the investigative team discovered on the simulator programme in Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah’sresidence in Shah Alamlast Saturday, as reported by Berita Harian.

    Read more at:http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/mh370-diego-garcia-runway-found-in-captain-zaharies-flight-simulator-32034?cp

    Now, the news is showing a circle of how far the plane went before it uploaded the engine data when it landed, that is how they know how far it went.

    Now, if you put Diego Garcia on that map, you get the location at the exact point where the flight time would have taken it.

    What’s really interesting is where the Maersk Alabama unloaded the two dead SEALS when they supposedly OD’d on heroin.

    The British Idian Ocean Territory is Diego Garcia. The UK owns the island, and leases it to the US military.

    Interesting is the current position of the Maersk Alabama, as I believe is somehow aiding in this mystery.

    Last location was uploaded March 11th. Where has the Maersk Alabama been for the last 7 days.

    On March 11th, it was coming from the port of Jebel Ali and was last located just off the coast of Oman. In the 11 days it’s been missing, it could have easily delivered a cargo to Diego Garcia, say like and EMP, that was picked up in Dubai.

    If one connects the dots, it seems obvious this was a military operation using US/UK assets to hide the aircraft.

    I’ve been glued to CNN, as this story is fascinating. Not once has that propaganda news channel mentioned that Diego Garcia is within the range of the flight the plane took. Yet it’s all over the internet. Hmm.

    Edit to add: After missing for 9 days, the Maersk Alabama is now docked in Dar Es Salam


    I’ve drawn a what I believe was the flight path of flight MH370

    Immarsat, who originally reported they had received 7 pings from the aircraft, reported immediatly to SITA, before they even reported it to Malaysian Airlines.

    Notice the 7 locations of the aircraft, corresponding with the 7 pings, INCLUDING…the landing.

    Aircom Ekaterinburg 28 Oct 09 ENG.pdf

    nihilismo Mar 18, 2014, 6:36 am
    Superb work as usual Stompk! I also appreciate the work you put in over on the Icke forum; You’re a voice of reason amongst all the disinfo over there. This incident bears all the hallmarks of a joint US/UK ZOG operation, right down to the feigned ‘Confusion’ and poor acting by the MSM. Keep up the good work dude! :cool:

    M19G00D13BAG Mar 18, 2014, 8:32 am
    I completely agree. However the chances of any truth surfacing regarding Diego Garcia are very slim, get ready for a complete media smear. I do however think some sort of formal protest needs to be actioned to demand an investigation.
    Other than the clues and facts that are leading towards Diego Garcia what do you think would be the motive for the US to carry this out?

    times2come Mar 19, 2014, 11:41 pm
    :idea: Maybe the muslim in the white house is getting a second chance at detonating a nuclear or EMP device over the U.S. by a “Terrorist Hijacked” plane ??? :twisted:

    Moriyah Mar 18, 2014, 7:50 am
    Great thinking Sherlock.
    Now, what about the rest of the iceberg?

    Jimstonefreelance Mar 18, 2014, 7:54 am
    This is PERFECT. Good one. Watch this shoot to the top, I am going to use my web site to put it there.
    Thanks for this bit of work,
    Jim Stone

    stompk Mar 18, 2014, 8:45 am
    Hey Jim, thanks for that. I also noticed that residents of the Maldives are reporting seeing a large commercial airliner flying low by their islands headed towards the South. South of the Maldives is of course, Diego Garcia.


    Anonymous Mar 18, 2014, 8:21 am
    There are other “bases” at which this aircraft could have landed within that “circle”. India/US maintains at least one “base” on the Andaman Islands. In any case, nothing that CNN reports is credible with respect to this “event”, NOTHING. Why? They maintain the lie of the “events” of 9/11 to this day, as does FOX, and many other msm news outlets, as do some of the so-called “Alternative News Networks”. Many of these news outlets continue to support the lies concerning what has gone with the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the war in Egypt, the war in Libya, the war in Lebanon, the war in Sudan, the war in Somalia, and now, the war in Ukraine. They consistently proclaim that what happened on 9/11 was an “attack” yet, overwhelming evidence proves this to be an orchestrated “event” used to justify attacks on 7 nations in 5 years, which Wesley Clark, former NATO commander, has openly stated on YouTube! I rest my case.

    Anonymous Mar 18, 2014, 8:31 am
    NO ONE is talking about THIS!
    “Andaman and Nicobar islands are significant for increasing surveillance in the Indonesian Strait and the Bay of Bengal. It would also help India extend its maritime power in South China Sea before the Chinese foreclose the option.”
    Car Nicobar Ab is a military airfield with a runway nearly 9000 ft. long! It was recently “upgraded” in a cooperative US/India deal to allow large military cargo planes and fighter planes to operated out of.

    HairyHenry Mar 18, 2014, 8:31 am
    Erm, except the satellite that picked up the last “ping” from the aircraft at a 40? angle. Diego Garcia is almost below the satellite at that time (i.e. 90?), so the plane couldn’t be there. Plus the theory is insane!

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 10:59 am
    Of course this “theory” is “insane”. That’s the way the media portrays “conspiracy theorists”, just like you’re doing! Either you’re deceived, or a deceiver. This whole “event” is part of a larger plan. Freemason Albert Pike basically described how this plan was to come about in a letter written in 1887. Of course, the RSV of the Holy Bible gives even more details as to this plan, however, the plans of Man are all in VAIN!

    Anonymous Mar 18, 2014, 8:40 am
    “To shore up its Andaman and Nicobar Command, India has given control of the command to the Navy alone rather than continuing the current practice of rotating control among the Air Force, Army and Navy. The Indian Ministry of Defence decided that giving control to the Navy would help strengthen the command, a Navy official said. The command was created to observe Chinese activity in the Indian Ocean and to function as a base for future littoral warfare. The command is functioning at a low level and includes troops and officers from all three services, the Navy official said. Russian-made Su-30MKI fighter aircraft have been placed in the command, and there are plans to increase the number of operational airfields on the island, as well as stationing an unspecified number of submarines.”


    Why would Russian Su-30MKI fighter aircraft be stationed on this base which was built in cooperation with US and India’s militaries?

    HereAmI Mar 18, 2014, 2:56 pm
    Probably because these are planes bought from Russia for use by the IAF? You surely aren’t suggestinmg that these are Russian-crewed Sukhois?

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 11:15 am
    Someone has to train the IDF pilots how to fly these Russian made fighters, don’t they? Surely, they wouldn’t be trainers from the US/NATO command, now, would they?

    zanaelf Mar 18, 2014, 3:58 pm
    Knew it was industrial military complex……

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 11:08 am
    The global military industrial complex is far more powerful than the MIC was after WW1 and WW2. The global industry in weaponry of all kinds and types is a multi-TRILLION dollar industry. Billions are spent on purchasing weapons and the support systems that go with them, which is part of the reason that so many nations are in such financial disarray. The world’s nations are more armed now than at any other time in human history! What do you think will eventually happen? Without WAR the corporations and companies that are developing the weapons and security “systems”, as well as the support “systems”, to make their profits would cease to exist!

    Alan Mar 18, 2014, 5:05 pm
    Can take over planes signal, by hack bypass, rerouting signal to third plane, then stealth fly the jet {777} south whilst performing third plane journey, northeast, and ending{cutting} the signal. :roll:

    av8rboi Mar 18, 2014, 8:56 pm
    someone found it flying low over andaman islands.


    CrowPie Mar 19, 2014, 12:32 am
    Debunked. This image was taken in daylight. The flight in question disappeared at night. Nice try.

    Truthgivesfreedom Mar 19, 2014, 5:09 am
    Have you guys even mentioned the people that live at Maldives Islands?
    SEE FACT 5! QUICK! This is a HUGE DEAL.
    1.You have a plane that diverted in the middle of cruise with no distress signals.
    2.ACARS and all communications shut off intentionally.
    3.The last radar bleep from satellite puts the plane right next to Diego Garcia.
    4.The flight simulator at the Captains house had found practice runways for maldives and diego garcia.
    5.THE BIGGEST DEAL! The people of Maldives saw a plane that matched the description of the Malaysian Airlines jet flying so low it was creating a tremendous sound and they could actually see the doors.
    6.Maldives is VERY VERY close to Diego Garcia.
    7.The plane is actually part of a covert mission. Please someone tell me? Why else would a commercial airliner end up in a military base in the middle of no where? Now speculate all you

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 10:54 am
    Can any of you see where this is headed? Just now on duh news an interviewee was talking about how they need to have a way to locate, not just planes that crash or are hijacked, but the PEOPLE who’re on them! One way would be to mandate that everyone have an electronic “device” put “on” them in order to determine their exact location “anytime, anywhere”. The device would allow wireless monitoring of “vital signals”, such as EEG, ECG, EKG, etc., in order to determine location as well as the physiological condition, i.e., whether or not the person was sick, injured, unconscious, or dead.

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 11:20 am
    And now, for the next act. Right now they’re talking about having video cameras put in the cockpit of every airliner in order to monitor pilots. Any of you own stock in one of the corporations hoping to get in on this? What’s next? How soon until they start suggesting that every pilot have an electronic device placed “on” them that can monitor psycho-physiological “signals”? You see now where this is going?

    Anonymous Mar 19, 2014, 11:25 am
    And so, now you begin to understand why the stock market is going up instead of down?

    cryptkeeper Mar 20, 2014, 11:57 am
    Suspicious cargo from the Maersk Alabama was on that plane.China found out that we were sending them a”gift”,then we found out that they found out,well you know what I mean.The plane had to be diverted to retrieve the cargo.I use the term “we” loosely(probably CIA).The dead seals will never be able to tell us what it was that they were guarding on board the Maersk.I just hope the CIA don’t have to sacrifice the passengers and crew to keep their secret.Anyway, thats one of my theories.The recent satellite photos look simular to the sucky NASA photos of Ison they gave us.MSM says the debris is in over a mile deep part of the ocean.It will be hard to find if it slips beneath the waves before rescu parties can get there.But it has been floating around for how many days now?I’m sure they will still make a positive ID though and that will be that.


    Missing Malaysian flight MH370: Maldives islanders saw ‘low flying plane’
    Updated 18 March 2014 07:09 PM

    Malaysia officials at a press conference regarding missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner MH370 (AP)

    REPORTS from a Maldives news organisation today said that islanders saw a “low flying jumbo jet”.

    The Haveeru news website has reported that witnesses saw a plane flying low at around 6.15am on March 8.

    It was flying north to south-west, according to the report.

    “I’ve never seen a jet flying so low over our island before,” a witness told the organisation.

    “We’ve seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly.

    “It’s not just me either, several other residents have reported seeing the exact same thing. Some people got out of their houses to see what was causing the tremendous noise too.”

    Earlier furious Chinese families have threatened to go on hunger strike until the Malaysian government tells them the truth about the fate of their relatives aboard a Malaysia Airlines flight which went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

    Ten days after the airliner vanished an hour into its flight, hundreds of family members are still waiting for information in a Beijing hotel.

    Around two thirds of the 239 passengers on board Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 are Chinese.

    Families vented their pain and anger on Chinese representatives sent by the airline to meet them on Tuesday and demanded to see the Malaysian ambassador.

    “What we want is the truth. Don’t let them become victims of politics. No matter what political party you are, no matter how much power you have, if there isn’t life, what’s the point? Where is compassion?” asked one middle-aged woman angrily.

    “You’re always going back and forth. I think your government knows in their heart why we want you to answer us. Because you’re always tricking us, telling us lies,” added one man.

    China has repeatedly called on the Malaysian side to do a better job at looking after the relatives of the Chinese passengers, and to provide them with updated information.

    “China has all along demanded that the Malaysian side and Malaysia Airlines earnestly respond to the reasonable requests of the Chinese families,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a daily news briefing.


    Did Missing Flight MH370 Land In The Maldives Or Diego Garcia: The Full Updated Summary
    Tyler Durden on 03/18/2014 22:58 -0400

    Well over a week after the disappearance of flight MH370 – which now is the longest official disappearance of a modern jet in aviation history – with no official trace of the missing plane yet revealed, the investigation, which as we reported over the weekend has focused on the pilots and specifically on Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, earlier today revealed that on his home-made flight simulator had been loaded five Indian Ocean practice runways, among which those of Male in the Maldives, that of the US owned base at Sergio Garcia, as well as other runways in India and Sri Lanka – all notable runways as all are possible landing spots based on the flight’s potential trajectories. The Malay Mail Online reported, “The simulation programmes are based on runways at the Male International Airport in Maldives, an airport owned by the United States (Diego Garcia), and three other runways in India and Sri Lanka, all have runway lengths of 1,000 metres.”

    “We are not discounting the possibility that the plane landed on a runway that might not be heavily monitored, in addition to the theories that the plane landed on sea, in the hills, or in an open space,” the source was quoted as saying.

    At this point the facts in the case are about as sketchy as any “data” on US Treasury holdings, but here is what was said on the record:
    “Although Malay Defence Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein denied yesterday that the plane had landed at US military base Diego Garcia, the source told the daily that this possibility will still be investigated based on the data found in Zaharie’s flight simulator software. The police had seized the flight simulator from the 53-year-old pilot’s house in Shah Alam on Saturday and reassembled it at the police headquarters where experts are conducting checks.”

    Previous reports indicated that the plane flew towards Checkpoint Gival, south of the Thai island of Phuket, and was last plotted heading northwest towards another checkpoint, Igrex, used for route P628 that would take it over the Andaman Islands and which carriers use to fly towards Europe.

    Still, the Maldives news is of particular note since earlier today, Haaveru Online, quoted locals who said they had seen a “low flying jet” whose description is approximate to what flight MH370 looked like. From the source:

    Whilst the disappearance of the Boeing 777 jet, carrying 239 passengers has left the whole world in bewilderment, several residents of Kuda Huvadhoo told Haveeru on Tuesday that they saw a “low flying jumbo jet” at around 6:15am on March 8.

    They said that it was a white aircraft, with red stripes across it – which is what the Malaysia Airlines flights typically look like.

    Eyewitnesses from the Kuda Huvadhoo concurred that the aeroplane was travelling North to South-East, towards the Southern tip of the Maldives – Addu. They also noted the incredibly loud noise that the flight made when it flew over the island.

    “I’ve never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We’ve seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly,” said an eyewitness.

    “It’s not just me either, several other residents have reported seeing the exact same thing. Some people got out of their houses to see what was causing the tremendous noise too.”

    A local aviation expert told Haveeru that it is “likely” for MH370 to have flown over the Maldives. The possibility of any aircraft flying over the island at the reported time is extremely low, the expert added.

    So did the pilot hijack the plane, reprogram the flight path, turn off the transponder, and fly low above the surface and below radar all the way to the Maldives, or alternatively, US airbase, Diego Garcia, where Captain Shah promptly offloaded 20+ tons of still unknown cargo? Some experts opine on just this, by way of the Telegraph:

    If the Maldive lead turns out to be a strong one, then the next question is: could the plane conceivably have flown to Somalia? Or somewhere in the southern Arabian peninsula or Iran? Somalia seems a much more likely destination for a hijacker with its known al-Qaeda connections.

    And this:
    Kaminski Morrow adds:
    – The plane, a Boeing 777-200, was capable of travelling as far as the Maldives
    – Male is the main airport but the sighting appears to have come from an atoll a long way south
    – Commercial aircraft-tracking software, while not always reliable, doesn’t seem to show any other nearby traffic with which a sighting might have been confused
    It is all hugely, hugely tentative – and I wouldn’t want to vouch for the newspaper which is the source of this information.
    But theoretically it could be possible.
    The vital detail is the fuel; Malaysia Airlines has not said how much fuel was on board, other than to say “enough for the trip to Beijing”.
    Therefore we can’t tell if that was enough to loop around and make it back to the Maldives.

    So far there have been few firm theories about MH370 having landed on the US airbase in the middle of the Indian Ocean, some 800 miles south of Male in the Maldives.

    ABC had this to say:
    Theories about what happened to missing Malaysia Flight MH370 now span a 2 million-plus square mile area of open ocean and southeast Asian land, including one mysterious island in the Indian Ocean known as Diego Garcia.
    While aviation experts and armchair theorists continue to come up with plausible locations, the jet could have landed or crashed. Many theories have included Diego Garcia as a notable landing strip.
    The island atoll is a British territory in the central Indian Ocean and is home to a United States Navy support facility – not exactly a U.S. base, but a home for 1700 military personnel, 1,500 civilian contractors, and various Naval equipment.
    The island – named after 16th century Spanish explorer Diego Garcia de Moguer – gained some notoriety in the past 10 years after reports claimed that the U.S. used Diego Garcia to transport and detain alleged terrorists.

    Expect the US military to have zero official comments on the matter, and even less if indeed MH370 landed there, or merely used the base as a transit stop on its route further west, potentially to Africa.

    • * *

    There are other theories of course, some of which involve none other than such aviation experts as US politicians.

    Michael McCaul, a Republican congressman from Texas, who chairs the House Homeland Security Committee, said that the plane may have actually landed and could be used by terrorist groups.

    John Cornyn, a senator from Texas, helpfully tweeted a link to possible runways where the plane could have landed.

    Peter King, a Republican congressman representing New York, suggests the Chinese have doctored some of their satellite images to hide the sophistication of their systems.
    But Mr King said he was not aware of terrorist “chatter”. He said on This Week:
    QuoteNo, there’s been no terrorist connections whatsoever. There’s been no terrorist chatter. There’s nothing out there indicating it’s terrorists. Doesn’t mean it’s not, but so far nothing has been picked up by the intelligence community from Day One.
    I still have questions about the two Iranians who were on the plane, but again, that could be a side issue. The fact is nothing has come up indicating a terrorist nexus.

    Going back to what is known, here is a full and updated timeline of all events that took place, by way of BBC:

    The search operation is now concentrating on huge areas to the north and south of Malaysia, after locational ‘pings’ detected by a satellite appeared to indicate the plane was somewhere on an arc stretching either north up to to Central Asia, or south, to the Indian Ocean and Australia.

    Evidence revealed on Saturday 15 March by the Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak suggested the jet was deliberately diverted by someone on board about an hour after takeoff.

    Flight MH370 departed from Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 00:41 on Saturday (16:41 GMT Friday), and was due to arrive in Beijing at 06:30 (22:30 GMT).

    Malaysia Airlines says the plane lost contact less than an hour after takeoff.

    No distress signal or message was sent.

    The ACARS – a service that allows computers aboard the plane to “talk” to computers on the ground – was silenced some time after 01:07 as the plane crossed Malaysia’s east coast.

    At about 01:19 the co-pilot was heard to say: “All right, good night”.

    The plane’s transponder, which communicates with ground radar, was shut down soon after this final communication, as the aircraft crossed from Malaysian air traffic control into Vietnamese airspace over the South China Sea.

    At 01:37 the next ACARS transmission was due, but never sent.

    What happened next?

    The plane’s planned route would have taken it north-eastwards, over Cambodia and Vietnam, and the initial search focused on the South China Sea, south of Vietnam’s Ca Mau peninsula.

    But evidence from a military radar, revealed later, suggested the plane had suddenly changed from its northerly course to head west. So the search, involving dozens of ships and planes, then switched to the sea west of Malaysia.

    MH370’s last communication with a satellite, disclosed a week after the plane’s disappearance, suggested the jet was in one of two flight corridors, one stretching north between Thailand and Kazakhstan, the other south between Indonesia and the southern Indian Ocean.

    The timing of the last confirmed communication with a satellite was 08:11 (00:11 GMT), meaning that the Boeing continued flying for nearly seven hours after contact with air traffic control was lost.

    Investigators are making further calculations to establish how far the plane might have flown after the last point of contact.

    Who was on board?

    Muhammad Razahan Zamani (bottom right), 24, and his wife Norli Akmar Hamid, 33, were on their honeymoon on the missing flight. The phone is being held by his stepsister, Arni Marlina

    The 12 crew members were all Malaysian, led by pilots Captain Zaharie Ahmed Shah, 53 and 27-year-old co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid.

    Police have searched their homes and a flight simulator has been taken from the captain’s home and reassembled for examination at police headquarters.

    It is now believed that co-pilot Hamid spoke the last words heard from the plane, “All right, good night” – but it it not clear whether this was before or after the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) had been deliberately switched off.

    There were 227 passengers, including 153 Chinese and 38 Malaysians, according to the manifest. Seven were children.

    Other passengers came from Iran, the US, Canada, Indonesia, Australia, India, France, New Zealand, Ukraine, Russia, Taiwan and the Netherlands.

    Among the Chinese nationals were a delegation of 19 prominent artists who had attended an exhibition in Kuala Lumpur.

    With so many of their nationals aboard, the Chinese Government has been very involved in the search, expressing barely-concealed frustration with the lack of progress.

    Malaysia Airlines said there were four passengers who checked in for the flight but did not show up at the airport.

    Malaysia plane: Who were the passengers?

    Could it have been a terrorist attack?

    Malaysian PM Najib Razak, 15 March 2014The plane was deliberately diverted, the Malaysian PM told a news conference

    The aircraft’s change of direction was consistent with “deliberate action on the plane”, the Malaysian authorities said.

    But it remains unclear whether the course change was carried out by the air crew or flight-trained hijackers onboard.

    So far no known or credible terror group has emerged to claim responsibility.

    Initial investigations concentrated on two passengers found to be travelling on stolen passports.

    The two Iranian men – 19-year-old Pouria Nour Mohammad Mehrdad and Delavar Seyed Mohammadreza, 29 – were later found to headed for Europe via Beijing, and had no apparent links to terrorist groups.

    Other theories for a crash

    A Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER taking off from Narita Airport near Tokyo, Japan, last year

    Some initial theories suggested that the aircraft could have suffered a disastrous mid-air decompression, but Malaysian authorities say they are now almost entirely focused on the actions of the crew.

    Captain Zaharie Ahmed Shah, who had more than 18,000 flying hours behind him, had been employed by the airline since 1981.

    Weather conditions for this flight were good.

    Malaysia Airlines has a good safety record and the jet, a Boeing 777-200ER, is said to be one of the safest because of its modern technology.

    • * *

    Finally, for those who still have lingering questions, here also from the BBC, is a compendium of 10 theories attempting to explain the fate of the missing airliner.

    1. Landed in the Andaman Islands

    The plane was apparently at one stage heading in the direction of India’s Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the most easterly part of Indian territory, which lies between Indonesia and the coast of Thailand and Burma. It has been reported that military radar there might not even have been operating, as the threat level is generally perceived to be low.

    The editor of the islands’ Andaman Chronicle newspaper dismisses the notion that the aircraft could be there. There are four airstrips but planes landing would be spotted, he told CNN. He also believed monitoring by the Indian military would prevent an airliner being able to land there unnoticed. But this is an isolated spot. There are more than 570 islands, only 36 of which are inhabited. If the plane had been stolen, this might be the best place to land it secretly, says Steve Buzdygan, a former BA 777 pilot. It would be difficult, but not impossible, to land on the beach, he says. At least 5,000ft (1500m) or so would make a long enough strip to land on.

    It would be theoretically possible but extremely difficult. With such a heavy aeroplane, using the landing gear might lead to the wheels digging into the sand and sections of undercarriage being ripped off. “If I was landing on a beach I would keep the wheels up,” says Buzdygan. But in this type of crash landing, the danger would also be damage to the wings, which are full of fuel, causing an explosion. Even if landed safely, it is unlikely the plane would be able to take off again.

    2. Flew to Kazakhstan

    The Central Asian republic is at the far end of the northern search corridor, so the plane could hypothetically have landed there. Light aircraft pilot Sylvia Wrigley, author of Why Planes Crash, says landing in a desert might be possible and certainly more likely than landing on a beach somewhere. “To pull this off, you are looking at landing in an incredibly isolated area,” says Wrigley. The failure so far to release a cargo manifest has created wild rumours about a valuable load that could be a motive for hijacking. There has also been speculation that some of those on board were billionaires.

    But the plane would have been detected, the Kazakh Civil Aviation Committee said in a detailed statement sent to Reuters. And there’s an even more obvious problem. The plane would have had to cross the airspace of countries like India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, which are all usually in a high state of military preparedness. But it’s just possible that there are weak links in the radar systems of some of the countries en route to Central Asia, Wrigley speculates. “A lot of air traffic control gear is old. They might be used to getting false positives from flocks of birds and, therefore, it would be easy to discount it.”

    3. It flew south

    The final satellite “ping” suggests the plane was still operational for at least five or six hours after leaving Malaysian radar range. For Norman Shanks, former head of group security at airports group BAA, and professor of aviation security at Coventry University, the search should therefore start from the extremes of the corridors and work up, rather than the other way around. He thinks the southern corridor is more likely for a plane that has so far avoided detection by radar.

    The southern arc leads to the huge open spaces of the Indian Ocean, and then to Australia’s empty northern hinterland. Without knowing the motive, it is hard to speculate where the plane’s final destination was intended to be. But the plane may just have carried on until it ran out of fuel and then glided and crashed into the sea somewhere north of Australia.

    4. Taklamakan Desert, north-west China

    There has been speculation on forums that the plane could have been commandeered by China’s Uighur Muslim separatists. Out of the plane’s 239 passengers, 153 were Chinese citizens. One possible destination in this theory would be China’s Taklamakan Desert. The region – described by Encyclopaedia Britannica as a “great desert of Central Asia and one of the largest sandy deserts in the world” – has no shortage of space far from prying eyes. The BBC’s Jonah Fisher tweeted on 15 March: “Being briefed by Malaysia officials they believe most likely location for MH370 is on land somewhere near Chinese/Kyrgyz border.”

    But again, this theory rests on an extraordinary run through the radar systems of several countries.

    5. It was flown towards Langkawi island because of a fire or other malfunction

    The loss of transponders and communications could be explained by a fire, aviation blogger Chris Goodfellow has suggested. The left turn that the plane made, deviating from the route to Beijing, could have been a bid to reach safety, he argues. “This pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make that immediate turn back to the closest safe airport.” He aimed to avoid crashing into a city or high ridges, Goodfellow argues. “Actually he was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000ft (4,000m) strip with an approach over water at night with no obstacles. He did not turn back to Kuala Lumpur because he knew he had 8,000ft ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier towards Langkawi and also a shorter distance.” In this theory it would be assumed that the airliner did not make it to Langkawi and crashed into the sea.

    But Goodfellow’s theory has been disputed. If the course was changed during a major emergency, one might expect it to be done using manual control. But the left turn was the result of someone in the cockpit typing “seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials”, the New York Times reported. The paper says this “has reinforced the belief of investigators – first voiced by Malaysian officials – that the plane was deliberately diverted and that foul play was involved.”

    6. The plane is in Pakistan

    Media tycoon Rupert Murdoch has tweeted: “World seems transfixed by 777 disappearance. Maybe no crash but stolen, effectively hidden, perhaps in northern Pakistan, like Bin Laden.” But Pakistan has strenuously denied that this would be possible. The country’s assistant to the prime minister on aviation, Shujaat Azeem, has been reported as saying: “Pakistan’s civil aviation radars never spotted this jet, so how it could be hidden somewhere in Pakistan?” Like the Kazakhstan theory, this all seems far-fetched, not least because the junction between Indian and Pakistani air space is one of the most watched sectors in the world by military radar. And despite the remoteness and lawlessness of northern Pakistan, the region is watched closely by satellites and drones. It seems scarcely believable to think an airliner could get there unspotted.

    7. The plane hid in the shadow of another airliner

    Aviation blogger Keith Ledgerwood believes the missing plane hid in the radar shadow of Singapore Airlines flight 68. The Singaporean airliner was in the same vicinity as the Malaysian plane, he argues. “It became apparent as I inspected SIA68’s flight path history that MH370 had manoeuvred itself directly behind SIA68 at approximately 18:00UTC and over the next 15 minutes had been following SIA68.” He believes that the Singaporean airliner would have disguised the missing plane from radar controllers on the ground. “It is my belief that MH370 likely flew in the shadow of SIA68 through India and Afghanistan airspace. As MH370 was flying ‘dark’ without a transponder, SIA68 would have had no knowledge that MH370 was anywhere around, and as it entered Indian airspace, it would have shown up as one single blip on the radar with only the transponder information of SIA68 lighting up ATC and military radar screens.” The Singapore Airlines plane flew on to Spain. The Malaysian jet could have branched off. “There are several locations along the flight path of SIA68 where it could have easily broken contact and flown and landed in Xinjiang, Kyrgyzstan, or Turkmenistan,” Ledgerwood argues.

    Prof Hugh Griffiths, radar expert at University College London, says it sounds feasible. But there is a difference between military and civilian radar. Civilian radar works by means of a transponder carried by the aircraft – a system known as secondary radar. The military use primary radar and this “ought to be higher resolution”. So how close would the two planes need to be? He estimates about 1000m (3300ft). It is possible military radar would be able to pick up that there were two objects, he says. “It might be able to tell the difference, to know that there are two targets.” If this happens, though, there’s then the question of how this is interpreted on the ground. Is it a strange echo that would be discounted? When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, although the US radar operator detected the incoming aircraft, they were dismissed as US bombers arriving from the mainland.

    8. There was a struggle

    One of the hardest things to account for so far with an innocent explanation is the way the plane was flown erratically. It went far above its “ceiling”, flying at 45,000ft (13,716m) before later flying very low. Big fluctuations in altitude suggest there might have been a struggle, says Buzdygan. Post-9/11, cockpit doors have been strengthened against the possibility of hijack but there are still scenarios where access could be gained. Pilots talk to each other “over a beer” about how they’d deal with hijackers, he says. Buzdygan would have had no qualms about flying aggressively to try to resist a hijack. “I’d try to disorientate and confuse the hijackers by throwing them around,” he says.

    9. The passengers were deliberately killed by decompression

    Another theory circulating is that the plane was taken up to 45,000ft to kill the passengers quickly, former RAF navigator Sean Maffett says. The supposed motive for this might have been primarily to stop the passengers using mobile phones, once the plane descended to a much lower altitude. At 45,000ft, the Boeing 777 is way above its normal operating height. And it is possible to depressurise the cabin, notes Maffett. Oxygen masks would automatically deploy. They would run out after 12-15 minutes. The passengers – as with carbon monoxide poisoning – would slip into unconsciousness and die, he argues. But whoever was in control of the plane would also perish in this scenario, unless they had access to some other form of oxygen supply.

    10. The plane will take off again to be used in a terrorist attack

    One of the more outlandish theories is that the plane has been stolen by terrorists to commit a 9/11 style atrocity. It has been landed safely, hidden or camouflaged, will be refuelled and fitted with a new transponder before taking off to attack a city. It would be very hard to land a plane, hide it and then take off again, Maffett suggested. But it can’t be ruled out. “We are now at stage where very, very difficult things have to be considered as all sensible options seem to have dropped off,” he says. It is not clear even whether a plane could be refitted with a new transponder and given a totally new identity in this way, he says. Others would say that while it is just about feasible the plane could be landed in secret, it is unlikely it would be in a fit state to take off again.

    The even more far-fetched

    Many of the above theories might seem far-fetched but there are even more outlandish-sounding ones out there.

    If the plane had flown up the northern corridor, experts maintain it would probably have triggered primary radar. Key countries whose airspace it might have crossed are Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, China, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, or Thailand. After 9/11, an unidentified airliner entering sovereign airspace is likely to lead to fighters being scrambled, says Maffett. “If the plane is in the northern arc it could easily have been shot down.” It’s a theory circulating on some forums. The notion is that no-one would want to admit shooting down an airliner full of passengers, Maffett says, and thus might currently be concealing the event.

    But there are a host of holes in the theory. Firstly, the plane would still have had to avoid numerous radar systems before finally triggering one. And the nation responsible would be trying to keep secret the fate of the world’s currently most-searched for object. Covering up the incident for so long would arguably make the shooting down look far worse.

    A completely different thread of conspiracy theory assumes a sympathetic regime. The scepticism about flying undetected through radar changes somewhat if the hijackers are in cahoots with a country’s government. There are several authoritarian regimes within the aircraft’s range, but the conspiracy theory doesn’t even require a government’s co-operation – the hijackers could just be in cahoots with radar operators. Again, this seems to be a conspiracy of incredible complexity to be kept secret for this length of time. And what would the motive be for those colluding?

    • * *

    Motive? We don’t know. But then again, neither we nor anyone else appears to have seen the full cargo manifest yet, which as we said early last week may hold all the answers, and frankly we find it surprising that in a case of such magnitude this most critical unknown has been largely left untouched by everyone.

    The Links

    longest official disappearance


    Malay Mail Online


    Haaveru Online




    ABC had this to say


    US politicians


    deliberately diverted by someone on board about an hour after takeoff.


    Malaysia plane: Who were the passengers?


    has been reported


    he told CNN


    in a detailed statement


    Jonah Fisher tweeted

    Goodfellow argues

    New York Times reported


    Shujaat Azeem has been reported


    Keith Ledgerwood argues


    The Comments

    Occident Mortal, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 18:36 | 4565448
    The main suspect has to be Malaysia.
    The plane is in Malaysia.
    Who controls the search? Who keeps releasing conflicting information? Who keeps denying new information until it becomes untenable?
    Who is withholding the cargo manifest?
    Malaysia, Malaysia, Malaysia.

    Keyser, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 18:44 | 4565479
    I don’t think think the Malaysian’s are sophisticated enough to put together all the logistics required to pull this off. It has all the earmarks of a US alphabet soup operation. The key is just what was the 20 tons of cargo. If it was gold bullion, then the value of the bounty outweighs the lives of 239 people and a 777… My money is on the plane sitting on the ground in the Maldives.

    Cacete de Ouro, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 19:05 | 4565554
    The plane landed on Diego Garcia because it was being remotely flown in from a control center on Diego Garcia to land there…


    “Boeing last week received a US patent for a system that, once activated, removes all control from pilots to automatically return a commercial airliner to a predetermined landing location.
    The “uninterruptible” autopilot would be activated – either by pilots, by onboard sensors, or even remotely via radio or satellite links by government agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency, if terrorists attempt to gain control of a flight deck.
    Boeing says: “We are constantly studying ways we can enhance the safety, security and effiecency of the world’s airline fleet.”

    philipat, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 20:43 | 4565890
    Male is a busy airport open 24/7. Same for the Indian and SriLankan airports. Diego Garcia is a US/UK Military base favoured by the alphabet soup agencies for quiet chats with disappeared folks. It’s not as though nobody would notice a 772 landing.

    TahoeBilly2012, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 22:20 | 4566233
    I’ve read that site before. Those are some interesting suggestions on “stagey-ness” of the mourners no doubt. My problem with theories like this, same as 9-11 (and 9-11 stinks for sure) but how do you get some many bad people to play along?

    GetZeeGold, Wed, 03/19/2014 – 06:32 | 4566788
    Freescale Semiconductor
    Chinese aircraft stealth technology. Twenty employees on board. Hardware and software in the cargo hold.
    Trust no one.


    The two fake passports found the very first day was a nice touch.

    vie, Wed, 03/19/2014 – 01:37 | 4566611
    Pay them well, with the promise of future jobs if they keep their yap shut, or unfortunate accidents if they don’t. Sandy Hook in particular seemed to be near the East Coast head quarters of the “Church of Satan”, along with all the pictures of people throwing devil horns including gramps and one of the people involved was supposedly related to Anton Levy. Whether or not that was part of the psyop, who knows? But Satanists apparently get their rocks off on decieving people. How’s that for a church outing?

    sleigher, Wed, 03/19/2014 – 08:24 | 4566948
    Nah. That church of satan that was run by anton levay would have a hard time holding a bake sale. No way were they involved in sandy hook.

    merizobeach, Wed, 03/19/2014 – 04:31 | 4566734
    “how do you get some many bad people to play along?”
    Perhaps it helps if many of them speak a common non-English language.. L’chaim!

    kchrisc, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 22:46 | 4566311
    I hope someone farted because it’s beginning to stink.

    IEVI, Wed, 03/19/2014 – 00:13 | 4566490
    Maybe not a hoax, just a huge distraction.
    My guess is that whenever people lose interest in the story, that’s when we’ll find out what really happened to the plane.
    This seems like a logical analysis that just isn’t as interesting, or as distracting, as all the speculation.


    Lore, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 21:20 | 4566016
    If it was carrying drugs, it probably had a full military escort.
    …Just kidding!
    If it was carrying bullion, it probably had a full military escort.
    …Just kidding again!

    johnQpublic, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 20:08 | 4565758
    on diego garcia with germanys gold

    J S Bach, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 20:23 | 4565795
    C’mon. By now, everyone with a brain knows it was an alien abduction.
    They’ll all come out of Devil’s Tower in Wyoming in a few weeks.
    D – E – C- Octave Lower C – G

    Stackers, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 20:36 | 4565869
    Classic alien abduction

    Lore, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 21:18 | 4566019
    “Reptilian” = Close Enough

    ramacers, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 21:16 | 4566014
    best explanation i’ve heard yet. in jan 2013 germany requested immediate repatriation of gold held by JPM (in vault underground in manhattan) , about 600 tons = 3 trillion , yet to date they only got back 2%. what gives? is this why 11 banker/traders associated with JPM are dead in recent months?

    CheapBastard, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 19:44 | 4565672
    I’m beginning to wonder what was so valuable or dangerous in the cargo as someone mentioned the other day. Gold? Platinum?
    Is it possible Elvis was aboard? Michael Jackson? Big Foot? [disguised, of course]

    Keyser, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 21:09 | 4565979
    Ever since the Belgians became the 3rd largest holder of US paper, I’m thinking Dr Evil has something to do with all these shenanigans.

    Quus Ant, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 23:12 | 4566356
    Huffpost headline: GONE FOREVER?
    What if the plane just disappeared like a fart in the wind? Like a sock in the dryer.
    “When something like this happens that confounds us, we’re offended by it, and we’re scared by it,” said Ric Gillespie, a former U.S. aviation accident investigator who wrote a book about Earhart’s still-unsolved 1937 disappearance over the Pacific Ocean. “We had the illusion of control and it’s just been shown to us that oh, folks, you know what? A really big airliner can just vanish. And nobody wants to hear that.”
    This isn’t 1937. My god, I can’t believe this shit, but I know a lot of people who will.

    macholatte, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 18:55 | 4565517
    Truth or Propaganda:
    Russia “Puzzled” Over Malaysia Airlines “Capture” By US Navy


    McMolotov, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 19:09 | 4565569
    I heard from a giant bunny named Frank that one of the engines landed in Donnie Darko’s bedroom.

    Bollixed, Tue, 03/18/2014 – 20:25 | 4565823
    The odds of hiding such a large plane beyond the reach of Twitter or Farcebook users is astronomical. Everyone wants the notoriety of being the first one to Tweet or Facepost/Instagram an image of the found plane. Add in doing it as a ‘selfie’ with the plane in the background and it gets beyond irresistable.
    The plane either crashed or is in the hands of some yet undiscovered tribes people who don’t have wifi.


    Flight MH370 Mystery. Diego Garcia Suspended All Flights On March 8th for 72 hrs.
    Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:05

    By now, it should be obvious to people they are hiding something in Diego Garcia. The latest info just piles on top of a mountain of evidence that flight 370 is in a hangar in Diego Garcia.


    Notice the date of the facebook post. March 8th. Now go to the facebook page.


    Notice they have completely erased all posts between March 6th, and March 9th. There is some very weird stuff going on down in creepy Diego Garcia, a place where the US operates completely independant of the constitution.

    Edit to add, here is a link to the Diego Garcia Passenger facebook page with the March 8th flight schedule. Notice all other flight schedules throughout the month all had several flights schedules. The fact that no flight were scheduled for 3 days during the time MH370 went missing, all maintenance crew most likely were off on leave. Great time to sneak in an aircraft.



    FBI analyse Malaysian Airlines pilot’s home flight simulator as it’s revealed he deleted data one month prior to taking control of missing MH370 plane
    By Jill Reilly
    PUBLISHED: 10:19 GMT, 19 March 2014 | UPDATED: 19:59 GMT, 19 March 2014

    * FBI are looking at electronic files deleted from pilot’s home flight simulator
    * Hoped files will give help discover what happened to missing MH370
    * Simulator taken from pilot’s home outside Kuala Lumpur at the weekend
    * Investigators said today data had been deleted but they are retrieving it
    * Best friend tells MailOnline simulator is ‘nothing special, just a hobby’

    The FBI has been called in to help analyse the home flight simulator belonging to the pilot of the missing Malaysian Airlines plane.

    A US official, speaking anonymously, says the FBI is currently working on data from the simulator while Malaysia’s defense minister says investigators are trying to restore files.

    It is thought the files were deleted last month by pilot Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah. Files containing records of simulations carried out on the program were deleted February 3.

    Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday U.S. investigators are prepared to help any way they can.

    Diego Garcia, a remote island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with a runway long enough to land a Boeing 777 was programmed into the home flight simulator of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, it has been revealed

    Police are now urgently investigating whether Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had practised landing at Diego Garcia, an island south of the Maldives occupied by the US navy

    Malaysia’s defense minister Hishammuddin Hussein told a news conference that the pilot, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah, is considered innocent until proven guilty of any wrongdoing, and that members of his family are cooperating in the investigation.

    Deleting files would not necessarily represent anything unusual, especially if it were to free up memory space, but investigators would want to check the files for any signs of unusual flight paths that could help explain where the missing plane went.

    Today it was also revealed that a remote island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with a runway long enough to land a Boeing 777 was programmed into the home flight simulator of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.

    Police are now urgently investigating whether Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had practised landing at Diego Garcia, an island south of the Maldives occupied by the US navy.

    People on the island of Kuda Huvadhoo reported seeing ”low flying jumbo jet’ on the morning of the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370

    Police seized the simulator from his home outside Kuala Lumpur over the weekend and reassembled it at police headquarters, hoping for information on the flight’s fate.

    The investigation into the Diego Garcia, an overseas territory of the UK, which is rented to the US and is now a huge American naval base follows fresh eyewitness accounts of a ‘low flying jumbo jet’ being spotted in the Maldives.

    People on the island of Kuda Huvadhoo reported seeing a plane on the morning of the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, according to a Haveeru, a news website in the Maldives.
    Islanders said a white aircraft with red stripes across it – which would match the missing plane – was seen travelling North to South-East towards Addu, the southern tip of the Maldives.

    An eyewitness told the website: ‘I’ve never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We’ve seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly.

    ‘It’s not just me either, several other residents have reported seeing the exact same thing. Some people got out of their houses to see what was causing the tremendous noise too.’

    Captain Shah, a father-of-three, was passionate about his simulator, which he built using off-the-shelf parts.

    Police seized simulator (pictured) from Zaharie’s home outside Kuala Lumpur over the weekend and reassembled it at police headquarters, hoping for information on the flight’s fate

    Peter Chong holds up his smartphone to show a photo of himself with best friend Captain Zaharie. He told MailOnline: ‘His hobby was flying. It’s nothing special. He loves flying and he wants to share with my his friends. He was open to his friends’

    His best friend Peter Chong insisted the simulator was just for fun and told MailOnline: ‘His hobby was flying. It’s nothing special. He loves flying and he wants to share with my his friends. He was open to his friends.’

    Capt Zaharie had joined an online flight simulator community called X-Sim and after making his simulator, in November 2012 he posted a message about its ‘awesome view’ inviting ‘buddies’ to get in touch so they could take the simulator ‘to the next level of simulation. Motion!’

    ‘Elo guys, zaharie here,’ says the post.

    ‘Awesome view on 3 panasonic 32 in. LCD HDMI and and 3 touchscreen Dell 21 inches for main (MCP) , center pedestal, overhead panel.

    ‘Time to take to the next level of simulation.Motion! looking for buddies to share this passion.

    ‘Capt Zaharie Ahmad Shah, BOEING 777 MALAYSIA AIRLINES.’

    Probe: Police in Malaysia searched the home of pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah (right) and Fariq Abdul Hamid (left) after officials confirmed the plane was taken over by a ‘deliberate act’

    Investigators probing the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines jetliner with 239 people on board believe it most likely flew into the southern Indian Ocean, a source close to the investigation said today.

    No wreckage has been found from Flight MH370, which vanished from air traffic control screens off Malaysia’s east coast at 1:21 a.m. local time on March 8 (1721 GMT March 7), less than an hour after taking off from Kuala Lumpur bound for Beijing.

    An unprecedented search for the Boeing 777-200ER is under way involving 26 nations in two vast search ‘corridors': one arcing north overland from Laos towards the Caspian Sea, the other curving south across the Indian Ocean from west of Indonesia’s Sumatra island to west of Australia.

    ‘The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor,’ said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    The view is based on the lack of any evidence from countries along the northern corridor that the plane entered their airspace, and the failure to find any trace of wreckage in searches in the upper part of the southern corridor.

    A relative of a Chinese passenger aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 shows a paper reading ‘Hunger strike protest, Respect life, Return my relative, Don’t want become victim of politics, Tell the truth’

    Families of the passengers aboard the missing plane decided to organize a hunger strike to express their anger and disappointment at the handling of the situation by authorities

    China, which is leading the northern corridor search with Kazakhstan, said it had not yet found any sign of the aircraft crossing into its territory.

    Malaysian and U.S. officials believe the aircraft was deliberately diverted perhaps thousands of miles off course, but an exhaustive background search of the passengers and crew aboard has not yielded anything that might explain why.

    The minister in charge of the operation said the multinational search team was deploying the most sophisticated equipment available to find the plane.

    ‘It probably is the largest peacetime armada of assets and satellite information-sharing that we have ever seen for a rescue and search operation,’ Malaysia’s Acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said.

    Officials believe that someone with detailed knowledge of both the Boeing 777 and commercial aviation navigation switched off two vital datalinks: the ACARS system, which relays maintenance data back to the ground, and the transponder, which enables the plane to be seen by civilian radar.

    The source close to the investigation said that it was thought ‘highly probable that ACARS was switched off prior to the final verbal message’ received for the cockpit.

    A pilot of an AP-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft scanning the surface of the sea during a search operation for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 to the west of Peninsula Malaysia

    Two RAAF Orions have been assigned to the Malaysian-coordinated search for Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370

    That message, an informal ‘all right, good night’ radioed to Malaysian air traffic controllers to acknowledge their handover of the plane to Vietnamese airspace, was believed to have been spoken by the co-pilot, the airline said earlier this week.

    Investigators piecing together patchy data from military radar and satellites believe that minutes later the plane turned sharply west, re-crossing the Malay Peninsula and following an established commercial route towards India.

    After that, ephemeral pings picked up by one commercial satellite suggest the aircraft flew on for at least six hours. The data from the satellite placed the plane somewhere in one of the two corridors when the final signal was sent at 8:11 a.m.

    The methodical shutdown of the communications systems, together with the fact that the plane appeared to be following a planned course after turning back, have been interpreted as suggesting strongly that foul play, rather than some kind of technical failure, was behind the disappearance.

    Last week, a source familiar with official U.S. assessments said it was thought most likely the plane flew south, where it presumably would have run out of fuel and crashed into the sea.

    On board: Student Firman Siregar, pictured centre with his family, was one of the 239 aboard Flight MH370

    Peter Chong (left) with best friend Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane. He is pictured in a T-shirt with a Democracy is Dead slogan as police investigate claims he could have hijacked the plane as an anti-government protest

    If it did indeed end up in the southern Indian Ocean, one of the remotest places on Earth and also one of the deepest seas, it increases the chance it may never be found – and investigators may never know for sure what happened on board.

    U.S. government sources said intelligence agencies had extensively analysed people on the flight but came up with no connections to terrorism or possible criminal motives.

    A senior U.S. official said he was ‘not aware of any stones left unturned’. China has said there is no evidence that Chinese passengers, who made up over two-thirds of those on board, were involved in a hijack or act of sabotage.

    Australia is leading the search of the southern part of the southern corridor, with assistance from the U.S. Navy.

    It has shrunk its search field based on satellite tracking data and analysis of weather and currents, but it still covers an area of 600,000 sq km (230,000 sq miles), roughly the size of Spain and Portugal.

    The U.S. Navy said it had switched mainly to using P-8A Poseidon and P-3 Orion aircraft to search for the missing plane instead of ships and helicopters.

    ‘The maritime patrol aircraft are much more suited for this type of operation,’ said Navy Lieutenant David Levy, who is on board the USS Blue Ridge. ‘…It’s just a much more efficient way to search.’

    just my thoughts and opinions, Small Town USA
    if he was guilty why leave a computer at home for police to find? why would he post youtube video about is long time ago? why would he share his joy of flying with friends if he was guilty. things just don’t add up one way or another, but be respectful to his family and stop making him out to be the bad guy until they have actual proof and make a formal statement about that. which they haven’t yet.

    just my thoughts and opinions, Small Town USA
    get your facts straight before commenting please. lots of false info posted from half baked media articles that were not corrected after debunked.

    Wizard, Gibraltar Michigan, United States
    Here are the facts: plane is missing. We cant find it. Pilots wife and children are missing too. We cant find them. That is all we know to be fact. All else is guessing.


    Malaysia air flight 370 is no doubt at Diego Garcia, why would they do this?

    Diego Garcia suspended ALL incoming flights between March 8th-10th……

    There were high level semiconductor engineers and other in the military technology defense industry

    There is zero doubt 100% USA hijacked the flight via AWACS and took it to Diego Garcia




    Update 1: Maldives Islands had several witnesses


    Update 2: The Maldives are near Diego Garcia. These witnesses have been silenced

    Update 3: This is Diego Garcia’s flight schedule/Facebook page


    Update 4: Matthew- Your statement is total non sense. The truth is the truth. You have witnesses at the Maldives and Diego Garcia suspended flights between March 8-10.

    Update 5: http://www.cabaltimes.com/2014/03/12/ma370-redirected-to-diego-garcia/

    Interesting …. Also interesting is they turned off the tracking devices exactly where the radar overlap . The same as with the 9/11 planes .


    Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 isn’t the first plane to disappear over an ocean, aviation experts say
    Eileen Ng, Kristen Gelineau, Scott Mayerowitz, Associated Press | March 10, 2014 8:42 PM ET

    An Indonesian Navy pilot checks his map during a search operation for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 over the waters bordering Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand near the Malacca straits on Monday, March 10, 2014. Dozens of ships and aircraft have failed to find any piece of the missing Boeing 777 jet that vanished more than two days ago above waters south of Vietnam as investigators pursued “every angle” to explain its disappearance, including hijacking, Malaysia’s civil aviation chief said Monday. (AP Photo/Binsar Bakkara)

    MH370’s new mystery: Who is ‘Mr. Ali,’ and why did he buy tickets for passengers with stolen passports


    Authorities questioned travel agents Monday at a beach resort in Thailand about two men who boarded the vanished Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 with stolen passports, part of a growing international investigation into what they were doing on the flight.
    Nearly three days after the Boeing 777 with 239 people on board disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, no debris has been seen in Southeast Asian waters.
    The mystery kept Monday as tracked the ticket purchases to an Iranian man known only as “Mr. Ali.”

    In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonizing it can be to try to find something lost in them.

    It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday’s flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

    “The world is a big place,” said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. “If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it’s not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?”

    Amid the confusion, officials involved in the search say the Malaysian jet may have made a U-turn, adding one more level of uncertainty to the effort to find it. They even suggest that the plane could be hundreds of kilometres from where it was last detected.

    Aviation experts say the plane will be found – eventually. Since the start of the jet age in 1958, only a handful of jets have gone missing and not been found.

    “I’m absolutely confident that we will find this airplane,” Capt. John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems, said Monday. The modern pace of communications, where GPS features in our cars and smartphones tell us our location at any given moment, has set unreal expectations. “This is not the first time we have had to wait a few days to find the wreckage.”

    Based on what he’s heard, Cox believes it’s increasingly clear that the plane somehow veered from its normal flight path. He said that after the plane disappeared from radar, it must have been “intact and flew for some period of time. Beyond that, it’s all speculation.” If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, “we would have found it by now.”

    Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, whose agency is leading a multinational effort to find the Boeing 777, said more than 1,000 people and at least 34 planes and 40 ships were searching a radius of 100 nautical miles (185 kilometres) around the last known location of Flight MH370. No signal has been detected since early Saturday morning, when the plane was at its cruising altitude and showed no sign of trouble.

    Azharuddin said the search includes northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane’s last known location. Azharuddin would not explain why crews were searching there, saying, “There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can’t.”

    Some aviation experts are already calling for airlines to update their cockpit technology to provide a constant stream of data – via satellites – back to the ground. Information about key system operations is already recorded on the flight data and voice recorders – the so-called black boxes – but as this crash shows is not immediately available. Such satellite uplinks would be costly and the benefit is debated.

    Just about every major jet to disappear in the modern era has eventually been found. The rare exceptions didn’t involve passengers.

    In September 1990, a Boeing 727 owned by Faucett Airlines of Peru was ditched into the North Atlantic after running out of fuel on its way to Miami. The accident was attributed to poor pilot planning and the wreck was never recovered.

    More mysterious was the disappearance of another 727 in Africa. It was being used to transport diesel fuel to diamond mines. The owners had numerous financial problems and one day, just before sunset, the plane took off without clearance and with its transponder turned off. It is believed to have crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. One theory, never proven, is that it was stolen so the owner could collect insurance.

    “I can’t think of a water crash in the jet age that hasn’t been solved,” said Scott Hamilton, managing director of aviation consultancy Leeham Co.

    Relatives of passengers aboard a missing Malaysia Airlines plane hug each other at a hotel in Beijing, Monday, March 10, 2014. The anguished hours had turned into a day and a half. Fed up with awaiting word on the missing plane, relatives of passengers in Beijing lashed out at the carrier with a handwritten ultimatum and an impromptu news conference. (AP Photo)

    The Malaysia Airlines jet had been headed from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. The 239 people aboard were mostly from China. In Beijing, passengers’ relatives have complained that the airline has not been forthcoming with information, and that they’ve had to rely on news reports.

    Some of those reports, however, have led to dead ends. Those false alarms appeared to leave searchers with little to go on.

    The flight “was very high up in the air early in the morning, when it was still dark,” Azharuddin said. “We have no witnesses on the ground and nobody on the plane can be contacted. The area is over the sea, so it’s not as easy as that. There are a lot of constraints.”

    Whether the plane broke up in midair or crashed into the water, there would be some debris.

    Major General Datuk Affendi Buang briefs the media over latest updates on missing Malaysia Airline MH370 on March 10, 2014 in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. (How Foo Yeen/Getty Images)

    If the plane broke up “for some aerodynamic reason, like the wing fell off or there was a depressurization, there’d be big chunks of wing and fuselage all over the place. So it’d be very unlikely that it would just be destroyed and turned to dust,” said Smart, the aerospace engineering professor.

    He added that much of the wreckage may be at the bottom of the sea, which is 50 to 60 metres deep in the area where the plane was last detected.

    The size of the debris field will be one of the first indicators of what happened, aviation experts say. A large, widespread field would signal the plane likely broke apart at a high elevation, perhaps because of a bomb or a massive airframe failure. A smaller field would indicate the plane probably fell intact, breaking up upon impact with the water.

    A Malaysian ethnic Chinese child reacts to the camera as others light candles during a vigil for missing Malaysia Airlines passengers at the Independence Square in Kuala Lumpur on March 10, 2014. (MANAN VATSYAYANA/AFP/Getty Images)

    Discovering the debris can take days.

    A week after an Adam Air flight carrying 102 people vanished over Indonesian waters on Jan. 1, 2007, an Indonesian navy ship detected metal on the ocean floor. But it would take another two weeks for the U.S. Navy to pick up signals from the flight data and cockpit recorders, and seven months for the boxes to be recovered. The fuselage remains on the ocean floor, and Adam Air is now defunct.

    The Malaysian Airlines jet could be less of a challenge than the Adam Air crash in one respect: It was last tracked over much shallower water.

    But for now, the mystery is overwhelming.

    “It’s hard to imagine what could have caused it with these modern planes,” Smart said.

    Yeah, that is odd. Hard to figure why they wouldn’t provide details if they had some reason to search in a completely different area … unless they are keeping a possible hijacking under wraps until it is confirmed. Could be they don’t have anything concrete enough to comment about it at this point. Maybe just a weak lead that may not pan out.

    How does a plane simply disintegrate, they don’t, never have & never will.
    Usually when they disappear it’s the result of a cover up like 9/11 & the amazing disintegrating airplanes.
    The plane was blown up & someone is hiding that fact, likely to cover up some government endorsed operation like 9/11;)

    Egatniv truth digger
    Before the plane disappeared off the map, the plane appeared to be turning around. Here is the link to a video from a live online flight tracker. Almost looks like its turning around, but yeah its uncertain. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-3221009

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:06 PM on 2014/03/22 Permalink  

    Pembajakan MH370 oleh Pemerintah AS: Media massa Indonesia (Metro TV, TV Oon, Kompas TV) disuap pemerintah AS untuk tidak menyiarkan peran keterlibatan AWACS, Pangkalan Angkatan Laut AS (NSF) Diego Garcia, Radar Jindalee, JDF Pine Gap milik CIA, NSA, ECHELON, dan PRISM

    ECHELON, originally a code-name, is now used in global media and in popular culture to describe a signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network operated on behalf of the five signatory states to the UKUSA Security Agreement (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, referred to by a number of abbreviations, including AUSCANNZUKUS and Five Eyes). It has also been described as the only software system which controls the download and dissemination of the intercept of commercial satellite trunk communications. It was created in the early 1960s to monitor the military and diplomatic communications of the Soviet Union and its Eastern Bloc allies during the Cold War, and was formally established in the year of 1971.

    By the end of the 20th century, the system referred to as “ECHELON” had evolved beyond its military/diplomatic origins, to also become “… a global system for the interception of private and commercial communications.”

    The system has been reported in a number of public sources. One of the earliest reports to describe the program, code-named “ECHELON”, was Duncan Campbell’s 1988 article, “Somebody’s listening”, published in the New Statesman. The program’s capabilities and political implications were investigated by a committee of the European Parliament during 2000 and 2001 with a report published in 2001, and by author James Bamford in his books on the National Security Agency of the United States. The European Parliament stated in its report that the term ECHELON is used in a number of contexts, but that the evidence presented indicates that it was the name for a signals intelligence collection system. The report concludes that, on the basis of information presented, ECHELON was capable of interception and content inspection of telephone calls, fax, e-mail and other data traffic globally through the interception of communication bearers including satellite transmission, public switched telephone networks (which once carried most Internet traffic) and microwave links.

    Bamford describes the system as the software controlling the collection and distribution of civilian telecommunications traffic conveyed using communication satellites, with the collection being undertaken by ground stations located in the footprint of the downlink leg.

    PRISM is a clandestine mass electronic surveillance data mining program launched in 2007 by the National Security Agency (NSA), with participation from an unknown date by the British equivalent agency, GCHQ. PRISM is a government code name for a data-collection effort known officially by the SIGAD US-984XN. The Prism program collects stored Internet communications based on demands made to Internet companies such as Google Inc. and Apple Inc. under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 to turn over any data that match court-approved search terms. The NSA can use these Prism requests to target communications that were encrypted when they traveled across the Internet backbone, to focus on stored data that telecommunication filtering systems discarded earlier, and to get data that is easier to handle, among other things.

    PRISM began in 2007 in the wake of the passage of the Protect America Act under the Bush Administration. The program is operated under the supervision of the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court, or FISC) pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Its existence was leaked six years later by NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who warned that the extent of mass data collection was far greater than the public knew and included what he characterized as “dangerous” and “criminal” activities. The disclosures were published by The Guardian and The Washington Post on June 6, 2013. Subsequent documents have demonstrated a financial arrangement between NSA’s Special Source Operations division (SSO) and PRISM partners in the millions of dollars.

    Documents indicate that PRISM is “the number one source of raw intelligence used for NSA analytic reports”, and it accounts for 91% of the NSA’s Internet traffic acquired under FISA section 702 authority.” The leaked information came to light one day after the revelation that the FISA Court had been ordering a subsidiary of telecommunications company Verizon Communications to turn over to the NSA logs tracking all of its customers’ telephone calls on an ongoing daily basis.

    U.S. government officials have disputed some aspects of the Guardian and Washington Post stories and have defended the program by asserting it cannot be used on domestic targets without a warrant, that it has helped to prevent acts of terrorism, and that it receives independent oversight from the federal government’s executive, judicial and legislative branches. On June 19, 2013, U.S. President Barack Obama, during a visit to Germany, stated that the NSA’s data gathering practices constitute “a circumscribed, narrow system directed at us being able to protect our people.”


    Kecelakaan Pesawat Malaysia Airlines Mirip Adam Air
    MARIA YUNIAR, 20140309

    TEMPO.CO, Jakarta – Pengamat penerbangan, Dudi Sudibyo, mengatakan kecelakaan yang menimpa pesawat Malaysia Airlines mirip dengan yang terjadi pada Adam Air. “Artinya, ini mirip, sama-sama jatuh dan masuk ke laut,” ujarnya saat dihubungi Tempo, Ahad, 9 Maret 2014.

    Namun pesawat yang dioperasikan Adam Air pada 2007 berjenis Boeing 737-400. Sedangkan Malaysia Airlines menggunakan jenis Boeing 777-200. Dudi menuturkan pesawat berbadan lebar ini sudah banyak digunakan maskapai-maskapai di seluruh dunia, termasuk Indonesia. “Boeing 777-200 banyak yang memakai, termasuk Cathay Pacific Airways, Singapore Airlines, dan Garuda Indonesia,” kata Dudi.

    Ia menjelaskan, Malaysia Airlines sudah mengoperasikan pesawat jenis ini selama satu tahun dan tidak pernah bermasalah sebelumnya. Boeing 777 mampu terbang sejauh 11.500 kilometer nonstop. Harga pesawat jenis ini mencapai US$ 261,5 juta.

    Pesawat Malaysia Airlines yang membawa 227 penumpang dan 12 awak diduga jatuh di Laut Cina Selatan. Tim penyelamat dari negara-negara yang paling dekat dengan jalur penerbangan itu menjelajahi area tersebut untuk melakukan pencarian.

    Media pemerintah Vietnam, mengutip seorang pejabat senior angkatan laut, telah melaporkan bahwa Boeing 777-200ER yang mengarungi penerbangan dari Kuala Lumpur ke Beijing telah jatuh di Vietnam selatan. Namun baik Angkatan Laut Vietnam maupun Menteri Transportasi Malaysia kemudian membantah kecelakaan itu.

    “Kami melakukan segala upaya untuk menemukan pesawat,” kata Menteri Transportasi Malaysia Hishamuddin Hussein kepada wartawan di dekat Bandara Internasional Kuala Lumpur. “Kami mencari informasi yang akurat dari militer Malaysia. Mereka menunggu informasi dari pihak Vietnam.”

    Kecelakaan pesawat Malaysia Airlines ini, jika benar terjadi, kemungkinan akan menandai insiden paling mematikanyang melibatkan pesawat Boeing jenis 777-200ER sejak mengudara 19 tahun lalu. Pesawat yang hilang tanpa memberikan sinyal bahaya mengingatkan pada jatuhnya Air France ke Samudra Atlantik Selatan pada 1 Juni 2009. Kecelakaan ini menewaskan 228 orang. Pesawat ini menghilang selama berjam-jam sebelum puing-puingnya ditemukan.


    Dari Korosi Mesin, Pilot Bunuh Diri, hingga Dirudal Militer
    Updated: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:48:00 GMT | By JPNN

    NEW YORK – Berbagai spekulasi tentang penyebab hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines bernomor penerbangan MH370 rute Kuala Lumpur-Beijing di Laut China Selatan, Sabtu (8/3) terus bergulir. Para ahli pun mencoba mereka-reka musabab hilangnya pesawat Boeing 777-200 dengan 239 orang di dalamnya itu melalui berbagai pendekatan.

    Dalam sebuah penerbangan, bagian paling berbahaya justru saat lepas landas dan mendarat. Jarang terjadi insiden saat pesawat berada 7 mil di atas permukaan bumi. Bahkan catatan statistik Boeing menunjukkan hanya 9 persen kecelakaan fatal saat pesawat ada di ketinggian.

    Namun khusus MH370, pesawat tiba-tiba lenyap dari radar. Kalaupun terjadi kegagalan mesin pada Boeing 777-200 yang dioperasikan maskapai berkode MAS itu, maka pilot tentu masih sempat menyampaikan panggilan darurat.

    Para ahli pun menduga telah terjadi sesuatu yang cepat sehingga pilot tidak sempat membuat panggilan darurat. “Tidak adanya panggilan darutat menunjukkan sesuatu yang begitu mendadak dan terjadi sangat keras,” ulas William Waldock, pakar penyelidikan kecelakaan pesawat dari Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Amerika Serikat.

    Karenanya, dugaan tentang kemungkinan adanya aksi terorisme terhadap MH370 pun semakin terbuka. “Apakah anda mendapatkan peristiwa bencana hingga membuat pesawat terbelah atau anda melakukan tindakan kriminal, itu (hilangnya kontak pesawat, red) terlalu cepat dan mereka (pilot, red) tidak melakukan panggilan darurat,” kata Scott Hamilton, seorang konsultan penerbangan di Leeham Co.

    Meski demikian, para ahli sepakat bahwa terlalu dini untuk menyimpulkan tentang penyebab hilangnya MH370. Sebab, petunjuk terbaik adalah dari data penerbangan, rekaman suara pembicaraan, serta puing pesawat.

    Kapten John M Cox, CEO di Safety Operating System yang menghabiskan 25 tahun umurnya di dunia penerbangan mengatakan, salah satu indikator pertama tentang hal yang terjadi pada MH370 adalah ukuran serpihan pesawat. Jika ukuran serpihannya besar dan tersebar hingga bermil-mil jaraknya, maka pesawat kemungkinan pecah di ketinggian. Hal itu bisa menunjukkan adanya pemboman atau kerusakan besar pada struktur pesawat.

    Tapi jika serpihannya tersebar di area yang kecil, maka kemungkinan pesawat jatuh dari ketingian 35 ribu kaki dan pecah saat menyentuh air. Meski demikian Cox tak mau berspekulasi lebih banyak.

    “Kami hanya tahu pesawat jatuh. Selain itu, kita tidak tahu semuanya,” ujarnya.

    Meski demikian, para ahli menyodorkan beberapa kemungkinan tentang penyebab hilangnya pesawat. Apa saja itu?

    1. Adanya bencana struktural akibat kegagalan mesin pada Rolls-Royce Trent 800 yang dipakai di Boeing 777-200 MAS. Kebanyakan pesawat terbuat dari almunium sehingga seiring perjalanan waktu pun rentan terhadap korosi, terutama di area-area dengan kelembaban tinggi. Namun melihat pada sejarah panjang pesawat termasuk catatan keselamatan yang baik, para ahli menepis kemungkinan ini terjadi pada MH370.

    2. Cuaca buruk. Boeing 777-200 dirancang untuk tetap bisa terbang sekalipun dalam badai besar. Meski demikian, pada Juni 2009 pesawat milik Air France yang terbang dari Rio de Janeiro, Brazil ke Paris mengalami kecelakaan di Lautan Atlantik akibat cuaca buruk. Seluruh penumpang yang jumlahnya 228 orang plus kru pesawat meninggal. Pilot juga tak pernah menyampaikan permintaan bantuan.

    Tapi dalam kasus MAS MH370, cuaca sedang dalam keadaan cerah. Karenanya para ahli menepis kemungkinan MH370 jatuh akibat cuaca buruk.

    3. Disorientasi pilot. Dugaannya, pilot menjalankan sistem autopilot dan pergi meninggalkan cockpit. Saat menyadari ada persoalan pada pesawat, ternyata sudah terlambat.

    Namun kemungkinan ini terjadi pada MH370 juga ditepis para ahli. Sebab, pesawat itu bisa terbang hingga 5-6 jam sejak terakhir kontak, yang artinya masih bisa menempuh jarak hingga 4800 kilometer. Namun, MH370 ternyata tidak masuk ke sistem radar pengendali lalu lintas udara lainnya saat hendak keluar dari kendali Kuala Lumpur.

    4. Kegagalan dua mesin. Pada Januari 2008, pesawat Boeing 777 milik Bristish Airways jatuh sekitar 300 meter dari landasan Bandara Heathrow di London. Pesawat kehilangan daya dorong karena adanya pembentukan es dalam sistem bahan bakar. Beruntung tidak ada korban jiwa dalam kecelakaan itu.

    5. Bom. Sudah banyak catatan pesawat jatuh akibat membawa bom di dalamnya. Misalnya Pan Am 103 antara London-New York pada Desember 1988. Ada pula Air India yang meledak dalam jalur penerbangan antara Montreal-London pada Juni 1985. Bahkan pada Setmebner 1989, maskapai Prancis Union des Transports Ariens meledak di atas Gurun Sahara.

    6. Pembajakan. Dalam insiden pembajakan tradisional, pembajak biasanya memaksa pilot mengarahkan pesawat ke bandara tertentu. Namun sejak 11 September 2001 atau saat pembajak mengarahkan pesawat ke menara kembar World Trade Center di New York, ada kemungkinan pembajak sengaja memaksa pesawat jatuh ke laut.

    7. Pilot bunuh diri. Setidaknya ada dua kecelakaan besar pada penghujung 1990-an lantaran pilot sengaja menabrakkan pesawat.

    8. Ditembak oleh militer. Dugaan ini bisa saja terjadi pada MH370 meski kemungkinannya kecil. Tapi pada Juli 1988, dunia penerbangan pernah punya catatan kelam ketika pesawat Iran Air dihantam rudal penjelajah dari USS Vincennes. 299 penumpang dan awak di Iran Air tewas. Insiden serupa terjadi pada Korean Air yang ditembak jauth oleh jet tempur Rusia pada 1983.(ap/ara/jpnn)


    Pemancar Mati, CIA Curigai Pilot MH370 Bunuh Diri
    Updated: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:46:47 GMT | By fnugraha, okezone.com

    WASHINGTON – Hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines masih memicu spekulasi penyebab insiden tersebut. Direktur CIA John Brennan, tidak mengesampingkan kecurigaan pilot melakukan tindakan bunuh diri.

    “Pihak berwenang terus menyelidiki kemungkinan bahwa pilot dari pesawat Malaysia Airlines (nomor penerbangan) MH370 melakukan tindak bunuh diri,” ujar Direktur CIA John Brennan, seperti dikutip Daily Mail, Rabu (12/3/2014).

    “Saya kira tidak bisa meninggalkan satu teori apa pun,” tutur Brennan, ketika ditanya perihal pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah kemungkinan melakukan bunuh diri.

    Pendapat dari Brennan ini dikeluarkan setelah pihak berwenang Malaysia melakukan pemeriksaan profil psikologi terhadap seluruh penumpang yang berada di pesawat nahas itu. Teori ini bisa memberi penjelasan mengenai hilangnya pesawat dari radar, mengingat pilot bisa dengan mudah mematikan pemancar sinyal sebelum hilang.

    “Saat ini kita harus sabar dan menunggu pihak berwenang untuk melakukan penyelidikan. Ada banyak pertanyaan. Siapa yang memiliki kemampuan untuk mematikan pemancar? Bagaimana tindakan semacam itu tidak terdeteksi?” jelas mantan penasihat anti-teror Presiden Barack Obama tersebut.

    Sebelumnya Brennan mengatakan, dugaan teroris tidak bisa diabaikan dalam insiden hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines. Brennan menilai nasib pesawat itu sebagai misteri.

    Brennan menyebutkan ada laporan pihak yang mengklaim bertanggungjawab atas hilangnya penerbangan MH370 itu. Tetapi dirinya menilai klaim itu tidak bisa dikonfirmasi.

    Kelompok militan China Brigade Martir sebelumnya mengaku bertanggungjawab atas insiden yang dialami oleh pesawat jenis Boeing 777-200ER tersebut. Namun klaim yang dilayangkan oleh Brigade Martir dianggap tidak dapat dipercaya.


    Hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Air ingatkan pada tragedi Adam Air
    Muhammad Sholeh | Minggu, 9 Maret 2014 05:00

    Merdeka.com – Pesawat Boeing 777 yang diterbangkan maskapai Malaysia Airlines hilang sejak Sabtu pagi. Pesawat dengan nomor penerbangan MH370 itu diterbangkan oleh Kapten Zaharie Ahmad Shah (53) pada pukul 00.41 waktu Malaysia.

    MH370 lepas landas dari Kuala Lumpur Malaysia menuju Beijing, China. Pesawat yang mengangkut 239 penumpang, termasuk dua bayi dan 12 awak kabin itu seharusnya tiba di Beijing tepat pada pukul 06.40 waktu setempat. Namun, pesawat tersebut tak kunjung tiba di Beijing.

    Pihak Malaysia Airlines mengaku kehilangan kontak dengan pesawat tersebut. Angkatan Laut Vietnam mengaku telah menemukan posisi pesawat MH370 Malaysia Airlines yang hilang. Radar mereka menunjukkan pesawat itu terhempas jatuh ke laut. AL Vietnam menjelaskan pesawat jatuh ke laut sekitar 153 mil sebelah Selatan pulau Phu Quoc.

    Ada tujuh penumpang yang berkewarganegaraan Indonesia dalam pesawat Malaysia Airlines MH370 yang dilaporkan hilang tersebut. Berdasar penelusuran merdeka.com, nama-nama penumpang dari Indonesia diantaranya Vinny Chynthyatio, Wang Willysurijanto, Ferry Indra Swadaya, Sugianto Lo, Firman Chandra, Siregar, Indra Suria Tanurisam, dan Herry Indra Suadaya.

    Insiden nahas Pesawat Boeing 777 yang diterbangkan maskapai Malaysia Airlines itu mirip tragedi hilangnya pesawat milik Adam Air. Kala itu, Tanggal 1 Januari 2007, pesawat Boeing 737-400 bernomor registrasi PK-KKW milik Adam Air lepas landas dari Bandara Juanda Surabaya pukul 12.55 WIB.

    Seharusnya, pesawat tiba di Bandara Sam Ratulangi Manado pukul 16.14 WITA. Namun, pesawat tersebut mengalami kecelakaan dan hilang kontak sekitar pukul 14.53 WIB.

    Penyebab kecelakaan diduga karena cuaca buruk, kerusakan pada alat bantu navigasi Inertial Reference System (IRS) dan kegagalan kinerja pilot dalam menghadapi situasi darurat. Pesawat jatuh di laut dengan kecepatan tinggi hingga mengakibatkan badan pesawat terbelah dua. Ada 96 penumpang dalam pesawat nahas yang dipiloti Kapten Refri A Widodo itu. Tidak ada satu pun yang selamat.

    Tim SAR Indonesia mengerahkan KRI Fatahillah, pesawat Boeing 737-200 dan pesawat NOMAD, beberapa helikopter. Mereka juga dibantu oleh pesawat Fokker-50 milik AU Singapura, kapal oseanografi Angkatan Laut Amerika Serikat USNS Mary Sears serta sebuah tim pemetaan dari Kanada.

    Tanggal 11 Januari 2007, salah satu bagian dari ekor pesawat ditemukan seorang nelayan di selatan Pare-pare, sekitar 300 km lepas pantai. Selain itu, di sekitar kawasan tersebut juga ditemukan barang-barang lainnya seperti kursi pesawat, jaket keselamatan dan KTP.

    Pada 24 Januari, USNS Mary Sears melaporkan bahwa kotak hitam pesawat ditemukan di perairan Majene, Sulawesi Barat. Walau ditemukan, bukan perkara mudah mengangkat black box itu dari dasar laut. Perlu alat khusus dan kapal selam untuk mengangkut black box dari dasar laut. Biaya yang dikeluarkan miliaran rupiah.

    Alat khusus itu adalah sejenis robot yang dilengkapi tangan dan kamera. Untuk mendatangkan robot dari Amerika dibutuhkan dana USD 1 juta. Sedangkan biaya operasional per hari sekitar USD 100.000.

    Pada 27 Agustus 2007, akhirnya kotak hitam Adam Air ditemukan di perairan Majene, Sulawesi Barat pada pukul 12.19 WIB. Kotak hitam yang ditemukan ini secara resmi diserahkan dari Phoenix International Amerika Serikat kepada Komisi Nasional Keselamatan Transportasi (KNKT). Sungguh bukan sebuah proses yang mudah dan murah. (mtf)


    10 Kecelakaan Penerbangan Paling Misterius
    Banyak yang berhubungan dengan era perang, ada pula yang meninggalkan pesan aneh.
    Arsito Hidayatullah : 9 Maret 2014 | 18:27

    Suara.com – Hingga Minggu (9/3/2014) sore ini, peristiwa hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines nomor penerbangan (flight) MH370, masih juga belum jelas. Pihak berwenang Malaysia dan negara-negara terkait, begitu juga dengan badan internasional lain, masih berusaha memastikan keberadaan pesawat berpenumpang 227 orang tersebut.

    Walaupun merupakan sesuatu yang seharusnya dihindarkan, kejadian hilang maupun jatuhnya pesawat sudah menjadi bagian dari sejarah manusia, sejak pertama kalinya pesawat digunakan. Banyak yang memang jelas di mana, kapan, kenapa, dan bagaimananya. Namun banyak juga yang masih menyisakan misteri, bahkan sampai saat ini.

    Berikut 10 kejadian pesawat jatuh maupun hilang yang dianggap paling misterius sepanjang sejarah manusia, hingga saat ini, sebagaimana dirangkum oleh situs Mirror.co.uk:

    10. Hilangnya Amelia Earhart saat mengelilingi bumi
    Penerbang pionir Amerika Serikat (AS), Amelia Earhart, diketahui menghilang bersama pesawat Lockheed Electra yang dibawanya, pada 2 Juli 1937. Saat itu, bersama navigator Fred Noonan, dia tengah dalam misi terbang mengelilingi bumi. Earhart adalah perempuan pertama yang terbang solo melintasi Samudera Atlantik, namun diketahui hilang di sekitar Pulau Howland, di pertengahan Lautan Pasifik.

    Belakangan, berbagai teori dari para peneliti maupun penyuka misteri, muncul terkait hilangnya Earhart dan pesawatnya. Mulai dari kehabisan bahan bakar dan jatuh ke laut, ditangkap pihak Jepang karena menjadi mata-mata Presiden Franklin D Roosevelt, selamat dari penerbangan itu dan pindah ke New Jersey lalu berganti nama, hingga teori diculik alien seperti disinggung dalam salah satu episode “Star Trek: Voyager” tahun 1995.

    9. Pesawat militer Glenn Miller yang hilang di atas Selat Inggris
    Glenn Miller adalah seorang pemimpin big band legendaris, yang antara lain tampil bersama US Army Air Force Band beberapa kali di hadapan pihak Sekutu di Inggris pada musim panas 1944. Dia diketahui terakhir kali menginap di Milton Ernest, dekat Bedford, Inggris, pada 14 Desember 1944. Esoknya, dia ikut penerbangan untuk tampil di hadapan prajurit di Prancis, berangkat dari lapangan terbang RAF (AU Inggris) di Tinwood Farm, namun lantas menghilang saat di Selat Inggris.

    Lagi-lagi, ada berbagai teori terkait menghilangnya Miller dan pesawat yang ditumpanginya itu. Oleh karena penerbangan masih dalam suasana perang, salah satu teori menyebut kemungkinan pesawat itu “terbakar tak sengaja”. Hal ini lantaran sebelumnya sebuah pesawat Lancaster Bomber yang kabur dari penyergapan di Siegen, Jerman, diketahui melepas 100.000 bom di atas kawasan itu. Sementara teori lainnya yang lebih spekulatif adalah bahwa Miller selamat sampai ke Prancis, sebelum kemudian meninggal di sebuah brothel di Paris.

    8. Flight 19 dan awal misteri Segitiga Bermuda
    Inilah awal munculnya nama misterius Segitiga Bermuda, sebuah kawasan di antara titik Miami, San Juan (Puerto Riko) dan Bermuda. Semua diawali pada sore tanggal 5 Desember 1945, ketika rombongan latihan lima pesawat Navy Avenger di bawah kode Flight 19, dipimpin oleh instruktur penerbangan berpengalaman Charles Taylor, bertolak dari Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

    Sekitar 1,5 jam sejak berangkat, para pilot melaporkan bahwa mereka mulai kehilangan arah, serta tak bisa mengenali tanda-tanda permukaan di bawah. Dalam sebuah komunikasi radio, Taylor memberitahu Pangkalan Udara AL di Fort Lauderdale bahwa kedua kompasnya tidak bekerja. Meski berbagi upaya dilakukan, pesawat-pesawat itu tak terselamatkan. Ketika cuaca memburuk, situasi kacau membuat para penerbang tak menemukan daratan, lalu jatuh ke laut, menewaskan total 14 penerbang dan kru dalam rombongan.

    Yang lebih aneh lagi, salah satu pesawat yang kemudian dikirim untuk mencari rombongan latihan malang itu, juga malah menghilang. Pesawat PBM Mariner itu terbang mulai pukul 19.30 waktu setempat, namun sejak saat itu tak terdengar lagi kabarnya. Keseluruhan 13 orang di dalamnya pun kemudian dianggap telah tewas.

    7. Star Dust dan kode Morse anehnya
    Pesawat milik British South American Airways (BSAA) bernama Star Dust, sebuah versi sipil dari Lancaster Bomber, terbang dari Buenos Aires, Argentina, pada 2 Agustus 1947 pukul 13.46 waktu setempat, menuju Santiago, Cile. Pesawat yang mengarah ke rute di atas Pegunungan Andes itu kemudian hilang, dan menyisakan sejumlah besar pertanyaan.

    Dipiloti oleh Reginald Cook, seorang pilot militer berpengalaman, pesawat itu tak pernah sampai ke Santiago. Namun sesaat sebelum menghilang, operator radio pesawat itu sempat mengirimkan satu pesan kode Morse aneh yang berbunyi “STENDEC”.

    Berbagai teori pun lantas bermunculan kemudian, terutama terkait pesan aneh dari pesawat itu. Mulai dari teori serangan UFO, hingga kemungkinan sabotase dan pengeboman terencana pesawat itu demi memusnahkan dokumen penting yang dibawa salah satu penumpangnya.

    Teori yang paling memungkinkan adalah bahwa pesawat itu tanpa disadari mungkin tiba-tiba menabrak lereng pegunungan yang nyaris vertikal, sebelum kemudian puing-puingnya tertimbun oleh salju. Baru 50 tahun kemudian, dua pendaki Argentina tak sengaja menemukan beberapa bagian mesin dan robekan pakaian yang diyakini dari pesawat itu.

    6. Star Tiger yang juga hilang di Segitiga Bemuda
    Ini adalah pesawat lainnya milik BSAA. Terbang di tengah kondisi angin kencang, pesawat yang membawa 25 penumpang, termasuk pahlawan Perang Dunia II Marsekal Udara Sir Arthur Coningham, ini berangkat dari Santa Maria di Azores, menuju Bermuda, pada 30 Januari 1948.

    Dalam perjalanannya yang diprediksi berdurasi 12 jam, pesawat terbang rendah demi menghindari terjangan angin, sembari mengikuti sebuah pesawat Lancastrian yang memandu dari gangguan cuaca. Namun pesawat pemandu itu ternyata tetap tertiup angin kencang, hingga harus terbang menempuh risiko dengan sisa bahan bakar menuju Bermuda. Pesawat itu akhirnya sampai dengan selamat pada sekitar pukul 4 pagi, namun tidak demikian dengan Star Tiger. Sosoknya tak kelihatan dan kabarnya tak pernah terdengar lagi.

    Salah satu analisis menyebutkan bahwa lantaran rendahnya pesawat itu terbang, sebuah terpaan angin kuat kemungkinan mendorongnya ke laut. Kemungkinan lain adalah terjadi masalah pada altimeter, yang ditambah dengan keletihan pilot karena penerbangan panjang, membuat pesawat akhirnya justru jatuh ke laut.

    5. Misteri Penerbangan Nomor 191
    Yang ini tidak terkait satu penerbangan saja, tapi berhubungan dengan beberapa penerbangan bernomor 191, sepanjang lebih dari 40 tahun. Salah satunya tergolong kecelakaan paling mematikan dalam sejarah penerbangan AS, yaitu American Airlines Flight 191 yang jatuh pada tahun 1979. Jatuh hanya dalam hitungan menit sejak take-off dari Bandara Internasional O’Hare di Chicago, kecelakaan pesawat ini menewaskan semua penumpang (258) dan krunya (13 orang).

    Tragedi penerbangan 191 lainnya melibatkan pesawat eksperimen X-15 flight 191, yang jatuh pada tahun 1967 dan menewaskan pilotnya. Lalu ada flight 191 milik JetBlue Airways yang mengalami kecelakaan pada 2012, di mana kaptennya sempat panik hingga harus dipegangi oleh sejumlah penumpang. Belakangan, beberapa maskapai yang percaya pada angka sial, tidak mau lagi memakai nomor penerbangan 191.

    4. Misteri hilangnya pesawat Star Ariel
    Ini lagi-lagi menyangkut sebuah pesawat di bawah maskapai BSAA, serta masih berkaitan dengan Segitiga Bermuda. Tepatnya, pesawat bernama Star Ariel yang masih sejenis dengan Star Tiger, ini terbang pada 17 Januari 1949, dari Bermuda menuju Jamaika. Bedanya, pesawat ini terbang dalam kondisi cuaca cerah tanpa turbulensi, namun sepanjang perjalanan terganggu oleh masalah komunikasi.

    Star Ariel akhirnya tak sampai ke tujuannya. Upaya pencarian dan penyelamatan pun sia-sia, sebelum akhirnya dihentikan sama sekali pada 25 Januari, delapan hari sejak pesawat itu terbang. Sebuah investigasi kemudian mencatatkan kesimpulan penyebab kecelakaan “tak diketahui”.

    Namun begitu, Don Bennett, seorang mantan direktur di BSAA, mengklaim bahwa Star Ariel dan juga Star Tiger sebenarnya disabotase oleh pihak penyabotase era perang. Dia juga menuturkan bahwa Perdana Menteri (PM) Inggris Clement Attlee-lah yang secara pribadi menyuruh penghentian penyelidikan atas kedua kecelakaan tersebut.

    3. Tragedi flight 571 di Pegunungan Andes
    Sebuah pesawat carteran milik AU Uruguay bernomor penerbangan 571, terbang membawa 45 penumpang dan kru, termasuk di antaranya tim Rugby Union dari Montevideo. Terkena cuara buruk, pesawat mengalami kecelakaan dan menabrak Pegunungan Andes.

    Sebanyak 12 orang tewas di tempat saat itu, sementara 6 orang lagi tewas beberapa hari kemudian. Lantas, 8 orang lainnya tewas ketika sebuah longsoran salju menimpa reruntuhan pesawat di mana mereka berlindung. Namun di tengah kondisi yang sangat buruk itu, sisa 16 orang lainnya mampu terus bertahan hidup, khususnya dengan terpaksa menjadi kanibal memanfaatkan mayat penumpang lainnya yang telah mati.

    Baru 72 hari kemudian mereka ditemukan, setelah dua di antaranya melakukan perjalanan 10 hari melintasi pegunungan dan berjumpa seorang pedagang Cile yang melintas. Orang itulah yang memberi mereka makanan dan kemudian menghubungi pihak berwenang. Kisah kecelakaan ini pun kemudian diangkat ke dalam film layar lebar pada tahun 1993 berjudul Alive.

    2. Penerbangan nomor 990 EgyptAir
    Pesawat EgyptAir dengan nomor penerbangan 990, yang bertolak dari Bandara Internasional John F Kennedy di New York, menuju Kairo, Mesir, pada 31 Oktober 1999, mengalami kecelakaan tragis. Pesawat Boeing 767 itu jatuh ke Lautan Atlantik di sebelah selatan Massachusetts, menewaskan keseluruhan 217 penumpang dan krunya, serta menyisakan sejumlah catatan aneh sekaligus misterius.

    Gamil el-Batouty, co-pilot di penerbangan tersebut, dituduh melakukan tindakan pelecehan seksual oleh seorang pejabat eksekutif EgyptAir yang juga menjadi penumpang di pesawat itu. Kepala pilot maskapai yang saat itu bertugas, Hatem Rushdy, lantas terdengar mengatakan kepada el-Batouty bahwa ini adalah “penerbangan terakhirmu”, yang dijawab sang co-pilot dengan perkataan “ini juga penerbangan terakhirmu”.

    Belakangan, ketika sang pilot kepala meninggalkan tempatnya untuk ke toilet, rekaman penerbangan mencatat perkataan lirih el-Batouty. “Aku berserah kepada Tuhan,” katanya, sebelum kemudian mematikan sistem autopilot dan mengarahkan hidung pesawat menukik ke bawah.

    el-Batouty masih terdengar mengulangi lagi perkataannya itu seakan siap bunuh diri, dengan kondisi pesawat terus menukik. Sang kapten sempat kembali ke tempatnya, namun gagal mengembalikan pesawat ke posisi aman dan akhirnya jatuh menghajar permukaan laut.

    Dewan Keamanan Transportasi Nasional AS dalam hasil investigasinya menyimpulkan bahwa kecelakaan itu terjadi akibat tindakan dari el-Batouty. Namun mereka tidak menjelaskan apa sebenarnya motifnya.

    1. Jatuhnya flight 447 Air France
    Sebuah pesawat Airbus A330 dari Rio de Janeiro menuju Paris, terbang membawa total 288 penumpang dan kru, pada tahun 2009 lalu. Namun pesawat itu harus mengalami kecelakaan tragis di atas Lautan Atlantik, yang diyakini menewaskan semua orang di dalamnya.

    Laporan akhir dari penyelidikan kecelakaan ini menyebut bahwa kristal es mengganggu silinder (mesin) pesawat tersebut, yang lantas membuat sistem autopilot-nya mati. Pilot dan kru pesawat sempat coba mengatasi situasi, namun tak berhasil, sebelum akhirnya pesawat harus jatuh ke lautan.

    Dalam beberapa bulan upaya penyelamatan pasca-kecelakaan itu, sebanyak 50 mayat berhasil ditemukan di laut. Kotak hitam pesawat itu sendiri akhirnya berhasil ditemukan pada Mei 2011, ditambah sebanyak 104 mayat lainnya. Namun mayat 74 penumpang lainnya tak pernah bisa ditemukan. (Mirror.co.uk)


    Bagaimana Hilangnya Malaysia Airlines Mirip dengan Kecelakaan Adam Air?
    Minggu, 9 Maret 2014 | 19:43 WIB

    Pesawat Malaysia Airlines mendarat di Bandara Soekarno-Hatta, Tangerang, Banten, Minggu (26/5/2013) (TRIBUNNEWS/DANY PERMANA).

    KOMPAS.com – Pesawat Malaysia Airlines dengan nomor penerbangan MH370 hilang kontak sejak Sabtu (8/3/2014) pukul 02.40 waktu setempat. Hilang kontak terjadi kurang lebih 2 jam setelah pesawat dengan rute Kuala Lumpur-Beijing itu lepas landas pada pukul 00.41 dini hari.

    Kasus hilangnya MH370 dinilai janggal. Pertama, pesawat itu terbang di ketinggian yang paling aman, sekitar 35.000 kaki. Kedua, Malaysia Airlines dinilai sebagai operator penerbangan yang baik. Ketiga, Boeing 777-200 adalah pesawat dengan dukungan keselamatan terbaik saat ini.

    Bagaimana MH370 bisa hilang? Itu masih misteri. Namun, hilangnya pesawat dan kemungkinan jatuhnya pesawat, seperti pada MH370, ternyata bukan pertama kali terjadi. Kasus serupa pernah menimpa maskapai negara lain, termasuk Indonesia.

    “Sebenarnya ada kasus yang mirip dengan hilangnya Malaysia Airlines ini, yaitu Air France (AF447) yang jatuh di Atlantik dan Adam Air (DHI 574) yang jatuh di Perairan Majene,” ujar pengamat penerbangan, Dudi Sudibyo.

    “Pesawat tiba-tiba hilang kontak kurang lebih dua jam setelah lepas landas dan saat terbang di ketinggian yang sebenarnya paling aman,” ungkap Dudi saat dihubungi oleh Kompas.com, Minggu (9/3/2014).

    Dalam kasus Adam Air, pesawat lepas landas pada 1 Januari 2007 pukul 12.55 WIB dari Bandara Juanda, Surabaya, menuju Bandara Sam Ratulangi, Manado. Namun, pesawat kemudian hilang kontak sejak pukul 15.05 Wita.

    Pada kasus Air France, pesawat berangkat dari Bandara Rio de Janeiro-Galeao pada 31 Mei 2009 pada pukul 22.29 UTC menuju Bandara Charles de Gaulle, Paris. Seharusnya, pesawat itu tiba 10 jam 34 menit setelah penerbangan. Namun, 3 jam 6 menit setelah lepas landas, pesawat hilang kontak.

    Dalam kasus Adam Air dan Air France, yang terjadi ternyata adalah kecelakaan pesawat. Kedua pesawat itu jatuh di lautan. Dalam kasus Malaysia Airlines, kecelakaan hingga jatuh ke laut masih dianggap sebagai skenario terburuk dari kasus hilang kontak ini.

    Menurut Dudi, ada dua kemungkinan pesawat bisa hilang kontak pada ketinggian yang paling aman. Pertama adalah masalah teknis yang sulit atau tidak segera dikendalikan pilot. Kedua adalah sabotase, yang dalam kasus Malaysia Airlines dikaitkan dengan terorisme.

    “Kalau pada Adam Air, seperti yang kita ketahui yang terjadi adalah masalah teknis,” kata Dudi. Bagian pesawat yang disebut internal reference system (IRS) rusak. Bagian ini seharusnya diganti oleh manajemen maskapai, namun hal itu tidak dilakukan.

    Kerusakan IRS berdampak pada tak berfungsinya kemudi otomatis. Akhirnya, pilot tak sadar bahwa pesawat miring. Perubahan kemiringan terjadi 1 derajat per detik. Ketika kemiringan sudah lebih dari 35 derajat, pesawat tak stabil.

    Kemiringan terus berubah hingga mencapai 100 derajat. Ketika pesawat makin tak stabil, pilot sudah kesulitan untuk membalikkan dan menstabilkan lagi. Akhirnya, pesawat pun jatuh ke laut, terbelah dua.

    “Kasus Malaysia Airlines ini bisa saja dipicu masalah teknis walaupun saya tidak mengesampingkan unsur sabotase,” ujar Dudi. Namun, hal itu masih harus dibuktikan dengan mencari dan menyelidiki kotak hitam.

    Pencarian kotak hitam, Dudi menduga, takkan mudah jika pesawat memang jatuh di lautan. Pada kasus Adam Air, kotak hitam baru ditemukan setahun kemudian di dasar laut berkedalaman 2.000 meter. Sementara pada kasus Air France, kotak hitam baru ditemukan pada Mei 2011. Laporan resmi penyebab kecelakaan baru dirilis 5 Juli 2012.

    Penulis : Yunanto Wiji Utomo
    Editor : Yunanto Wiji Utomo


    Kasus Malaysia Airlines, Dikhawatirkan Senasib Adam Air
    Minggu, 09 Maret 2014 , 20:04:00

    MASIH ingat peristiwa hilangnya pesawat Adam Air, di perairan Majene, Sulawesi Barat, 1 Januari 2007 silam.

    Setelah tujuh tahun berlalu, musibah jatuhnya pesawat berpenumpang 96 orang itu, hanya menyisahkan temuan serpihan dan kotak hitam (blackbox), tanpa ditemukan bangkai pesawat dan satupun jasad penumpangnya.

    Ya, kasus jatuhnya Adam Air tersebut dikhawatirkan akan dialami penerbangan Malaysia Airlines yang hilang kontak pada Sabtu, 9 Maret dinihari kemarin.

    Sebab hingga saat ini, keberadaan dan nasib 239 penumpang pesawat nahas tersebut masih misterius. Tim pencari dari Vietnam hanya sebatas menemukan tanda yang belum diyakini kebenarannya dari jejak jatuhnya pesawat Boeing 777-200 itu.

    Kendati demikian, banyak pihak dari sejumlah negara yang ikut membantu pencarian pesawat Malaysia Airlines, meyakini bakal menemukan titik terang jatuhnya pesawat dengan nomor penerbangan MH 370 itu. (sms)


    3 Fakta Aneh di Balik Misteri Hilangnya Pesawat Malaysia Airlines
    Liberty Jemadu : 10 Maret 2014 | 02:36

    Suara.com – Hilangnya pesawat milik maskapai Malaysia Airlines di atas Laut Cina Selatan pada Sabtu (7/3/2014), menarik perhatian dunia bukan hanya karena 239 penumpang di dalamnya, tetapi karena keselamatan penerbangan telah banyak berubah dalam beberapa dekade terakhir.

    Jika hilangnya pesawat bernomor penerbangan MH370 itu terjadi satu atau dua dekade silam, mungkin media-media internasional tidak begitu meributkan insiden ini. Pada masa itu, kecelakaan pesawat terbang boleh dikatakan sering terjadi.

    Menurut Asosiasi transportasi udara internasional (IATA), tahun 2012 adalah tahun paling aman dalam sejarah penerbangan dunia. Ketika itu angka kecelakaan pesawat yang melibatkan jet buatan Barat sangat rendah.

    Menurut hitungan IATA , pada 2012, hanya ada satu kecelakaan di tiap 5 juta penerbangan, turun hampir 50 persen dari 2011, saat rata-rata satu kecelakaan terjadi di setiap 2,7 juta penerbangan.

    Ironi meningkatnya keselamatan penerbangan, bukan satu-satunya fakta yang membuat hilangnya MH370 menjadi menarik. Berikut adalah beberapa fakta yang membuat insiden itu menarik:

    1. Mengapa bukan saat tinggal landas atau mendarat?
    Menurut para pakar penerbangan, bagian paling berbahaya dalam perjalanan udara adalah tinggal landas dan mendarat. Sangat jarang sebuah pesawat mengalami kecelakaan ketika sedang melayang 11.000 km di atas permukaan laut.

    Misalnya pada kecelakaan terakhir yang melibatkan Boeing 777-200ER – jenis yang sama dengan pesawat Malaysia Airline yang hilang – yang menimpa Asiana Airlines di San Francisco, AS, Juli 2013. Pesawat tersebut mengalami kecelakaan saat akan mendarat San Francisco. Dari 307 penumpang dan awak dalam penerbangan itu, tiga dinyatakan tewas sementara sisanya menderita cedera.

    Menurut data statistik yang dimiliki Boeing, hanya sembilan persen kecelakaan terjadi saat pesawat sedang berada di ketinggian.

    2. Sangat cepat
    Hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines itu juga aneh jika melihat betapa cepatnya peristiwa itu berlangsung, sehingga para pilot bahkan tidak punya waktu untuk melakukan panggilan darurat.

    Kapten John M Cox, yang menghabiskan 25 tahun hidupnya terbang bersama US Airways, mengatakan bahwa apa pun yang menimpa pesawat Boeing 777-200ER itu, pasti terjadi dalam waktu sangat cepat – saking cepat sehingga membuat transponder pesawat tidak bisa mengirim lokasi terakhirnya.

    Meski demikian dia mengingatkan bahwa transponder pesawat itu bisa saja sengaja dimatikan dari ruang kemudi pesawat.

    Jika laporan yang menyatakan radar militer sempat menangkap gerakan pesawat yang memutar balik sebelum hilang, maka misteri di balik hilangnya pesawat itu kian besar. Artinya, menurut para pakar, kemungkinan pesawat itu meledak di udara sangat kecil dan justru memantik pertanyaan lebih lanjut, “mengapa pilot tidak memberikan sinyal darurat?”

    Tidak adanya panggilan radio mengindikasikan “sesuatu yang tiba-tiba dan berhubungan dengan kekerasan sedang terjadi,” spekulasi William Waldock, dosen mata kuliah investigasi kecelakaan pada Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Prescott, Arizona, AS.

    Keanehan itu juga memantik dugaan adanya aksi terorisme di pesawat tersebut.

    “Entah ada insiden besar yang bisa menyebabkan hancurnya pesawat atau adanya aksi kriminal, itu pasti berlangsung sangat cepat sehingga mereka tidak bisa melakukan panggilan radio,” jelas Scott Hamilton dari Leeham Co, perusahaan penyedia layanan konsultasi penerbangan di AS.

    Nasib pesawat bernomor penerbangan MH370 itu mungkin bisa terkuak jika puing-puingnya ditemukan. Jika ukurannya besar dan tersebar dalam radius puluhan mil, maka ada kemungkinan pesawat itu hancur di ketinggian. Penyebabnya bisa karena bom.

    Jika pecahan pesawat yang ditemukan berukuran kecil dan tersebar di area yang lebih sempit, maka kemungkinannya pesawat itu jatuh dari ketinggian 10.000 km, dan hancur saat menghantam air.

    3. Salah satu pesawat paling tangguh di dunia
    Boeing 777 adalah salah satu pesawat dengan catatan keamanan terbaik dalam sejarah penerbangan dunia. Pertama kali beroperasi pada Juni 1995, pesawat itu berhasil terbang tanpa cacat selama 18 tahun.

    Kecelakaan pertama terjadi pada Juli 2013, melibatkan Asiana yang terbang dari Korea Selatan. Hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines yang menuju Beijing, Cina adalah insiden fatal kedua.

    “Pesawat itu adalah salah satu pesawat paling tangguh yang pernah diciptakan,” kata John Goglia, mantan dewan nasional keselamatan transportasi AS. (Guardian/SMH)

    radar militer sempat menangkap gerakan pesawat yang memutar balik sebelum hilang



    8 Skenario yang Mungkin Dialami Pesawat Malaysia Airlines
    Liberty Jemadu : 10 Maret 2014 | 06:01

    Suara.com – Sudah lebih dari 48 jam pesawat Boeing 777-200ER milik Malaysia Airlines lenyap tak berbekas di atas Laut Cina Selatan, dalam perjalanan dari Kuala Lumpur ke Beijing, Cina. Belum banyak informasi tentang keberadaan pesawat itu, kecuali beberapa spekulasi yang berdasar pada sangat sedikit bukti.

    Sebagian besar dugaan mengatakan bahwa pesawat bikinan Amerika Serikat itu telah mengalami kecelakaan. Tidak sedikit pakar bahkan otoritas pemerintah mengimbau para keluarga penumpang untuk bersiap-bersiap dan menguatkan hati untuk menerima kabar terburuk.

    Meski demikian belum ada satu pun bukti bahwa pesawat itu telah mengalami kecelakaan. Tidak ada panggilan radio. Tidak ada serpihan puing yang sudah ditemukan. Satu-satunya petunjuk adalah jejak pesawat yang terakhir kali tertangkap radar-radar militer maupun sipil di sejumlah negara.

    Meski demikian, sejumlah pakar di seluruh dunia, mencoba mengemukakan skenario untuk menjelaskan apa yang sebenarnya terjadi dengan pesawat berisi 239 penumpang itu. Berikut adalah delapan kemungkinan yang disarikan oleh Guardian:

    1. Kerusakan struktur pesawat
    Sebagian besar pesawat di dunia terbuat dari alumunium yang memang rentan berkarat, terutama di area yang punya kelembaban tinggi. Tetapi melihat sejarah panjang pesawat dan catatan keamanannya yang unggul, para pakar penerbangan meyakini sangat kecil kemungkinan terjadi kerusakan pada tubuh maupun rangka pesawat.

    Kerusakan pada body pesawat bisa terjadi jika tekanan udara di kabin bertambah dan berkurang secara konstan. Itu biasanya terjadi saat pesawat tinggal landas atau mendarat.

    Salah satu contohnya saat Boeing 737 milik Southweast Airlines terpaksa mendarat darurat pada April 2011 karena ditemukan keretakan pada tubuh pesawat. Pesawat berisi 118 penumpang itu berhasil mendarat dengan selamat. Tidak ada korban jiwa dalam insiden itu.

    Tetapi keretakan semacam itu kecil kemungkinan terjadi dalam kasus Malaysia Airlines. Boeing 777 itu dioperasikan Malaysia Airlines untuk penerbangan jarak jauh dan hanya sedikit melakukan pendaratan maupun tinggal landas. Artinya rangka pesawat jarang mengalami tekanan.

    “Tidak seperti Southwest Airlines yang terbang 10 kali sehari,” jelas Scott Hamilton dari Leeham Co, perusahaan penyedia layanan konsultasi penerbangan di AS

    2. Cuaca buruk
    Pesawat dirancang untuk terbang melewati badai yang terburuk sekalipun. Meski demikian, tidak selamanya pesawat bisa selamat dari bencana.

    Salah satunya adalah pesawat Air France yang terbang dari Rio de Janeiro, Brasil ke Paris, Prancis pada Juni 2009. Pesawat itu jatuh di Samudera Atlantik akibat cuaca buruk.

    Es yang membeku di atas indikator kecepatan pesawat Airbus A330 itu membuat instrumen itu salah menganalisis situasi. Kesalahan itu membuat pilot salah mengambil keputusan dan akhirnya menyebabkan pesawat rusak. Sebanyak 228 penumpang dan kru pesawat tewas dalam insiden itu.

    Sama seperti dalam hilangnya pesawat Malaysia Airlines, dalam kasus ini pilot juga tidak melakukan panggilan darurat via radio. Hanya saja bedanya dalam penerbangan ke Beijing dari Kuala Lumpur pada Sabtu (8/3/2014), semua laporan menunjukkan cuaca yang cerah.

    3. Disorientasi pilot
    Menurut Todd Curtis, mantan teknisi Boeing yang bertugas merancang body pesawat 777 yang kini menjadi direktur Airsafe.com Foundation, kecelakaan bisa bermula dari kelengahan pilot. Menurut dia bisa saja pilot lupa menyalakan fitur autopilot dan selama lima atau enam jam membiarkan pesawat terbang ribuan mil dari jalur yang seharusnya.

    Meski demikian kemungkinan itu juga sangat kecil terjadi karena tentu saja pesawat itu akan terdeteksi oleh radar negara-negara di sekitarnya.

    4. Kerusakan pada kedua mesin
    Pada Januari 2008 pesawat milik British Airways 777 jatuh di landasan bandara Heathrow, London. Kecelakaan itu terjadi karena mesin pesawat kehilangan dorongan saat akan mendarat. Penyebabnya adalah karena pembekuan es di sistem bahan bakar. Tidak ada korban tewas dalam kecelakaan itu.

    Kerusakan dua mesin jet bisa terjadi dalam insiden ini. Tetapi, menurut Hamilton, pesawat itu butuh sekitar 20 menit untuk melayang sebelum benar-benar jatuh ke laut. Waktu itu bisa digunakan pilot untuk melakukan panggilan darurat.

    Langkah itu pernah diambil Kapten Chesley B Sullenberger saat pesawat Airbus A320 milik US Airways yang dikemudikannya mengalami kerusakan mesin pada 2009. Ia menyempatkan diri menghubungi pengendali lalu lintas udara sebelum mendaratkan pesawatnya di Sungai Hudson, New York.

    5. Bom
    Skenario ini sangat mungkin terjadi, sama seperti yang menimpa Pan Am Flight 103 pada Desember 1988 atau Air India pada Juni 1985, demikian juga pesawat Union des Transport yang meledak di atas gurun Sahara, Afrika pada 1989.

    6. Pembajakan
    Dalam kasus ini pembajakan mungkin saja terjadi, tetapi agak di luar pakem. Biasanya pembajak akan mendaratkan pesawat di sebuah bandara yang dipilihnya dan mengajukan tuntutan kepada pemerintah yang disasarnya.

    7. Aksi bunuh diri pilot
    Ada dua kecelakaan pesawat yang mematikan terjadi pada akhir era 1990an. Pertama melibatkan pesawat milik maskapai SilkAir dan maskapai Mesir, EgytpAir. Keduanya diduga dilakukan secara sengaja oleh pilot.

    Kecelakaan pertama yang terjadi di Sungai Musi, Sumatera Selatan pada 1997 diduga sengaja dilakukan oleh pilot yang berkebangsaan Singapura. Penyidikan oleh pemerintah Indonesia tidak memberikan hasil “karena bukti-bukti yang diperoleh tidak cukup.” Tetapi para pakar penerbangan di dunia sepakat bahwa kecelakaan itu sengaja dilakukan oleh pilot.

    8. Tertembak
    Pada Juli 1988 sebuah rudal milik angkatan laut AS tidak sengaja menembak pesawat komersial Iran Air. Seluruh penumpang dan kru, yang berjumlah 290 orang, tewas dalam peristiwa itu. Pernah juga, pada September 1983, pesawat Korean Airlines ditembak jatuh oleh jet tempur Rusia. (Guardian)


    Hilangnya Malaysia Airlines Mirip Kasus Pesawat Air France
    Ruben Setiawan : 10 Maret 2014 | 18:38

    Pesawat Air France hilang dalam perjalanan dari Rio de Janeiro menuju Paris.

    Suara.com – Hingga kini, puluhan kapal dan pesawat dari berbagai negara masih mencari pesawat Malaysia Airlines yang hilang sejak Sabtu (8/3/2014). Belum diketahui pula apa yang membuat pesawat Boeing 777-200 tersebut menghilang tanpa jejak tanpa adanya panggilan darurat terlebih dahulu.

    Tidak adanya kontak serta hilangnya pesawat dari radar secara tiba-tiba sangat jarang terjadi. Peristiwa ini mengingatkan pada hilangnya pesawat milik maskapai Air France pada tahun 2009 silam.

    Pesawat Airbus A330 milik Air France bernomor penerbangan 447 tersebut hilang dalam perjalanan dari Rio de Janeiro menuju Paris. Tak ada sinyal panggilan darurat sebelum pesawat hilang. Pesawat membawa 228 penumpang dan awak.

    Kotak hitam pesawat itu sendiri, yang berisi rekaman data penerbangan dan percakapan kokpit pesawat, baru bisa ditemukan dua tahun setelah pesawat hilang. Baru pada tahun 2012, tim penyelidik kecelakaan penerbangan Perancis (BEA) mengeluarkan hasil penyelidikannya.

    BEA mengungkap bahwa salah satu instrumen vital pesawat yaitu sensor kecepatan pesawat atau pitot tube, berhenti berfungsi. Sensor kecepatan tersebut membeku saat pesawat sedang melewati badai petir.

    Akibatnya, mode auto pilot pesawat pun tidak berfungsi sehingga kendali pesawat dikembalikan sepenuhnya kepada para pilot. Saat mencoba menembus turbulensi udara, pilot Air France salah mendiagnosa kondisi yang mereka hadapi. Hal itu terjadi karena pitot tube memberikan data yang tidak akurat kepada para pilot.

    “Terlepas dari gejala tersebut, para kru tidak sadar kalau mereka mengalami stall dan terlambat melakukan manuver penyelamatan,” bunyi laporan penyelidikan tersebut.

    Ketika mode auto pilot tidak aktif, seorang ko-pilot mengangkat hidung pesawat sehingga terjadi aerodynamic stall, yang artinya kecepatan pesawat tidak cukup untuk mempertahankan gaya angkat pesawat.

    Sejak munculnya peringatan stall pada pukul 2.10 dini hari, hingga pesawat hilang kontak empat menit kemudian, pilot sama sekali tidak mengirim sinyal panggilan darurat karena terlalu sibuk mengendalikan pesawat. (ABC News)


    Mengenang Tragedi Adam Air dan Air France: Pesawat Adam Air Lebih Tragis Dibanding Malaysia Airlines

    TEMPO.CO, Jakarta – Tragedi yang dialami Malaysia Airlines MH370 mengingatkan dunia penerbangan Indonesia pada tragedi pesawat Adam Air pada 1 Januari 2007. Dunia penerbangan Perancis juga pernah mengalami tragedi yang mirip dengan Adam Air dan Malaysia Airlines. Pesawat Air France hilang kontak pada Juni 2009 lalu. Bagaimana peristiwa tragis itu terjadi? (Baca: Masih Misteri, Musabab Insiden Malaysia Airlines)

    Pesawat Boeing 737-400 Adam Air pada 1 Januari 2007 pukul 12.59 WIB bertolak dari Bandara Juanda, Surabaya. Sesuai jadwal, penerbangan pesawat dengan nomor DHI 574 seharusnya mendarat di di Bandara Hasanuddin, Makassar, pukul 14.25 WIB, sebelum melanjutkan ke penerbangan ke Manado.

    Pada pukul 14.06 WIB, pilot Adam Air menghubungi ATC Bandara Hasanuddin, Makassar. Ia mengabarkan pesawat terkena crosswind. Namun, pada pukul 14.07 WIB, Adam Air hilang dari pantauan radar sekitar 157,4 kilometer arah barat laut Makassar. Waktu itu pesawat berada dalam ketinggian 10,668 meter. Sampai batas akhir bahan bakar pesawat Adam Air pukul 17.00, keberadaan pesawat belum juga diketahui.

    Keberadaan pesawat Adam Air baru menemukan titik terang setelah seminggu lebih dilakukan pencarian. Nelayan di pesisir Desa Bojo, Kabupaten Barru, pada 9 Januari 2007 menemukan puing-puin pesawat. Kotak hitam Adam Air baru ditemukan 28 Agustus 2007 di kedalaman 2000 meter di perairan Majene, Sulawesi Barat.

    Dari rekaman kotak Hitam, KNKT menyimpulkan kecelakaan yang menewaskan 102 penumpang itu disebabkan oleh cuaca buruk dan kerusakan alat navigasi.

    Rentetan kejadian saat itu menggambarkan pesawat Adam Air terbang dalam kondisi cuaca buruk. Pukul 13.29 WIB menara pengawas mendapati Adam Air berbelok di luar rute. Kemudian pukul 13.37, menara pengawas Ujung Pandang meminta Adam Air kembali arah semula. Waktu itu pilot dan kopilot berdiskusi tentang rusaknya alat navigasi.

    Pukul 13.56 pesawat mulai menukik. Pilot waktu itu berusaha memperbaiki posisi pesawat. Pukul 14.09, pesawat tak bisa dikontak lagi. Dari rekaman kotak hitam tercatat berhenti merekam pada ketinggian 2.743 meter, atau 20 detik sebelum terdengar suara pukulan keras dua kali.

    Kerasnya benturan pesawat dengan air tidak dapat dibayangkan. Kotak hitam mencatat ketika menghujam laut pesawat sedang melaju dengan kecepatan 1.105 kilometer per jam.

    Pesawat Air France, Juni 2009, mengalami musibah. Pesawat Airbus A330-200 termasuk pesawat canggih yang mampu tebang dengan kecepatan 880 kilometer per jam dengan ketinggian jelajah 10.700 meter di atas permukaan laut. Sejatinya Air France dengan nomor penerbangan 447 melakukan terbang malam pada 31 Mei 2009 dari Rio de Janeiro menuju Kota Paris.

    Namun, Air France hilang sekitar 300 kilometer dekat Kepulauan Fernando de Noronha, Brasil. Korban yang tercatat 216 orang penumpang dan 12 orang kru.

    Pada 2 Juni 2009, pesawat pencari dari Angkatan Udara Brasil melihat puing Air France di atas Samudera Atlantik. Ditemukan juga kursi, jaket pelampung, dan ceceran kerosin di lautan. Lokasi penemuan itu sekitar 650 kilometer utara Kepulauan Fernando de Noronha, Brasil.

    Pencarian hingga 17 Juni baru menemukan 50 jenazah, meskipun belum menemukan badan pesawat. Awal Mei 2011 dua buah kotak hitam berhasil ditemukan dan diangkat dari reruntuhan pesawat.

    Lamanya penemuan kotak hitam Air France disebkan kotak hitam terkubur di kedalaman 3.900 meter di dasar Samudra Atlantik. Kemudian pada Juni 2012 sebagian hasil rekaman kotak hitam dirilis dan terungkap kapten pilot Marc Dubois waktu kejadian pesawat hilang tidak ada di kursinya. Sang kapten baru kembali setelah dipanggil dua kopilotnya. Waktu itu dari rekaman kotak hitam kedua kopilot kesulitan mengendalikan pesawat dalam kondisi badai.

    Ahmad Iqbal
    Saya berhenti membaca artikel ini sampai di paragraf ke-3. Data yang digunakan tidak valid. Pertama, tumpahan minyak di laut hingga saat ini masih di tes di lab dan belum keluar hasilnya, jadi belum tentu avtur. Kedua, serpihan pesawat sama sekali belum ditemukan. Mengenai laporan adanya objek yang menyerupai pintu dan ekor bagian pesawat, itu tidak benar. Besar kemungkinan laporan tersebut salah atau bahkan palsu. Artikel ini terlalu terburu-buru dalam menyimpulkan dan tidak sabar untuk membandingkan dengan peristiwa serupa. Sumber: http://cnn.it/1hZj9uC


    Shuddering similarities between Adam Air tragedy and missing MH370
    KUALA LUMPUR, March 10, 2014

    While many have been pointing out the similarities between the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH370 and the crash of Air France Flight 447, the similarities between MH370 and the crash of Adam Air Flight 574 have been largely ignored.

    On Jan 1, 2007, flight 574 disappeared from air traffic controllers’ radar screens at 2.53pm local time, almost 2 hours after its 12.55 pm departure from the Djuanda Airport in Surabaya, Indonesia.

    The Boeing 737-400 plane, which was carrying a crew of 6 and 96 passengers, never made it to its intended destination of the Sam Ratulangi International Airport in Manado, North Sulawesi.

    The Adam Air flight was last shown cruising at an altitude of 35,000 feet on the radar screens at an air traffic control tower in Makassar, South Sulawesi.

    According to reports released by Adam Air, the plane’s beacon was last detected by a Singaporean satellite.

    Echoing the initial reports about the disappearance of MH370, no distress calls were made by the captain of the Adam Air flight, Refri Agustian Widodo, or his first officer, Yoga Susanto, before it went off the radar.

    The flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR) were only recovered 8 months after the crash, on Aug 27 and 28 respectively.

    However, the full wreckage of the flight and the 102 bodies of the crew members and passengers were never found.

    Investigation by Indonesian authorities and the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) found that the aircraft had crashed due to the fact that the pilots lost control of the plane after being distracted by the malfunction of the plane’s inertial reference system (IRS).

    The death toll of the crash remains the highest of any aviation accident involving a Boeing 737-400.

    The crash also sparked a large-scale review of transport safety in Indonesia and contributed to the liquidation of Adam Air in 2008.

    However, it should be pointed out also that Adam Air’s flight hit bad weather, as reported by the Indonesian Bureau of Meteorology and Geophysics.

    The bureau said cloud thickness was “up to 30,000 feet in height and wind speed was at an average of 30 knots in the area.”

    The plane was said to have encountered crosswinds of more than 70 knots over the Makassar Strait, “where it changed course eastward toward land before losing contact.”

    Meanwhile, MH370 reportedly did not run into any bad weather on the night it vanished off the radar.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 2:02 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    what will you do if your hopes are lost, gone, destroyed, destructed? create another one, brick by brick: an overarching purpose of life 

    key words:
    raising hope
    building hope
    hope & purpose of life
    systems of survival
    reinventing hope & purpose in life
    rediscover purpose
    finding an overarching purpose

    what will you do if your hopes are lost, gone, destroyed, destructed? create another one, brick by brick: an overarching purpose of life


    Recovery, Purpose and Nests
    by John Folk-Williams

    There is a link, though it’s a stretch, between recovery and the building of nests that occurs to me on this fine spring day, and I’ll get there in a moment. Right now, life is blossoming out everywhere. The stunning medleys of the mockingbirds are in the air, and there’s much courting behavior among all the birds: the strutting, chest puffing and singing of males, the coy approaches and retreats of females. And of equal importance, they’re building nests for their future young.

    I saw a crow sail up to a high spot in our neighbor’s spruce tree, not far from the towering line of eucalyptus where his kind usually hang out, a hundred feet above us. This crow carried a single thin, flexible twig much longer than his body. I wondered if that one strand was the first for weaving the nest. How do they begin – what holds the first piece in place? How long does it take to pick out and carry back all the twigs of just the right type – one strand at a time – until the whole structure is woven together? The crows know by instinct the intricate pattern to follow, exactly the materials to be used and the right shape and depth of the final product. The purpose it serves is just as clear.

    I may lack the instinct, but I’ve been learning to put together the pattern, the structure to support a new life. And there’s my homely analogy. I’ve been weaving a nest for recovery, one strand at a time. Getting started and having that first piece stay in place has always been the hardest part. I’ve learned all sorts of methods, patterns and step by step pathways to get out of depression. Time after time, the whole thing unraveled, no matter how strong it appeared to be.

    The problem of the various treatments I used was the way they handicapped my thinking from the outset. They were telling me how to stop something, to end addiction, to overcome depression, to reduce stress and anxiety. That’s aiming for a negative, and, as important as it has been to stop those plagues, I need to see the positive side too.

    Recovering means coming back from a loss, regaining lost ground. It is an activity, surely as hard as they come, which will support the future, but it is not that future itself. I don’t want recovery to become a constant. If I assume I won’t ever be free of depression and that I am always threatened by its return, I will have to apply the techniques of recovery as long as I live. But I don’t want to think or live that way. I can’t accept recovery as a life sentence, anymore than I can accept depression.

    I don’t want to understate or downplay the importance of recovery itself. It is a tremendous accomplishment. It has taken everything I had to keep going after so many failed attempts. I always knew there was a different self inside me that could live differently, however dim the memory of that person might be. Only a deep instinct to survive, a will to live, kept me going through so many years of depression.

    I celebrate that will and can never forget all I’ve had to do to get this far. For the recovery to last, however, as the earlier ones did not, I have to break out of the mindset that recovery as a life of constant vigilance is as good as it gets. As long as I think that way, depression continues its dominance as the condition I am always trying to control. I have to turn my mind and feelings toward a life with new purpose, not just a life in recovery.

    For one last shot at my metaphor, those birds don’t go about building their nests as part of therapy. They are building the means to nurture new life, to extend the species into the future. They are born with that simple and compelling drive.

    The instinct in people to live is just as basic – though for us it can be warped into its opposite by a mind estranged from its own nature. But we also need more, an inner meaning to guide the spirit to fulfillment. And that is what I’m moving toward now.

    Evan says:
    March 23, 2009 at 11:50 pm
    Hi John,
    I pay tribute to that wonderful will for life.
    I think it is possible to build the new within the old. Even while dealing with the old.

    john says:
    March 24, 2009 at 8:13 pm
    Evan – I haven’t thought of it that way, but you’re right – how could it be otherwise. The new is still me – a different potential that I’m now bringing to the forefront. That reminds me of an observation of a Jungian psychiatrist I once worked with – that in later life you move to a different point on the psychological type dimensions – more the feeling type than the thinking. So the whole of what you are gets full expression.
    All my best – John


    Recovery, Well-Being and Purpose
    by John Folk-Williams

    It occurs to me that recovery is past, well-being is now and purpose is the future. Let me explain.

    Recently, I wrote about recovery as a concept I no longer wanted to apply to what I’ve been going through. The word carried a set of assumptions that kept me within an illness frame of mind. It meant getting over depression or perhaps managing it well enough to function more effectively. The focus was on what I had been through in the past and could not completely escape in the present or the future. My life was stuck in time. Recovery would never end because depression would never fully disappear.

    But why did I have to start with that idea? Well-being, mental health, emotional balance, whatever you may call it – that’s what I was experiencing at the present moment. Why was I assuming that depression was the strong, well-being the weak force?

    There was an alternative that could start from the fact that I’m excited, full of energy, feeling good right now. I can stay with that and assume that this is my normal state – that I’m well. Every time a depressive thought or symptom comes up, I can refuse to go there. Think it, say it: I’m not going there. If it should get bad, ok – it’s like being sick with the flu, or if it’s a lot worse – like pneumonia. Treat it, get rid of it, then get back to the norm of feeling good.

    So I made a list of the assumptions I had carried around for so long. These are some of the big ones:

    * I have had a condition diagnosed as major depression for most of my life
    * Major depression is a chronic and self-sustaining
    * I am treatment resistant and will probably have this condition all my life
    * I hope for recovery, but none of the treatments work
    * Though I will have good periods, depression will always return
    * Medications aren’t very effective, but if I stop taking them, I’ll be much worse

    Once I had set the assumptions down and saw them staring back at me, they lost their power to guide my thinking, feeling, expectations about the future and the sense of who I was. Recovery has been taking place for a long time, and the assumptions had to change. They didn’t make sense anymore, and I could suddenly sweep them out of my brain. Recovery was about the past – living and well-being are the rich present.

    And what about purpose and the future?

    I kept thinking of Viktor Frankl and the story he tells in his classic Man’s Search for Meaning about internment in a Nazi concentration camp. Thrown into the midst of the worst torture and suffering imaginable, subject to arbitrary “selection” for death, living through the grueling work details and lack of food only by mastery of the small tricks of survival, he learned the lesson that would shape his later life and career.

    Without a sense of purpose, no one could live for long in those camps. He saw the truth that starkly. Those who could believe in a positive future, or even a single event like liberation from the camp, and who could sustain the will to achieve it, lived. Those who lacked that inner sense of purpose and meaning died. Those who held such an idea in mind could live as long as it lasted. Once it was lost or given up, they died. Learning the art of survival was not enough; there had to be a vision of what came next that transcended all the suffering.

    Frankl developed the basis of his psychiatric practice from such extreme experience. He believed – and I share that belief – that all of us need a sense of meaning and purpose not just for bare survival but for fulfillment as human beings. Since I have survived, that sense of meaning and the hope it engenders must have been much stronger than I imagined.

    Getting beyond survival, beyond the goal of recovery – that’s where I am now, shaping a new future while trying to make the most of the life that fills and surrounds me.

    What sense do you have of the role of will and purpose in getting past depression?

    Minu says:
    May 3, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    I am currently in the survival mode of depression. I am trying to get through the day and night without giving in to my despair. I have an insightful positive feeling for a short time followed by more despair, exhaustion etc.
    I am still trying to accept depression as a real illness, not something I can will myself out of. I am still blaming myself for not trying hard enough. But the truth is that I have tried hard all my life.
    I know my beliefs need to change in order for me to recover. I just don’t know how to do that…I want to have a career or at least be able to support myself in a meaningful way. I am so scared that I won’t be able to do that. That thought keeps my depression going. I need help to let go of that.
    Anyway, that’s all for now. Thank you for this blog, and for all of your insights.

    john says:
    May 7, 2010 at 9:00 pm
    Hi, Minu -
    I know how hard it is to keep going through a time of feeling discouraged and fearful about getting better. It really is true that depression is an illness and that there’s a lot more to you than that. It’s hard to find the methods that work – I’ve tried just about everything except sending electricity through my brain. In the end, I think it’s all helped – I urge you to look at the Sherwin Nuland video on his recovery (which did require ECT). It’s another moving testament about recovery from a man who almost lost everything to depression.
    My very best to you.

    John says:
    April 9, 2009 at 9:58 am
    Ironic, this last week I’ve been looking at the different phases I’ve gone through with mindsets of ‘diagnosed’, ‘maintenance’, ‘recovery’…now I’m on ‘living’.
    The cool thing for me is knowing now where I was years ago, months, and even weeks ago compared to now. Making better choices than I ever have in my life, and knowing that I’m healthy and living to make ones for greater tomorrows, today and then.
    Again, another wonderful post.

    john says:
    April 9, 2009 at 3:33 pm
    John -
    Thank you – that’s so encouraging to hear you’re doing well. It amazes me how the words and concepts can frame our whole outlook. Congratulations on great progress!
    Thanks for coming by.

    Merely Me says:
    April 7, 2009 at 5:25 pm
    Hi John
    This post reminds me to re-read this book. It reaffirms so many things for me.
    The way that I have always survived my moods is to think that there is a meaning and purpose to my life. Suffering is part of this meaning. I no longer resist suffering so much because of this. Not that I allow myself to become disabled by my moods but more so that I accept that these dark times are a part of my existence as a human being.
    I think nowadays the emphasis is upon eradicating any form of sadness. I am not advocating some romantic version of depression but being happy all the time is not my goal. Instead it is to find joy. There is a difference.
    Well I could go on and on but I will stop here.
    You always get me to thinking. Great post as usual.
    Was wondering if you could stop by to give your insights on a tongue and cheek post I have written about the history of depression “treatments.” Imagine using leeches to cure your melancholy!


    john says:
    April 7, 2009 at 8:57 pm
    Hi, Diane -
    Accepting suffering and pain as part of being human is hard, but I think that gets at it. You show incredible resilience, given the number of issues you have to deal with – and you remain a highly motivated writer despite the pain. Happiness, I agree, is not the way to think of what to aim for. Frankl is great on this. He deplores the idea that people should seek a happy equilibrium – what he emphasizes is both purpose and action in the world, a dynamic state full of change and surprises – not the same anodyne existence all the time. (I’m actually working on a post about that now.) I’d be interested to know more about how you distinguish between happiness and joy.
    Thanks so much for your insights – they always get me thinking.
    I’ll check out your post on treatments – and others, since I’ve been remiss in visiting my favorite blogs. I’m spending a lot of time on my new blog and other online ideas. Fortunately, I have the time now to focus just on this kind of work.
    All love to you – John

    Gianna says:
    April 6, 2009 at 4:06 pm
    I’m not sure this is in keeping with what you’re saying or not, but I simply don’t pathologize my feelings anymore. I’m okay however I feel…and the feelings pass through more quickly…like a rain cloud or some weather…or a burst of sunshine…etc…
    I don’t use clinical terms at all to describe my experience anymore and I don’t think in those terms either. This has been profoundly liberating.

    john says:
    April 6, 2009 at 9:53 pm
    Gianna -
    This is exactly what I mean – getting away from the illness words and assumptions. What you say so beautifully about feelings passing through quickly is a wonderful quality about well-being. Unfortunately, I’ve always had a way of pinning the feelings up on a wall to stop them for review – I wind up holding onto them and they whip up a storm trying to get out.
    Thanks for this comment!
    All my best – John

    RoasterBoy says:
    April 6, 2009 at 2:35 am
    Echoing the thanks, I’ve arrived at a similar place myself, making the transition from living just for recovery to some kind of new purpose. I hear the word ‘reinvention’ a lot, not only from my therapist, but even from people in business who are trying to cope with the external turmoil of the economy climate.
    To your question about the role of will and purpose, I believe that a certain amount of recovery has to take place before the will can function meaningfully.
    Depression robs me of the ability to do the things that I need to do to get better. There have been times when I was a puddle. No amount of exertion of will, belief in the future, or anything could bring me out of it. I required treatment in the form of meds, ECT, hospitalization, and therapy, along with tremendous and loving support from family and friends, to get my head above water.
    This varies widely from person to person, just as responses to crises, infections, or pollutants differ. My father, a welder, worked with asbestos all of his life, wrapping himself in asbestos blankets while welding inside boiler tanks. He lived to 93 with clear lungs at the time of his death. Another friend had a brief exposure to asbestos and died of lung cancer a few years later. It was, IMO, about genetics, not about will.
    Again, thanks for your good insights.

    john says:
    April 6, 2009 at 9:04 am
    RoasterBoy -
    Thanks for this interesting comment. It’s true, of course, that recovery has to take place and requires much of what you’ve worked with (I hope the ECT had benefit – friends of mine who’ve had it suffered serious cognitive loss for some time afterward). I discussed that more in the earlier post I cited in this one. I spent years in that condition of not being able to will anything, so what you hear from me now only comes after that long struggle for basic survival.
    There is evidence about the genetic basis for the disposition to get depression, provided the later life experience triggers it. But it isn’t the whole story, as it probably is with other diseases. However, no one really knows the whole story from a medical and research perspective, and each of us has to figure out what works and make the most of it.
    I wish you well with finding out where you go from here.
    My best to you – John

    Katharine says:
    April 6, 2009 at 12:45 am
    I love this post. Getting beyond the “survival” of recovery is something I have explicitly talked about with friends of mine also in recovery. There is more to life than survival, and sometimes, that gets lost in the bare bones scramble to hold on of recovery. Survival is necessary for living, but surviving is no way to live. It’s what reaches beyond survival that makes life worthwhile.

    john says:
    April 6, 2009 at 8:53 am
    Hi, Katherine -
    I love that line – survival is necessary for living, but surviving is no way to live. Great tag line for a blog! I’m starting to explore different approaches to therapy that emphasize this idea. Frankl does, and there is one I hadn’t heard of before called ACT – just trying to find out what its principles are. I’ll probably write about those and others by way of follow-up.
    Thanks for taking the time to comment.
    My best to you – John

    Lynn says:
    April 5, 2009 at 7:48 pm
    As usual, I couldn’t agree with you more. I think psychologists have done us a disservice by keeping those with histories of depression, alcoholism, or drug abuse “in recovery” for the rest of their lives. There is something better beyond recovery. Recovery is like getting a C. We need to strive for a B, or an A. The human spirit and will are stronger than any antidepressant. People can continue to function with severed limbs and other massive injuries when they need to. Active treatment of depression (planning a future, interacting, moving, talking, exercising) works better than passive (only taking meds). Depression looks back, anxiety looks around, happy looks forward. Yet the whole theory of depression today keeps focusing on neurobiology that we supposedly can’t control except with expensive drugs. I believe that human will is stronger than that, and by encouraging and expecting more out of those with a diagnosis of depression, we ultimately serve them better.

    john says:
    April 5, 2009 at 9:02 pm
    Lynn -
    That’s beautifully put, and you’re so right that “human will is stronger than that.” Looking back on all the treatments I’ve tried, it’s strange that not one therapist, psychiatrist or anyone else ever spoke about human will or my will to live without depression. There was always the principle that making progress was up to me – but that usually meant achieving catharsis and acceptance about the losses of the past – or achieving a state of tranquility and equilibrium. It’s definitely time to get a higher grade than a C!
    All my best to you – John

    Evan says:
    April 5, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    “You don’t have to be sick to get better” – Fritz Perls, one of the founders of gestalt psychotherapy.
    I once tried the thought experiment of doing away with the concept ‘therapy’, it had interesting results: e.g. ideas like a celebratory approach to life (including suffering). I don’t mean this to sound like I trivialise very real pain.
    Looking forward to hearing how you shape your life.

    john says:
    April 5, 2009 at 8:52 pm
    Evan -
    I love that quote! That’s an interesting thought experiment – there are so many things we just go along with that it’s refreshing to try turning them upside down from time to time. Something new always appears.
    All my best – John

    Sikantis says:
    April 5, 2009 at 3:47 pm
    A very impressive post, thanks. I thinnk it’s always important to write about positive personal developments to encourage others to do the same.

    john says:
    April 5, 2009 at 8:49 pm
    Sikantis -
    Thank you so much! There is something to be said for writing about the down side of things – mostly for the catharsis. But writing out of hope and good feelings is one of the ways I stay well.
    Thanks for coming by.


    Does Finding Purpose in Life Help You Overcome Depression?
    by John Folk-Williams

    Finding purpose in life that goes beyond your personal needs is often mentioned as a major step in overcoming depression. That’s a hard thing to imagine, though, when you’re in the middle of a severe relapse, and survival is the only goal in sight.

    Yet, one of the hallmarks of depression is loss of motivation to do anything because you feel that your life is meaningless. You are meaningless, empty, worthless, bad, nothing but a burden. There’s no sense of future, no purpose to give you hope and help pull you back to an active life.

    A sense of purpose goes along with building hope for the future, hope for recovering from depression and getting your life back. Even though you can’t focus on it when you’re struggling, hope and purpose are pretty basic for regaining a sense of who you are.

    The Long-Term Threat of Relapse

    Let’s say that medication, therapy, and whatever else you might do to get well, succeed in getting you back to a level of basic functionality. Is it enough to be able to sleep normally, feel more energetic, get your work done?

    Many would say: You’re damn straight it is! They’d be thrilled to recover that much, to stop the symptoms, even partially. But if you look to the longer term, there is no medication and no form of psychotherapy that can prevent relapse. The high rate of relapse is becoming one of the major concerns about dealing with this illness.

    Continuation of even minor symptoms greatly increases the likelihood that the illness will return. Something more is needed to help you keep depression at bay.

    Finding that larger purpose may not be enough either, but many stories of recovery – including those of Donna, Tony Giordano and I on this blog – describe it as a critical step.

    It’s not the first one. The first step is always to get control of the worst symptoms. After a while you need more to get to the next stage of living well, and a larger purpose may be part of the answer.

    What is “Larger Meaning” All About?

    Many of the most widely read books on recovering from depression emphasize the need to immerse yourself in activities that serve purposes beyond your own immediate needs. Richard O’Connor (Overcoming Depression), Martin Seligman (Learned Optimism) and Michael Yapko (Breaking the Patterns of Depression) are among the influential psychologists who urge this as a necessary part of recovery.

    Seligman says that the emphasis on individualism has replaced values that once focused on community, religion, family and a sense of social cohesion. The private good is more important for most than the public good, and as a consequence many of us seek fulfillment for ourselves as if we were independent of a greater social context.

    He believes that an excess of individualism is a social contributor to the vast increase in depression. His solution is to explore a role in community life that serves others as well as yourself.

    Victor Frankl, in Man’s Search for Ultimate Meaning (my emphasis), goes even farther. He says that the fundamental drive in human existence is the need to find meaning in life in general, not just in your life. He calls this transcendent meaning, one that includes us in a greater whole.

    Many find this greater meaning and purpose in God and spirituality or service to country or activism for social good. Frankl believes that a sense of purpose in your own life and self-fulfillment are the by-products of attempting to fulfill such a larger meaning.

    Putting yourself into an activity that goes beyond you – like Donna’s volunteer work, Tony’s new career in teaching, my own writing on depression – can make the difference between getting by and feeling fully alive again.

    Avoiding a Common Trap

    There is a potential trap here. Depressive thinking can twist the most fulfilling activities into more excuses for self-condemnation. That can happen if you start imagining that you’re not worth anything unless you have this larger purpose and unless you’re really good at the work you do to fulfill it.

    Your worth is not proportional to what you achieve in life. Part of depressive thinking and your inner critical voice keeps telling you that it is and that you always fall short. This is a classic example of all or nothing thinking, and it’s an ever-present danger for the battered self-esteem that is usually part of the illness.

    Cognitive therapy techniques can be effective in keeping you out of this trap. They enable you to assess each setback in realistic terms rather than as indicators of your worth as a person.

    How Do You Rediscover Purpose?

    How to you find this larger purpose if you feel you don’t have one? Starting at any level is important, and support groups build on your own need for help. You may look at them only as a means to feel better yourself. But what you’re doing is sharing with others. You’re helping them as much as they are helping you.

    I’ve rarely found it easy or comfortable to become active in face-to-face support groups because I get so anxious and self-conscious. It’s hard to be myself, harder still to trust others enough to open up. But I did find a place in one group that make a big difference in my life.

    What drew me into it was the concerned and non-judgmental response I got the first time I spoke up about my problems with depression. As the group continued to meet over time, we would share the good feeling when one of us made progress and empathize with anyone having a tough time. We had all had similar experiences, and that helped us talk freely.

    This may not sound like finding a meaning in life. That phrase suggests a great epiphany, a call from on high to some noble duty. But the reality is down to earth. You start at a level that feels good and supportive and see where you go from there.

    Alcoholics Anonymous has always understood the power of one addict helping another. Both are supported and both are doing something that goes beyond their immediate personal need. That’s why service became one of the three pillars of recovery from AA’s earliest days.

    I doubt you can live without a belief that there is some purpose to your life. It’s so common to hear people say that they want to make a difference. They want recognition, but they also want a sense that they’re doing something that will help others as well.

    This may be the farthest thing from your mind when you’re absorbed in a depression nightmare. But I feel it’s one of those anchor points I need so that I can look ahead with a little hope.

    Does this idea make sense in your work to get rid of depression? Have you been able to find a meaning and purpose that helps you keep your bearings at the worst moments?

    Donna-1 says:
    November 23, 2013 at 11:57 am
    “There is a potential trap here. Depressive thinking can twist the most fulfilling activities into more excuses for self-condemnation. That can happen if you start imagining that you’re not worth anything unless you have this larger purpose and unless you’re really good at the work you do to fulfill it.”
    Yes. Guilty. Another avenue to self-condemnation is denying yourself the chance to simply live free of depression, once you reach recovery or stability. That is a part of what you are saying, I think. Sometimes I feel I need to make up for lost time. All those decades I was not able to “contribute” to society. All the chances I missed to have relationships, to enjoy my family, to go for a walk and see something besides the tops of my shoes.
    There are times I sit and watch TV all day now, the rare afternoon I take a long nap, having fun following boards on Pinterest, even the fascination of realizing, “Hey, I’m not fighting for my life anymore.” I feel like I just got back from military deployment. I’m home, but still in shell shock. Still learning how to filter my feelings and my senses. Things don’t feel quite right, but I’m hoping they will soon.
    Voices are hammering at me from the past and present. “When are you going to get a job? When are you going to save for your retirement like your brother? Don’t you want to own your own home? At least you are are well enough now you could move in with your mother and take care of her. Why do you have all these great ideas and never follow through?” But if I listen to those voices, I’m right back on the battlefield. Getting no sleep. Anxiety attacks. Sliding down that slippery slope.
    My inner voice tells me recovery is not fully attained when the depression ends. There is maintenance. Keeping things in order. A very slow adjustment period. I need this time to acclimate, to rehabilitate my thoughts. Right now, this is more important to me than anything else. I just have to keep reminding myself.

    Ken says:
    July 6, 2013 at 11:45 pm
    One thing that gives my life meaning is my daughter. She’s 7 now. I’ve been through a couple debilitating bouts with depression but she was wonderful through it all. I don’t know how much she understood but she is the most accepting person in my life. I remember coming out of the most recent dark time and for the first time in months I was able to make her laugh so hard she got the hiccups. That was an amazing feeling and I imagine it was for her, too. At this point I never expect to recover from my depression and I’m trying to learn how to manage it and live with it. I carefully guard my energy because I know I don’t have much. But even if I’m sitting on the steps with my daughter and I play catch, there’s a feeling of contentment. In other areas, it’s a lack of energy and motivation which seems to be preventing me from working at creating meaning in my life. I have moments when I feel that I’ve been called to something higher than myself but I can’t quite find it. The passion is not there. But maybe I need to be more proactive and fuel the passion? I don’t know – it just sounds like a lot of hard work to me :-)

    Erin says:
    January 1, 2014 at 8:09 pm
    This is exactly the point I am at. I just feel so emotionally void, and yes, it sounds like a lot of work. I’d rather take a nap.

    Julie says:
    September 24, 2012 at 10:08 pm
    I remember hearing that Robin Wright Penn was credited for stating: “There is no sense of future” in describing what the world was feeling in
    the throws of this global economic melt-down but, true to my nature I had to make sure that I had remembered correctly who said it so googled what I felt perfectly summed up the world’s emotions as a whole. And I found your site. Lucky me! Just when I needed you most! Thank you all for reaching out to others as you have, it is the very essence of humanity.

    Laura Eckard says:
    September 9, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    I am currently working on getting my life back (again…) from depression and just happened across your blog and articles. I am finding them inspirational and thought provoking; I appreciate the comments and it is refreshing to read some truly supportive and insightful commentaries… Shared experiences can be so powerful. At times, knowing that I was not alone was the ONLY thing that got me through.

    Joanna Z. Weston says:
    August 17, 2012 at 3:49 pm
    When I first began to struggle with depression I was convinced that it was a spiritual crisis, and that if I could only figure out my life purpose, I would be fine. This was overly optimistic, but not totally off the mark. While I had to go through therapy and medication to reach a basic equilibrium, I didn’t start to really throw off the shackles of depression until I started working towards a life purpose. Not that I will ever be 100% free of it, but working towards something bigger than myself has allowed me to become much more free than I was before.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    August 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm
    Hi, Johanna -
    I agree that most therapy and medication can help stabilize you and limit the impact of depression, but it takes a lot more to find your life again. Sometimes, it not so much recovering life as entering it more fully for the first time. Purpose and meaning are essential – “much more free” is a good way to put it.

    Alex @ Raw Recovery says:
    April 25, 2012 at 4:18 am
    I actually just wrote and finished my senior thesis on Depression and Free Will, using Frankl as one of my primary sources. This is a great site and I’m so glad to have found it. I’m recovering from depression as well as other disorders and I believe we have a mental health crisis on our hands. It’s great to find others who are engaging in discussion about what is often taboo. Great job!

    John Folk-Williams says:
    April 27, 2012 at 8:25 am
    Thanks, Alex -
    I wish you well with your recovery and look forward to reading your website. Thanks for commenting.

    Sriram says:
    March 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm
    Great article. Abraham Lincoln probably is the most well known example of someone who transcended his depression by finding an overarching purpose.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    March 6, 2012 at 12:25 pm
    Thanks, Sriram -
    I’m waiting to get hold of Nassir Ghaemi’s recent book (A First-Rate Madness) on other great leaders who also used depression to their advantage. Ghaemi is a psychiatrist with a lot of interesting ideas – this is his first book for a general audience.


    Do You Have to Lower Your Expectations of Life to Recover?
    by John Folk-Williams

    Donna-1 recently asked me this question in a comment at Recover Life from Depression. It’s an important one to think about. I’ve often mentioned how crucial it has been to my recovery that I made basic changes in my work and way of living as a whole.

    Did I have to give up on hopes for what I could accomplish and settle for less in life in order to get better? My answer is No.

    But if you had asked me before I made the switch, I would probably have said, Yes. Leaving the work I had done for so long seemed like giving up on myself – and I didn’t want to do that. I had been feeling bad enough without wrecking the last bit of self-esteem and hope for the future that I had left.

    That’s the way I thought about the prospect back then.

    But since making those changes I haven’t felt at all that I’ve lowered expectations or given up on myself. Just the opposite. I feel I’ve gained a new life.

    I do sometimes look back with regret, but it’s not about giving up that high-stress life. It’s about having held onto it for so long despite its terrible cost to my well-being.

    There were strong reasons for resisting change, but they had more to do with what I thought I should do rather than what I wanted to do. There was a long history behind that way of thinking – all the way back to childhood. Early on, I started assuming that something was wrong with me, that I wasn’t a real person.

    I had to make up for that by trying to be first in every project I undertook. I felt instinctively that doing what I wanted to do was dangerous even destructive. I could only justify myself by working on what seemed to be more socially useful – by taking on a purpose that was not my own.

    For years I accepted this flawed belief about what I could and should do. I knew I was good at certain things and bad at others. I wanted to be a writer but believed I could never be good enough to make a go of it.

    As if to prove that, I kept trying to write in my spare time but soon hit a wall of fear that I couldn’t break through. My mind stopped working, and I felt only confirmation of the belief that I simply couldn’t do it.

    That was the real defeat, the lowering of expectations, the giving up.

    Donna also pointed me to a post at PsychCentral by Shannon Cutts that gets at these beliefs from a different angle. She refers to the story you tell yourself about what you can and cannot do. You relive this story with each choice you make that follows its assumptions. You fix yourself into it every time you tell your story to someone else. You don’t imagine that you can rewrite it, and so you avoid anything new.

    Jane Chin recently wrote two posts I find helpful in thinking about living in a trap like this. One talks about Why Failure is Good. If you always avoid the possibility of falling short, you will never learn that failures are survivable and can teach resilience.

    The other is I Don’t Know What I Want to Be When I Grow Up. If you’re preoccupied, even well into life, with the question of what you want to be, you can avoid exploring any new interest because it couldn’t possibly be the final answer.

    Both strategies can lock you into a narrow view of who you are.

    Add severe depression and a collapse of will and motivation, and you’re locked in even more. Anything new feels so impossible. What’s the point? I can’t do anything well. The only prospect is more defeat, more failure.

    It’s hard to follow the twisted logic because you’re hardly conscious of it most of the time. I lived that way for so long because I was often filled with drive and energy, but only when I felt secure that I was meeting someone else’s needs, not my own.

    In my (hypomanic??) periods, I’d spin out ambitious goals and stay high with them through the first years. Each was a career that felt like the real thing.

    After a while, depression would set in, and I’d start falling short in meeting the expectations I had set – and that others counted on. Especially over the last ten years, the illness got worse and worse, and it was clear to everyone that I was falling apart. No one is going to hire a person so depressed that he can hardly function – especially when they don’t know that depression is the cause. So when the possibility of retirement came up, it was the obvious choice.

    But right after getting out, I felt the kind of relief from stress, the lightness, that made clear how much I had been fighting myself. I felt deeply energized and vital once again. Changing my life in this way was decisive in getting me out of depression.

    There is, though, no instant cure for the illness. Recovery has to be supported every day, and that means, among other things, keeping the level of stress low. But that doesn’t mean cutting down my expectations of life. There are two kinds of stress. One bears down on you with the force of life that feels out of your control, a constant threat. That’s the one you have to watch.

    The other comes from the excitement you feel when pouring yourself into what you love to do. That’s the kind of stress you can live with.

    So, no, I have no feeling of expecting less of life. I’m finally doing the writing full-time that I’ve always wanted to do. Working hard in that way improves my life, and my wife’s as well, since depression has taken its toll on both of us.

    How do you feel about making big changes in your life in order to get better? Does it seem like you have to lower expectations? Do you dismiss the idea as impossible to do, even if you wanted to?

    Anna says:
    January 23, 2014 at 7:53 pm
    I have little to say except “Thank you for writing this.”

    Matthew says:
    May 15, 2011 at 2:03 pm
    Wonderful post and site. You have provided me with the inspiration to start a blog that deals with my recovery from depression. Thank you.
    I too have stepped back and allowed others to care for me and make decisions. I have been afraid to expect more from life, but I am working hard to make a better life.

    Donna-1 says:
    May 12, 2011 at 4:53 am
    These are very instructive and useful comments to a well-written post. I am wondering…without discounting the genetic predisposition aspect of depression…do you think that, in any sense, depression can be a result (or one of the results) of abdicating personal responsibility for our own lives, our own choices, and making others responsible for our moods? I can see very clearly that I have done this. But now I am making it a “priority” as Ms. Chin said, to treat myself and my opinion with respect and to pursue wellness on all levels. I can see where I have “used” my moods, even my psychosis, to manipulate others into taking care of me in the past. It honestly felt good to let others take control and make decisions for me. It is very difficult to climb up and out of that way of thinking. But I have a “kick butt” therapist who is helping me!

    Jane Chin says:
    May 9, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    Excellent post, John, thanks for including 2 articles I wrote to help others frame some questions around their life and work choices.
    I was thinking about this question the other day about “can medication ever replace psychotherapy” and my immediate answer was “no”. Because “normal” people get depressed too! Granted, their depression is situational and short lived and they usually climb out of it barring any genetic disposition to the illness.
    It got me thinking about the dramatic impact of our environmental signals and external stimuli that we allow to affect us on a daily, consistent basis. This coupled with a disposition for depression guarantees symptoms.
    The way that I see the equation, it’s not about settling for less in order to get better: the true statement is, “it is exactly because I know I deserve better, that I’m prioritizing getting better, from now on.” If I didn’t take care of myself and focus on healing first, there would have been no way (NO WAY) I’d ever imagine coming to where I am today.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    May 11, 2011 at 11:14 pm
    Hi, Jane -
    I like the way you frame the idea – knowing you deserve better and so prioritizing healing. For me, though, and several others I’ve heard from, it takes a while to develop an attitude that positive. The starting point is often a collapse at work because of depression. Many don’t realize that depression is the problem and just feel like failures – a belief in keeping with low self-esteem during depressive episodes. Even if you do understand that depression is the problem, it can seem like you’re being defeated by the illness and have to do something “less” stressful or demanding or “less” than full-time – the feeling is negative. I got over that pretty fast because I really wanted to do something different with my life anyway. But if you love what you’re doing and find you can’t do it anymore because of depression, it’s a very human, understandable idea that you’re losing something rather than taking time off to heal so that you can have the better life you deserve. Therapy is helpful in turning around the negative framing. As you come out of depression, of course, you’ll naturally think more positively about the future. I have to say, though, that I’ve worked overtime on the idea that I deserve better, since my self-esteem was surviving on deficit spending. I “know” I deserve better, but I don’t always believe it.
    I’m not sure I’m making sense here – but you’ve got me rethinking the question. And that means I have to write more about it!
    Thanks for coming by.


    Mapping Recovery-1: The Big Picture of Depression Symptoms
    by John Folk-Williams

    This post is the first in a series about how you can help yourself begin recovery. Depression can be a powerhouse of misery that leaves you feeling helpless, but it’s not one massive force, whatever it may feel like.

    Depression is a combination of several conditions, and there are effective ways to deal with each one. It takes a lot of trial and error to find the best treatments, but the steps described in these posts might help you get on the right path a little sooner. Here’s the basic approach:

    1. Get the big picture of depression symptoms and the dimensions of life they distort.
    2. Track the symptoms that most disrupt your life and the specific impacts they have.
    3. Choose the treatments and lifestyle changes that focus on those problems.

    Once you have this map in mind, the challenge then is working with it every day, despite setbacks. None of this is easy, or follows a simple logic, but it helps to have a guiding idea of what to do. You may well lose sight of it during the worst episodes, but it’s something to come back to when you’re out of those depths.

    Getting Beyond Helplessness

    What does your depression feel like? Most people I know answer this by trying to find words to capture the overwhelming nature of the illness. You’re under a cloud or a huge weight or drowning or flattened or feeling dead or living in a fog. You use some powerful image to get across the totality of the experience.

    You can’t do anything, don’t want to see anyone, and barely manage to drag yourself through the workday. Depression is a vast force you feel powerless to change. It seems hopeless, you feel helpless, you don’t know what to do.

    During my worst episodes, I felt exactly like that and for years couldn’t imagine anything else. That began to change, however, as I learned more about the full scope of the illness. There were not only a lot of symptoms that I had never linked to depression. There were also ways to group them so that I could see how they reinforced each other.

    This was no intellectual exercise. I had lived with the disappointment of ineffective treatment for a long time and knew I had to do more on my own. As I learned more, depression felt less like an overwhelming force and more like a complicated problem I could do something about.

    Learning the Full Scope of Depression Symptoms

    There are a lot of explanations and paradigms of depression symptoms, but most group them as disrupting the healthy processes of your body, thinking, feeling, behavior and relationships. A grouping of this type helps you form of picture of what your depression is like, but you can’t stop there. You also need to know how the symptoms interact, reinforce each other and sustain the illness over time. That’s the dynamic process of depression.

    To start with the lists, the best known one covers the nine criteria for identifying an episode of major depression. These symptoms are based on clinical practice as the most reliable ones for differentiating depression from other conditions. They’re not the only ones, but they comprise the crucial indicators that moves you toward a formal diagnosis.

    I won’t go into the details of diagnosing different types of depression – that would take several posts. As far as grouping symptoms is concerned, they’re broken out into two lists. The first group includes the two defining characteristics of depression. A diagnosis requires that you have one or the other.
    1. depressed mood much of the time or
    2. lack of interest, enjoyment or feeling for anything

    There are seven more, and the screening requires that you have at least five of them:
    1. significant changes in weight or appetite
    2. sleep disturbance nearly every day
    3. physical agitation or slowing
    4. fatigue or loss of energy
    5. feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt
    6. diminished ability to think, concentrate or make decisions
    7. recurring thoughts of death and suicide or plans or attempts to commit suicide

    This is the list you’re most likely to have encountered. You find it in every book about depression and on every mental health information website, along with screening tests that use these criteria. But the list is too short to capture the full scope of the illness. There are many more symptoms you might experience that are shared by countless others.

    Getting the Big Picture

    I’ve put together a more extensive list here, though you may find it still doesn’t capture everything you’re living with. I realize many of these symptoms don’t define depression exclusively since they could also indicate a different condition. However, all of them can and often do accompany depression.

    You may find it as helpful as I did to be able to link all these to the illness. It can be reassuring to know that a problem you thought was part of who you were turns out to be a treatable symptom. But there is a downside to long lists of symptoms.

    If you only count them up one by one, you might become more convinced than ever that depression is too overwhelming to deal with. That’s why it’s important to go beyond a bare list. Many symptoms are closely related and act together to intensify their impact. So it helps to group them, and many experts do that according to their effects on the basic dimensions of your life that I’ve mentioned: what they do to your body, thinking, feeling, behavior and relationships.

    That’s the way I’ve organized them here.

    * sleep disturbance
    * significant weight loss or gain
    * fatigue or loss of energy
    * physical agitation or slowing down of movement and speech
    * unexplained pain

    * diminished ability to think, concentrate or make decisions
    * ruminating, obsessive thinking
    * recurrent thoughts or death or suicide
    * impaired memory
    * negative thinking

    Mood and Feelings:
    * depressed mood
    * lack of interest or enjoyment in anything
    * hopelessness
    * irritability and anger
    * feeling helpless
    * anxiety
    * feeling worthless or guilty

    * self-defeating behavior
    * inactivity
    * lack of motivation
    * crying for no apparent reason
    * blaming and angry outbursts
    * attempts at suicide
    * substance abuse

    * social isolation
    * loss of empathy
    * unwillingness to communicate
    * emotional withdrawal
    * social anxiety

    You may divide up the symptoms differently, but breaking them out like this can give you a starting point for making choices about treatment. Before you can get to treatment, however, you need to profile your own depression in as much detail as possible. Making a list of all the symptoms you experience shows you how pervasive the illness is, but you probably don’t experience all the symptoms at the same time or always with the same intensity.

    It’s important to track them over time while looking also at what else is going on in your life. This is the way to get a sense of the overall patterns that sustain depression.

    I’ll explain how you might develop a profile and track depression in the next post.

    In the meantime, it would be useful to hear how you’ve thought about your experience with depression. Have you already put together the big picture of your illness? Is that a helpful approach, or does something else work better? Has learning more about depression in this way helped you take a more active role in your treatment?

    Do I have depression says:
    July 6, 2014 at 10:13 pm
    It takes mee about 5 seconds to be aware of how I feel and to realize that I need
    to respond to the messenger. Feelings, behaviours, thoughts and physical responses on your journey.It is surprising hoow soothing and
    therapeutic that simple little thing is.

    ange says:
    May 28, 2013 at 5:00 am
    After about 20 years of enduring a ‘colourful personality’ over which I seem to have no control, I’m trying to figure out if I’m mentally ill. My motivation for this is my two young children. Nothing is more important than being a stable, warm, loving and engaged mum to them. And at the moment, I’m not.
    For years I’ve experienced what I’m now calling ‘episodes’. When they kick in, I get angry really easily – at a loud noise, at one of my kids accidently bumping me etc, and I’m constantly managing irritability. I lose interest in things and lack motivation (housework, personal projects, work etc). I self medicate – alcohol, valium where I can get it. I get very negative, ruminating on things constantly, thinking about people close to me in a negative way. I think about death a lot. Not suicide, but I see the date on the paper in the morning and get the sense that it’s ominous, that today’s the day. I see a truck driving towards me and think ‘this is it!’. I think about what would happen if my partner died, I touch wood constantly, fearing the worst for my kids. I hide behind my hands constantly, sometimes I pretend I’m rubbing my eyes – other times when people are talking to me, I literally just cover my face with my hands. I often burst into tears for no good reason. I don’t want to leave my house, and I don’t want my partner to go either. I want us all to just stay home – but then I don’t want to be around them when we are. I probably have about a dozen ‘mental health’ days off work each year – the ones where I make up some excuse (gastro, food poisoning, the flu) because I just can’t face the world. During these times it takes me ages to return calls, and I dread talking to anyone – I avoid filling the car up with petrol because I can’t face the small talk. I dodge familiar faces in the supermarket if I’m not feeling ‘on’. I can’t concentrate, my memory is absolutely shocking – everything you have listed above basically. And I wrote all this down a few weeks ago.
    I’m currently trying St John’s Wort. It’s ok, but not arresting the lows, just making me a bit more lucid during the non-lows.
    I’ve tried 3 or 4 psychologists over the years in response to two major traumas I experienced – they didn’t work, in fact they seemed to make it worse.
    I did an online test on the Black Dog Institute website, and scored really highly on the ‘probability’ spectrum for bipolar disorder (but I don’t see how because I don’t get the extreme highs they talk of..).
    I’ve tried exercise and it makes me realllllly happy for a few hours immediately afterwards, and pretty grumpy for a day or two afterwards.
    Thanks to your website I’m now going to monitor my moods more frequently using the Optimism App.
    I’m also considering going to a psychiatrist and asking for a diagnosis and meds.
    I’m not sure why I’m telling you all this – why would you care!? I guess it’s to say thank you for your blog. It is reasoned, and unprejudiced. The hardest thing about this whole process is the secrecy, the inability to use the ‘d’ word, the judgement, the being bounced around by well-meaing NGOs, GPs and the broader public health system that doesn’t seem to know what to do with a non-suicidal-but-still-not-coping-very-well-case.
    Thank you,

    Anonymous says:
    June 9, 2011 at 10:13 am
    1.Get the big picture of depression symptoms and the dimensions of life they distort.
    2.Track the symptoms that most disrupt your life and the specific impacts they have.
    3.Choose the treatments and lifestyle changes that focus on those problems.
    Yes, I believe that all three of these are absolutely necessary in recovering life. And not just re-covering but at times re-building from the foundation up. Many of us have had symptoms of depression since an early age, so the history is there, the disruptions and impact are there and are usually quite obvious. But that #3, choosing changes that focus on the problem areas, that’s where I’m afraid most of us fail. I’m eager to see what you have to say about that. In my own life, my relationship with my aging and frail mother has come to the forefront not only now, in midlife, but at many times in the past. So I am focusing on therapy and lifestyle changes that will aid in dealing with the Consuming All-Mother…if you know what I mean. I am instituting changes that will restrict the flow of information from me to her while leaving open the reverse flow. Being available for her is important, but letting her live her life vicariously through me by seeing her input lived out – that soon to be a thing of the past. At age 52, it is necessary to make these changes to deal with her eventual death as well as to put right the excesses and exigencies of the past. To re-cover and re-build.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    June 13, 2011 at 10:01 pm
    Anonymous -
    That must be a highly stressful way to live, and I’m glad you’re working on changing the way you handle the relationship with your mother. I’ve found that changing life conditions to reduce stress has been a crucial part of my recovery. The effect of stress on depression – and vice versa – is one of those problems I was completely unaware of until a few years ago. There were other connections with depression – such as the connection with anger – that I never made, despite the fact that I’d dealt with depression since childhood and had extensive psychotherapy over several periods of my life. Perhaps I worked more with earlier generation psychiatrists who focused on probing the past in detail and the way it’s reflected in the present but who weren’t so concerned about attaching everything to a DSM label. Today there’s so much publicity about depression that it’s hard to miss the symptom lists – though the standard one is terribly incomplete. Nevertheless, most people who turn out to have depression go to their doctors complaining only of physical pain. Apparently, there are a great many people who need to learn much more about the wide range of depression symptoms.
    Thank you for commenting. I’ll get to the treatment part of this series next week.


    Mapping Recovery-2: Tracking Your Symptoms
    by John Folk-Williams

    Tracking your symptoms as part of mapping recovery might sound like one of those good ideas you’ll do for a while but eventually drop. It could be like all those computer programs for organizing your work into projects, goals and actions. The method itself becomes a big project and takes so much time that you can’t get anything else done.

    Or it feels like another of those pointless prescriptions for getting well that you hear all the time. Like the Otis Redding song: so many people telling me what to do, that I think I’ll remain the same. You know how rotten you feel so what’s the point of jotting it down?

    I used to think that way, and you may have the same impatience with the whole idea. But there are a lot of good reasons to do it.

    1. Why Track?

    Shift Awareness:

    Tracking is only a tool for learning more about your illness. And learning is a form of change, a waking up to awareness of the habits of depression. You’re learning to turn off the auto-pilot of living.

    It’s like feeling lost when you’re driving in an unfamiliar place. The first thing you do is turn down the volume of the radio or CD because you need to concentrate all your attention and awareness on your surroundings. You look more closely to find some marker to guide you.

    As you start recovery, your attention shifts from the voice of depression to your close observation of where you are. You’re turning down the volume of a voice that wants all your awareness all the time. That voice is your guide to staying lost.

    Tracking takes back the power of awareness to tell you where you are. You’re listening to your own voice instead of depression’s droning.

    Get Specific:

    Learning in general about the scope of depression symptoms is important. New knowledge helps you connect depression with dimensions of your life you may have thought were unaffected by the illness. That sharpens your awareness of what to look for but doesn’t fill in the details of your version of depression.

    That’s what tracking is for. It helps you see more clearly each of the problems you have to deal with. You can compare the effects of the symptoms you follow: how severe each one is, how long it lasts, how badly it damages your life.

    Take Action:

    Getting active in your own treatment is itself a big step toward recovery. Depression is all about inaction, inability to move, to make decisions or use your brain for much of anything. Whatever you can do, however small a step it seems, can help break that spell of paralysis.

    Improve your Treatment:

    Tracking gives you something to share with a therapist. It’s more reliable than your memory and provides a good starting point for discussion.

    2. What to Track

    There’s a lot more to learn about your depression than you might think. You can track a huge amount of information if you’re up for it. But if you’re like me, you might want to start more slowly and get used to tracking a few key things rather than take on everything at once.

    Getting Started

    The first form of tracking I tried, at the suggestion of a therapist, was simply to jot down each day what sort of mood I was in. I used a scale of 1-10 so all I put down was a number. That was good start because I got in the habit of paying attention to the ups and downs of my moods from week to week and month to month.

    Before long, I added mood levels for morning, afternoon and night. The tracking gave me – and the therapist – more detail to help explore what I was going through.

    That’s about as far as I got with tracking at that time, but it helped make therapy sessions more meaningful. Now I had a lot more specifics to work with.

    Going Deeper

    His questions about specific events and feelings opened my thinking to other possibilities for tracking. During each session, he’d ask me to be clear about what I was feeling as I recalled some incident, whether my body was tensing up, what thoughts were going through my mind, what I had done and said as that event had unfolded.

    Those were the details that brought the mood numbers to life. Not surprisingly, his questions centered on feelings, thoughts, bodily sensations, behavior and relationships – the five broad categories of symptoms that are so commonly referred to in discussions of depression.

    Although I didn’t consistently track all these dimensions, I started writing down a few phrases about them alongside the mood numbers.

    Before then, I’d often arrive at a therapist’s office and wonder what I was going to talk about. I couldn’t remember very clearly what had happened – unless it was something earthshaking – and tended to act as if I felt better than I really did. Now I was beginning to feel more like a partner in treatment. I went to the therapist actively thinking about what had happened the week before. I was no longer depending on him to wake me up to my own experience.

    Tracking All Your Symptoms

    Building on the kind of tracking I did, you could get into following the specific symptoms of your depression profile, such as sleep disturbance, pain, loss of energy; level of concentration, memory, negative thinking – whichever problems are causing the most trouble.

    You could also add notes about triggering events and memories and how you reacted to each one.

    You don’t have to limit yourself to what’s wrong. If you try to take care of yourself each day, you can track the wellness activities and compare the timing of those with the ups and downs of depression. You decide exactly what to follow and how much detail to record.

    3. Next Steps.

    By doing this, you’re becoming much more active in your own healing process, and I believe that makes a big difference in how effective treatment can be. Whether you use a simple system with pen and paper or an elaborate computer program, you’re taking a step back from depression.

    How you go about tracking is an important decision because the wrong choice can turn you off to the whole idea. Since it’s essential to find the tools you’re most comfortable with, I’ll review several in the next post.

    Donna-1 says:
    June 14, 2011 at 10:41 am
    On May 21, I started tracking my moods and some startling truths have already emerged. For instance, I knew I usually felt better in the morning. But every single day since I’ve been tracking, I have felt alert and calm and in a fairly good mood early, then as the day progresses I feel worse and worse till at night I am a basket case. I still haven’t gotten far enough to figure out if there is something I can do about this, or if it is just my own body’s emotional rhythm. But I’ve been writing down what I ate before a big mood shift, too, and it appears that a lot of carbs at once lifts my mood. I guess that is not such a stretch seeing as how carbs provide almost instant energy. But as this progresses I may find that I am able to stretch carbs out over the course of the day to my advantage. Nutrition seems to be a big key for my recovery.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    June 14, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    Hi, Donna -
    That’s the sort of discovery that has led me to start tracking again. I’ve decided to pay most attention to the problems I haven’t focused on in detail in the past. As you’re finding with nutrition, I’ve been linking anxiety and stress to depression for some time now, but I haven’t looked at how those two play off each other in day to day living. I had one of those no-duh moments when I realized that.
    As far as simple carbs go, I’ve always thought of them as comfort food. I’ve read that depressed folks do reach for those foods exactly for the mood boost. Years ago, when I was dealing with cancer, I made big changes in diet so it’s been whole grains and complex carbs for me. Anything with much sugar tends to drag me down, strangely enough, but food is definitely my drug of choice. Now there are exceptions to the sugar drag effect (intensified by lots of oils and fats) and guess what that is.
    I’m not giving up my daily 3 oz dose of bittersweet chocolate – which has obvious health benefits, especially with almonds.
    Keep on tracking – I’ll report on my findings soon.


    Mapping Recovery-3: Reviews of 4 Web Apps for Tracking Depression
    by John Folk-Williams ·

    The best way to understand depression is to track your symptoms and triggering events each day. The question is: How to do it. To start with, you might use a written diary, or just a list on note paper. But the more symptoms and triggering events you follow and the longer you keep up with it, the harder it is to reorganize the information to get a good picture of patterns and connections.

    That’s why I’m focusing on software in this post, especially online applications, or web apps, that you can access with a browser from anywhere.

    A good online mood tracker preserves all the data you enter over time, presents it visually in a chart or graph and allows you to print and/or download the results. You get a useful report instantly and can look at it in different views. Many web apps have mobile versions that you can use on a smart phone.

    But they’re not all created equal, and after testing a number of online mood trackers, I’ve picked out four to review here.

    Any software that’s new to you, whether online or on your desktop, can have a discouraging learning curve. The web apps, however, are designed to be simple and readily useful to visitors with little computer experience. After all, they aren’t written for geeks but for people with an urgent need to learn more about their illness.

    These four apps are quite different, so I won’t compare them to each other. They’re all good at what they do, and you’ll need to decide which one best fits your goals and style of working.

    Optimism Web App

    Optimism, available in desktop and mobile as well as online versions, enables you to track a large number of symptoms and many other dimensions of your illness and treatment. James Bishop, its author, recently made this a free application in all its forms. It was well worth the price at the time I bought it. Now that it’s free, there’s no barrier to trying it out.

    The opening screen is the first of five, as indicated by the five tabs across the top, shown in the two images I’ve included.

    That first screen is for recording several aspects of your condition. Though it might look a bit overwhelming at first glance, the use of sliding scales and check boxes makes entering information fast and efficient. The top section covers the basics of mood, coping, sleep, exercise and medication use. After that are sections for stay-well strategies, triggers and symptoms.

    You can change any of these or add new items. You decide how many are relevant for your tracking. The flexibility of the application means that you can adapt it for any other mood or physical disorder you may be dealing with. Here’s a screen shot of that form.


    Optimism Data Entry Screen

    Second is a chart for visualizing progress for a time period of your choosing. This summarizes the same data categories you’ve been recording. The third tab gives you a text version of the information that can be downloaded as well as emailed to a doctor or therapist.


    A fourth tab lets you isolate and make notes about individual items you’re tracking. The last tab brings up a screen for planning wellness strategies and treatments you want to follow.

    Tracking this much information fits my needs perfectly, but it may well be overkill if you’re just starting to follow your symptoms. The next three web apps are much simpler, as well as being free. All you have to do is register at each site to get access to the mood tracker, and you can do that anonymously.

    Bear in mind that there are a great many more mood trackers online. Several of the big health sites have them, but most prefer to emphasize symptom screening, rather than tracking, to help you figure out if you have a depressive disorder. I’ve chosen just three of the mood trackers that I find helpful and easy to use, but you may find others that fit your needs better. If you do, please let us know in the comments.


    MedHelp offers a good set of tracking tools with multiple views of your results. The starting mood entry chart enables you to track seven mood levels throughout the day, every hour if you want to. For whatever frequency you use, you can indicate levels of as many as 30 different symptoms. Another tracking section lets you record whether or not you’ve followed treatment each day, and a fourth provides space for five conditions that might contribute to mood, such as family or work issues.


    The visualized result consists of five sections stacked on top of one another. (For space reasons, the image shows only part of the full report.) There is a vertical bar chart for each day’s mood level, a graph showing the average mood over time, a chart showing the levels of as many as 30 symptoms, a section for treatment, and a final one for triggering conditions.

    Another thing you might consider about this web app is that MedHelp also provides trackers for many other health problems – like chronic pain. You may have an illness concurrently with depression, and you may want to follow that as well.

    I like MedHelp’s detailing of symptoms and the variety of ways for visualizing progress. As is often true on big health sites, navigation and instructions for using the tracker could be clearer, but on the whole this can be an effective system for monitoring your illness.


    PsychCentral is one of the oldest and most respected mental health sites and has amassed a wealth of information since the 90s. Its mood tracker is far simpler than the one at MedHelp, but simplicity can work well in capturing the essentials. The tracker helps you put together a basic portrait of the trend of your moods. You need to register on the site to use it, then, once logged in, you find the mood tracker under Quizzes in the menu bar.

    You enter data by using a sliding scale to describe your level of agreement or disagreement with 10 statements about how you’re feeling. There 2 more asking you to fill in blanks about the quality and amount of sleep. Here’s the list of all 12 – but without the lines for your responses.

    1. I feel sad, blue or unhappy.
    2. I feel full of energy, hard to slow down, or have been more active than usual.
    3. I feel my future is hopeless, or that I’m worthless and am a failure.
    4. I’d describe my sleeping recently as:
    5. My attention keeps jumping from one idea to another, or I have so many plans and new ideas that it is hard for me to work.
    6. I feel irritable or restless.
    7. I feel nervous, nauseous, my heart pounding, dizzy, or have had shortness of breath.
    8. I have lost interest in things that used to be important to me.
    9. I have difficulty relaxing or sleeping.
    10. I have had periods of tearfulness and crying and other times when I laugh and joke excessively, or my self-confidence ranges from great self-doubt to equally great overconfidence.
    11. I have periods of mental dullness and other periods of very creative thinking, or there have been great variations in the quantity or quality of my work.
    12. Average hours of sleep I’ve had per night over the past week:

    There is also a space for notes where you can add anything else you’d like, such as triggering events or treatments used that day.

    This information yields a numerical score for depression, anxiety, mania and sleep, with an indication of which ones might be cause for concern. A chart is also provided which organizes the information on a slightly different scale, with columns showing whether you’re above or below a norm. There is also a graph that shows the trends of mood and sleep over the period you have tracked thus far and a section showing all your saved data. The charts can be printed, sent by email or downloaded in PDF format.


    The charts and summaries are good, but the navigation is a problem. You have to go to three different locations to find all three versions of your data, and I missed one of them the first time I used the site. If you’re new to PsychCentral, this could be quite frustrating.


    HealthyPlace is another big website covering many health conditions and including numerous community features. Once registered, you can find the tracker under Tools in the menu bar under the header on each page. Once at the tracker, you’ll find a clear setup that lets you record basic data quickly. You use dropdown menus to answer the key questions. Here’s the full list of measures in the questionnaire.

    1. Select your Mood – You indicate your basic mood (elevated/manic, normal or depressed). Then you can choose the level of that mood.
    2. Your Anxiety – You can choose a level for anxiety and then one for irritability.
    3. Your Hours Slept – How many hours did you sleep in the last 24 hours?
    4. Your Weight – Enter your weight in pounds.
    5. Your Medication – You can add multiple medications and doses.
    6. Your Daily Notes – You can write a brief diary entry on triggering events, and as you continue using the form, you can look for patterns.


    You can print out a daily chart and a graph covering a date range you select. The program also generates a 30 day report. HealthyPlace has a prominent disclaimer and caution about using the tracker without consulting a mental health provider. To make it easier to relay information to your doctor, they include an optional alert form you can use to send a direct email, fax or SMS message.

    Although the information tracked is limited, the ease of use in filling out the form and seeing immediate results would probably help you use the tracker every day. That’s a big advantage since the charts aren’t very useful if you don’t add the data consistently over a long period of time.

    Using web apps is only one way to track depression, but after a lot of experiments I’ve settled on this solution. Whatever level of detail you want to follow, the most important thing is to track consistently – and to be honest with yourself with what you put down.

    Please use the comments to let us know what method you use and what you’ve learned from the practice.

    Al says:
    April 24, 2012 at 5:57 pm
    I just visited optimism online and found that they no longer charge for their online service.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    April 27, 2012 at 7:56 am
    Thanks, Al -
    I’ve updated the post to indicate the change. It’s great news. Optimism is state of the art for this kind of software.


    Mapping Recovery-4: Matching Therapies to Your Symptoms
    by John Folk-Williams

    If you’ve been tracking your symptoms for at least a month, you should have a fairly detailed picture of your particular variety of depression. You understand the full range of symptoms, when they occur, what other conditions in your life accompany them and which ones you’ve got to deal with first.

    Now comes the hard part – figuring out how to control the symptoms as soon as possible and, hopefully, get rid of them forever. You may hit the mark with the first treatment you try, but there’s a good chance you won’t.

    The search is likely to be a tough test of your patience and hope, and those qualities are in short supply when you’re in the midst of this illness.

    Focus on Learning Skills

    I lived through years of discouraging relapse and failed treatment, constantly looking for the right therapy that would at last undo depression. Finally I realized that I was looking for the wrong thing. This was the wake-up call:

    You don’t need therapies, you need skills. You need to drive your own treatment. Psychiatrists and therapists can be thought of as guides who teach you the skills you need.

    Focusing on learning skills is more helpful than focusing on finding the right therapist or treatment. Those choices are important, but they’re the means to the end of training yourself to get rid of depression.

    You can evaluate the usefulness of a form of treatment by looking at the practical skills each one teaches you. Some therapies depend on professional guidance while others can be mastered on your own, with the aid of recorded lectures and exercises, workbooks and support groups. However you learn about them, you have to practice the skills over and over.

    When you need them most, you won’t have the time or clarity of mind to recall how they work. They need to become habits you can automatically use.

    Most therapists draw on a variety of techniques to respond to your needs. If you want to go further with one approach, they can guide you to resources and contacts. In this way, you can learn new skills even without the benefit of working with a specialist in each treatment model.

    Types of Therapy and the Skills They Teach

    There are hundreds of books and studies about each therapy, and each has its promoters and detractors. It’s easy to get caught up in the endless debates about which therapy is best, which has the strongest evidence behind it, whether its claims are true or fraudulent. But all that is beside the point.

    It’s not a question of which therapies are right or wrong. If you’re focused on skills, you need to zero in on the ones you can learn from each form of treatment.

    To do that, I’ve found it helpful to relate therapies to the basic areas that depression affects: thinking, emotion, behavior, relationships and body systems.

    For example, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and its many spinoffs, like Positive Psychology and Well-Being Therapy, teach you methods for changing the distorted patterns of thinking that reinforce depression. I don’t buy the underlying concept that your thoughts determine your feelings, but that doesn’t matter. The cognitive skills this approach has taught me have been invaluable for dealing with negative thinking.

    Mindfulness-based therapies use meditation as a way of combining impacts at cognitive and emotional levels. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy or ACT combines cognitive techniques with skills to identify and change patterns of behavior that support depression.

    Psychoanalytically-based psychotherapies build awareness of patterns of behavior, feeling and thinking that are self-defeating. Dozens of therapies, like exercise, nutrition and yoga, teach you ways of influencing mood and brain health through the body.

    This sort of grouping can help you link therapies to the skills most relevant to your symptoms. Over time, you need to put together a variety of skills to deal with all the dimensions of depression you live with.


    There is one skill that I’ve found essential in order to benefit from any form of treatment, and that is awareness. It’s important in a couple of ways. If you’re not alert to all the changes that depression brings with it, you probably won’t use the therapies – or develop the skills – needed to deal with them.

    As a result, you may make some progress with the treatments you’re using but still feel that something is missing. You’re not completely well, and those remaining symptoms, even if they seem minor, are often the predictors of future relapse.

    Awareness is possible when you’re able to step back a bit from your symptoms. You can observe what they are and recognize them as dimensions of depression rather than unchangeable parts of your identity. Without that skill, I wouldn’t have gotten far with recovery.

    Meditation, writing therapy, peer support groups and many other methods can help you cultivate a level of awareness that keeps you alert to warning signs of depression. It’s one of the most important skills you can learn.

    Clustering Symptoms

    As you follow your depression, you’ll probably notice that certain symptoms feed off each other in a vicious cycle.

    I find that looking at these clusters of symptoms gets me away from formal labels and closer to what I’m actually living through. Labels for symptoms are pretty abstract, and there’s limited value in trying to understand the technical meanings assigned to each one.

    When I’m depressed, I tear myself apart and feel like a worthless creep. In terms of symptom labels, I can call that a cluster of low self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness and negative thinking. In my life, they’re three sides of one terrible problem, and I know how to fight them with a certain set of skills that I’ve learned from cognitive behavioral therapy, among others.

    That’s how I think about matching therapies to symptoms. I apply internalized skills to counteract painful experience.

    Donna-1 says:
    June 26, 2011 at 10:30 am
    CBT helped me because it wasn’t all talk on my part and all listening on the therapist’s part. Believe me, I went through 5 years of meaningless, fruitless therapy where I just talked and someone else just listened. I began to wonder just what kind of training she had received…then I began to wonder what I kept seeing her, so I stopped for a long, long time. Now, I am seeing a cognitive-behavioral therapist who speaks her mind and gives me assignments when I get stuck. I never wonder what her training tells her about what I’m saying, because she lets me know. I really do appreciate that. But early-on, before the “listening only” therapist, I had tried CBT and it was a total washout. I think a lot of what a particular type of therapy can do for you depends on where you are in the wellness process and what you’re ready and willing to do to move forward.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    June 28, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    Hi, Donna -
    I agree that therapy’s value does depend on where you are in the process – are you really ready to deal with things yet. But it’s also the therapist – a good person will draw you into the process even if you’re only partly with it. You can trust the current one because you know what she’s thinking and how she’s responding – and that she is responding. I went through two periods of therapy with psychiatrists who said nothing – apparently their interpretation of Freudian methods. I guess they were too young to have gotten more flexible. Two older psychiatrists with similar training were as open and responsive as could be, and I got much more from them.
    I’m interested to hear about your CBT therapist – I think there’s the same variety in therapists of every persuasion. Some use the methods mechanically, others bring it to life and make it deeply meaningful – they really see you as a person.


    Mapping Recovery-5: Does Your Life Support Depression?
    by John Folk-Williams

    Mapping the full scope of your depression requires a searching look beyond symptoms to include the way you’re living your life as a whole. When tracking symptoms, the focus is on what’s wrong, what you can no longer do. Following daily life means focusing on what you do, the specific actions you take in response to the situations you run into.

    By following your daily actions, it’s easier to spot the patterns of depression’s impact on the way you’re living. You can see more clearly when the illness seems to drive everything you do and when you feel have some room to maneuver. Those are the openings for change that let you begin a recovery process.

    Learning the Habits of Depression

    You know too well the pervasive impact of depression in undermining your capabilities, vitality, sense of self-worth and the will to take action. One of the most damaging effects on daily life hits the expectations you have about your future. You come to expect that things will work out badly no matter what you try.

    As this happens internally, you start acting almost by habit in ways that reflect all the negatives that now fill your mind. The worst experiences and the pain they cause become the standard guiding daily behavior.

    You may be afraid that if you try to take on these difficult problems, even when feeling better, you will provoke a collapse. You come to expect that you won’t be able to handle them and avoidance becomes almost habitual, often triggered outside your awareness, like a reflex action.

    I’ve found that tracking and mapping out what I do help me build the awareness I need to move forward. Here’s how I used the method and what I was able to learn.

    Becoming Aware by Suspending Judgment

    The first step is becoming aware of what I do and how that behavior is shaped by depression. Then I can start to ask questions. Why do I always act that way? Do I feel better as a result? Does it feel like a healing step or one I’m forced to do because of depression? Trying to answer at least gives me a starting point to work from.

    To do this, I realized that I had to suspend judgment. I needed to stop blaming myself and listening to mental tapes of self-condemnation. Instead, I had to pause the obsessive thinking about all my shortcomings and failures – and simply look at what I did each day and the situations I had to deal with.

    Patterns of Avoiding

    Avoiding the dangers of a depression crisis was for years the most common element guiding my actions in daily life. It’s probably the best example I can give about how the mapping process works for me.

    I put up many defenses to protect myself from depression, but most of them turned out to be self-defeating. I believed quite deeply at the time, however, that my best strategy for defending myself was to avoid the situations I couldn’t handle.

    Finding the patterns of avoidance – and the variety of methods for doing it – was the eye-opener.

    There were so many activities that triggered deep anxiety and the fear that they would overwhelm me. I’d tell myself: I just know that I can’t handle this right now. I’m exhausted or not up to it or incapable of responding. Often the trigger was an unfamiliar social situation, an unexpected demand at work, a difficult meeting.

    Whatever it might be, all the depressive beliefs and symptoms came to the fore: the cloudy thinking, the anxiety, the expectation that I couldn’t do it, my lack of ability, the certainty of failure, the loss of short-term memory, my slowed-down thinking and speaking, the droning inner voice telling me no, no, no in a dozen different ways..

    I felt I had to get away, to rest and recoup, find a way to deal with this – on my own, alone, safe. If I couldn’t get away, then I would disappear in place, hiding in plain site, saying nothing, feeling completely detached and uninvolved.

    Being passive was another strategy, leaving it to someone else to take the initiative, constantly deferring, not daring to impose my own point of view. I felt fear about my own emotions, that any feeling would be dangerous to release.

    I tried to avoid facing anger from anyone because I was dependent on what others thought of me. My own self concept sank so low that facing anger was unbearable, confirming my worst beliefs about being worthless. I avoided those situations as much as I could by trying to please everyone and preventing conflict.

    Asking Hard Questions

    These are a few of the patterns of avoidance that emerged. Only by recording what I did could I take a more detached view of what was happening. I tried to put down what I had done, what I was reacting to and what was driving me to act in that way.

    I could then start to ask questions. They sound simple, but it was hard to answer them honestly since I so often wanted to say I had no control over what I did. That wasn’t always true.

    Did it help to get away, to be alone? In a few cases, the answer was yes. There are times when severe depression leaves you no choice and you have to get help. You’ve got to get away. The isolation may not cure anything, but it’s one way you try to help yourself.

    Most often, though, avoiding hard situations plunged me deeper into depression. I felt like a failure. Stress and anxiety increased as I battered myself and sank into hopelessness.

    On balance, I realized that avoiding difficult situations usually cost me more than it gave. I was acting on fear most of the time, and I felt terrible living that way.

    Instead of giving me strength and time to get some energy back, it only increased the stress I was generating. I could feel myself frying in it.

    What stood out from the mapping was the way I was narrowing down the scope of my life. Trying to stay safe meant defending myself within a constantly shrinking perimeter.

    So long as I kept myself confined and alone, I excluded any opportunity for breaking out of depression. Mapping what I did provided no answers or solutions, but by adding a new level of awareness it helped me find a place to begin to change.

    Donna-1 says:
    July 2, 2011 at 3:19 pm
    The area of avoidance I deal with most often is in regard to intimacy and even casual friendships. I will open up to someone too fast because I am starving for a relationship with someone, often anyone. And then I pull back in horror upon review (isn’t this “review” a part of the guilt and self-blame?) Then I quickly backpedal and get out of the relationship. I’m sure it leaves the other person totally baffled as to what happened, and leaves me feeling even more guilty because it seems I have betrayed the budding relationship.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    July 3, 2011 at 7:49 pm
    Hi, Donna -
    That definitely qualifies as a life trap sort of avoidance. But at least, you’re reaching out to someone – trying to broaden instead of narrowing your life. The “review” is puzzling – or is it a gut reaction? It’s reasonable to worry about jumping in too fast – everyone probably has a story about a nightmarish misreading of another person. The reaction I often had in that kind of situation was a shame attack, not believing that anyone could really want to have a relationship with me. I guess I started to get around that when I explained to the would-be friend that I had this weird problem about getting to know people. That made a huge difference.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 2:01 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    what to do when you are losing hopes: admitting that you have suffered massive depression 


    Living Depressed

    Depression affects emotions, mental abilities, self-concept, behavior, relationships and the entire body. These core posts describe the full range of symptoms affecting daily life. Read More.

    Depression is an illness that affects many levels of health. We tend to think first of the drastic changes in mood and vitality: hopelessness, lost energy, confused thinking, broken self-esteem, paralysis of will – and thoughts of suicide. Those symptoms are devastating enough, but even they do not give a full picture of depression’s impact. It is not only a “mental” illness but one that interferes with the functioning of the human body in many ways. The brain and central nervous system, the heart and blood vessels, the immune system, our bones – there is growing evidence of the links between depression and diseases affecting all these.

    This section brings together posts about the full range of symptoms linked to depression and how they can affect daily living. Hopefully, that material will help you identify all the changes you may be experiencing. This knowledge, in turn, can set the stage for choosing the treatments that are most relevant to your life.

    Robert says:
    October 30, 2013 at 9:24 am
    I suffered from depression, accompanied by social anxiety and panic attacks for most of my twenties.It took a long time to receive any professional help. Initially I was prescribed anti-depressants which were very useful in helping to rebalance my mood to a point where I thought life might be able to continue. Whilst they also had some pretty unpleasant side
    effects, in my case they were the first step in my recovery from what had become a potentially life-threatening condition.
    I was incredibly fortunate in that a wonderful individual, who also happened to be a brilliant counsellor, moved in to a house just up the road at this time of my life. Going through counselling was the second step in my (very gradual) recovery. As the years have passed, I’ve realised that if one can succeed in beating the awful affliction of depression, the experience can teach you much about yourself and others. Indeed I am stronger and more resilient as a result it.
    However I still have to be mindful of my mood, as occasionally I can feel it sliding downwards. These days,though, I am much more aware of the early earning signs which helps a lot in taking positive action early on.
    My message is that YOU CAN beat this horrible condition, even though that may seem impossible when you are in the depths of it. If you can make even small positive changes as often as you can manage, these can add up. Help may come from unexpected quarters when you feel all is lost. Never give up! “If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?”

    amber1537 says:
    October 10, 2013 at 7:41 am
    I feel my depression comes from myself. I hate the way I look and talk. I try so hard to love myself and be happy but I just cant. I hope one day I can face my demons and be who I really want to be

    FiresideScarlet says:
    November 19, 2013 at 9:49 am
    Please don’t dismay. I’ve had depression all of my life, and I know from experience that it does get better, it can get better. Although I’ve been hesitant and downright stubborn with the notion of joining groups and keeping physically active, it really does make a difference. Now, I go walking, hiking, out to restaurants, movies, and all kinds of things with others. We go to art shows, potluck dinners, pubs, night clubs, jazz performances…anything is better than sitting at home. Even when I’m feeling low, I put my “game face on” and go! When I’m out no one knows that I’m depressed, because for a period of time I feel great! And the more you do this, you make memories, and you build up a lot of positive memories to think about. This, as well as journaling, meditating, walking my dog, volunteering and listening to my fabulous music, keeps me mentally healthy, and always looking forward to something new to do. My calendar is booked, not full, because I don’t want to stress out, but full enough that it reduces the time I spend alone and thinking about me. Find free events and join an active group where you live. You can find a group at meetup dot com. Not sure if you are allowed to post web sites here, so I wrote it like that. Good luck!!!!

    Barbara says:
    September 17, 2013 at 7:27 pm
    My father’s alcoholism and abuse brought me to the point of depression, anxiety, and psychosis. I’m fortunate to have had a lot of help dealing with all three issues. This has really given me an insight into the depths of the human spirit.

    phoebe says:
    March 21, 2013 at 5:26 am
    Does anyone else get spring depression? I don’t remember feeling like this last year, but I know the year before around this time (FEB-APRIL) I had it. My depression and anxiety get really bad. I’m crying a lot and have no motivation or energy. My negative thoughts are out of control. I am beginning to hate this time of year (which is actually a really beautiful time of year)!

    Nora says:
    May 13, 2013 at 7:05 pm
    At a recent appoint, my nurse practioner told me that researchers are finding a link between hay fever and depression. I am not sure that this is the case with you, but it might be something to consider looking into. Unfortunately, I don’t have any other information on the studies. When she told me, I was like…oh, that’s interesting. She asked me if I had hay fever. I used to, but I don’t now, and depression has stricken me for a longer period than the few months of spring. Thankfully, I am not getting treated for depression and am feeling much better.

    Swordfish says:
    July 1, 2013 at 8:50 am
    This time of year is actually the time where people in the Northern Hemisphere are the most deprived of Vitamin D. Vitamin D3 is mostly synthesized by being exposed to sunlight (dietary sources are negligible in comparison). February-April is a time when you have not been exposed to intense sunlight for a few months.
    I highly recommend reading “The Depression Cure: The 6-Step Program to Beat Depression without Drugs”.

    This book goes into more details about dietary supplements, bright light therapy, and more. Every step is supported by clinical studies.

    joanne says:
    February 10, 2013 at 12:44 pm
    Hi my dad has been a miner all of his life and had a good position in the heading training people etc.My brother also works at the same pit and wants to do what my dad does where the moneys good,but has to do night shifts. Aposition come up and my dad took it as he would have been working and trainning his son.He could not sleep and went back on shift work. Then decided to give night shift another go, after 2 weeks of hardly any sleep he decided to go back on shift work but they had give his job up, so it ment he was in back up going any where they sent him.Last night i found out he can not live with letting his job go what he has worked for all of his life, he can’t sleep he’s lost weight, and can’t stop thinking of what a bad mistake he has made. I have told him working with machinery and driving when tired is dangerous. He told me he fell asleep at wheel other day and my brother had to grab steering wheel. He is making his self ill , we as a family can not stand seeing him like this. I’m so worried about him can you please help me.

    shilps says:
    June 23, 2013 at 2:52 pm
    Dear Joanne ,
    I am touched by your story .
    This is a common problem people face upon retirement
    The brain is so used to the work that they just cant get out of it ,its a matter of habit , emotional attachment and their identity .That is the only way he knows to live and probably now after so many years of work that is the only thing he can do and is so good at .
    His sense of security is attached with it and he is feeling as if someone has snatched away that from him .
    What u can do is that dont let him be alone.Some one should be with him to give him emotional security .Speak positive and appreciate him and express gratitude for what he has done for ur family. That way u can keep watch on him without letting him feel that he is being watched.
    Also find out what were his interests that he has not pursued or that he wil like to pursue
    and help him to get engaged in that.
    He can be also engaged in some sort of training activities /community work as that will give him his sense of usefulness and worth and also keep him busy .
    Explain to him the dangers involved in work and that u all need him healthy and safe forever
    Help him to mix up with other retired people in your area .
    Let him play with kids /teach them something
    He can start to diary his experiences / learning
    He can also learn some new skillsets for safer employment suitable for his health
    Gradually explain to him that now he has to change himself and if not willing ,some one has to take a stand and tell him straightaway
    Hope that helps…!!
    Take care of urselves
    Also remembered the movie “October Sky”.Please see it if possible

    Will M says:
    January 31, 2013 at 10:48 am
    My partner of 5 years walked out over a week ago. Now she does not even email me.
    I now understand why she was unhappy but it was gradual and I didnt know how to fix it at the time.
    I’ve told her I would do anything to work on our relationship. I want her to come home, I love her unconditionally, I can’t even be angry at her. I have never felt this bad for so long. At least I know she is ok with friends. Being abandoned not knowing what she does it tough.
    She says she needs space, time to think and gives me no hope of even coming back, she says she does not know. Doing nothing as she wishes prevents me from trying to make it better, so frustrating.
    I know reationally that she needs to be without me, but for how long? How long does a woman need to decide? Every day is hell. She doesnt tell anyone what she does, I have no way of convincing her that Im serious about working on our relationship, i thought we would grow old together.
    i can’t imagine being without her, I don’t want to be with anyone else.
    Is there any hope, anything that I should do?

    K says:
    February 1, 2013 at 11:50 am
    I’m sorry to hear your story Will. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do ‘to make it better’, she needs to fix herself. The depression is making her push you away and you are going to have to be very, very patient. If you contact her, do not mention the relationship and how much you are missing her, as this will probably only serve to make her push you away even more.
    The Depression Fallout forum is a wonderful site from which to gain support in this awful situation. All the best, K.

    Patricia Robertson says:
    January 29, 2013 at 11:32 am
    I have recently started a blog on aging and depression; it’s more like a weekly journal. Have some readers that are friends and relatives, no comments. I am paralyzed by isolation, depression, anxiety, have been living in an apartment attached to my son’s and daughter-in-laws house which is good as far as our relationship is concerned but I have literally forgotten how to do anything for myself. We will be moving in the next 9 months into two separate condos, about 8 blocks apart, and I am terrified. There’s no social interaction in the building and my energy for getting out and trying to meet people is very low. I feel close to giving up.
    Can I post on this blog? Maybe some of the posts I would put on my own.
    My website is aginganddepression.blogspot.com or the full title is Aging and Depression: From Darkness into Light. Is there any way you could take a look at it and give me some pointers. I long for contact with someone, anyone.
    Thank you
    Patricia Robertson

    shilps says:
    June 23, 2013 at 3:18 pm
    Hi Patricia ,
    I read some postings from your blog. Dont feel depressed .You are always taken care of by the universe and God loves u much beyond ur imagination .
    I also found spirituality and meditation very useful to remove depression
    Also some other things like exposure to sunlight , deep breathing exercises ,listening to meditation music , drinking lot of water , eating the right food , eating lot of fruits and nuts ,meeting loved ones will help u .
    Focus on what u want and not on what u dont want
    What u focus on increases .
    So in ur blog start counting your blessings .
    Note down what depresses u more and avoid doing that .Observe urself continuously
    Note down what makes u happy and do that more ..!
    Forgive all those who have hurt u , as by not letting go u are hurting urself
    Dont spoil ur now for what has gone .
    For what has gone is only a memory now.
    Release all the emotions one by one everyday ..
    Bless all your enemies…
    Thank all the hard times they have given u as u have gained a lot from that too
    even if u are not aware of it .
    At highest level , we all are spirits and so no one can harm anyone .
    So its the role that people are playing in this life to act in a certain way to give u certain lessons in life and that also is agreed by you (as they say) before we are born .
    Express gratitude for improvement in health if any , for what u can still do
    Thank all your organs and express all that they have done in detail
    Express memories of great moments in your life
    What are the good lessons u learnt from ur life
    Thank all people who have helped u
    Express what u would like ur life to be from now onwards..!
    Take care of urself

    shilps says:
    June 24, 2013 at 4:31 am
    Hi Patricia…
    Hope u will be reading my reply and it will be useful to u and others who read it .
    Since u can use the internet , u can learn something new everyday
    That will keep u healthy and motivated
    Also u can share the practical knowledge u have acquired like
    Small tips for bringing up kids ,Relationships ,Marriage ,Cooking
    Or u can share practical experiences :
    Funny Incidents in your life , Great People u have seen and what u liked about them ,
    If u can list out things u think one should do at different phases in life ,
    it will definitely help the next generation
    You can also write about :How u handled certain situations gracefully , how were the difficulties in life overcome by u or your loved ones, what was their mindset , experiences of having helped people or received help and your feelings that time,
    realizations of existence of God, etc…
    Some one somewhere may be needing this information and ur knowledge will
    be useful to them
    Memories get overwritten as we get new perspectives and learn
    to practice forgiveness, gratitude , compassion ,acceptance ,appreciation ,Love
    Also when u find some usefulness of ur life ,some purpose you will get the energy ,circumstances and ability from life to do it ..!! :) Your health will improve too .
    “When u find usefulness of ur pain
    U will realize nothing has gone in vain ..”
    Every moment in ur life is not just about ur life
    u are a part of the universe …it takes a lot of resources and efforts of
    different components of universe to keep u alive
    Appreciate the gift of Life!!
    ur life is not just ur life…share it with others and feel one with the universe
    ur body is not ur body …u are the God of all thats there in ur body
    and u can act to forgive ,love , be grateful ,care and serve every part of ur body
    Let this mind create some value for the world , Let this body be at service of this universe
    and it will receive all healing energies
    Now u dont need appreciation , compensation ,rewards for ur work
    Let the work itself be a reward!!
    Feel joy in Giving !
    Think of what u would like to give back to the world
    and evaluate what is possible for u now
    I am sure u will be able to Just Start Doing it …!!
    Take care…

    saurabh garg says:
    March 24, 2014 at 9:06 pm
    I am 26 year old. please suggest me I always thinking of die ,I think what benefit of living life and fear one day I become old and die by heart attack.and life is very small.

    CJ says:
    April 12, 2014 at 7:32 am
    This is for you, Saurabh Garg. It’s also for ANYONE and EVERYONE who may be thinking of suicide as a “way out” of your suffering. That is not an answer. Life can be long, satisfying, and very beautiful! But please don’t set your goal right away as “finding happiness”, not yet anyway. In the beginning just set your goal as dealing with those dark times and getting relief from suicidal thoughts. Be kind and gentle with yourself, and love your SELF and the beautiful gift of your life. There is lots of beauty around you, just look and see.
    Please get immediate assistance and find someone who can help you when you feel this way; they will refer you to helpful professionals who will coach you, listen to you, give you resources, and get you on your way to a happy and fulfilling life. But you have to do some work also, even though it can seem impossible when you’re really down in a dark place. I’ve been there, too. First, make an appointment with a doctor and TELL THEM you think you have Depression and want to see a professional for a diagnosis and possible ongoing talk therapy. They will later talk with you about using medications, and it will be up to you if you take them or not. You do NOT have to see a Psychiatrist at first. You can visit a Psychologist, a Social Worker, a Minister or Priest or any other clergy you may know of, but start with someone trustworthy and with valid credentials.
    Go easy on yourself; you don’t have to be perfect. Find ways to lift up your mood that suit YOU. Go for a drive in the countryside. Walk in the city gardens. Go for a spin in the park on your bicycle. Visit an animal shelter and see all the dogs, cats, bunnies and other furry animals that will make you smile. Bake some cookies. Visit a fond auntie or uncle. Watch a comedy flick. Phone a friend who always tells you a joke. Go for an ice cream. Listen to upbeat music. Get on the treadmill and work up a sweat or lift a few weights. Go down to the riverside or to the beach and appreciate Mother Nature. Buy some flowers. Practice Yoga if you don’t already. And then, if you need medications, well, go for it. They DO help. Yet they aren’t the only ticket back. Your life choices can make a huge improvement in your outlook.
    When you’re active and exercising, a lot goes on in your body to make you literally healthier and happier. Just a few of the hormones released in exercise are: endorphins, dopamine and serotonin. They all play a part in making you feel really good, alive, and vital. This is where you want to be, but you’ve got to do the work.
    Best of luck. Live long and be at peace!

    saurabh garg says:
    April 28, 2014 at 8:34 pm
    Thaks CJ.
    You Do good job. I am very motivated by this.

    Rita says:
    December 30, 2012 at 4:07 am
    Hi there
    I have a partner for has been previously in three relationships which broke down, and re married etc..he has in all 4 children and 3 grandchildren. I hv now been with him for 5months, and within this time he has had three lots of depression, and he cuts me out, and sends heartbreaking messages to me by email and mobile. It takes about 4 to 5 days to come out of it, and when he does he is really sorry about it. He tells me sometimes he wants to commit suicide etc… I am new to this , and dont know what to do to help him. I have said to him, never to send me messages like this again. i hv asked him whether he has mention this to his GP but he said no, what do I do or say to him. I find that the repetition of this is too close together , and it may be worse, the way I see it. Let me know.
    Regards .

    Sophie says:
    December 14, 2012 at 7:57 am
    Im an 18yr old girl whom just finished my hsc. Ive had depression since i was 15 but it keeps getting worse.. Ive attempted suicide more than a few times and ive seen a couple councellors but nothing seems to help. I tried talking to my friend at 16 but it got spread all over school that i was attention seeking. After that talking to people seemed impossible. I feel as though someones watching me all the time. Sometimes i can sleep all day and then sometimes not at all. I dont know what to do? How do you get better? It seems impossible..

    John Folk-Williams says:
    December 15, 2012 at 8:22 am
    Hi, Sophie -
    It really is possible to get better, but it can take time to find a way of dealing with depression that works for you. It’s always good to start with a checkup to rule out physical causes, like a thyroid problem. Have you seen a doctor who can do a thorough evaluation and diagnosis? I know it can take time to find a counselor or therapist whom you trust and have confidence in, and it can also take time to find an effective medication, if that is thought to be appropriate for the worst symptoms. But you can find both. There are therapy methods that have helped me and millions of others, especially with the patterns of thinking that make you believe there is no hope for getting better. There is hope. It is important to stay connected with people who really care about you – they can’t be your therapists, but spending time with them just to hang out really can help, even if you don’t feel like it. It’s good to learn as much as you can about depression too. You can start with other posts on this blog about recovery but also look at the many other sites, books and videos I mention in the Resources section. And please feel free to stay in touch here when you have more questions or just to sound off.
    All my best to you -

    Swordfish says:
    July 1, 2013 at 9:18 am
    If you have tried conselling and/or medication and haven’t seen any change, I highly recommend you read “The Depression Cure: The 6-Step Program to Beat Depression without Drugs”.

    This book starts from the insight that our western way of life is toxic to our mind and bodies. Fortunately it is possible to improve our situation with exercise, dietary supplements, sunlight exposure, etc. Every step is supported by clinical studies.
    The only part of this book that could be improved is the chapter about stopping rumination (negative thought loops). I would recommend mindfulness meditation.
    Article: http://www.fastcompany.com/3009764/dialed/the-big-chill-out-how-meditation-can-help-with-everything
    Video with meditation expert Jon Kabat-Zinn (author of the book “Wherever You Go, There You Are”):

    FiresideScarlet says:
    November 19, 2013 at 10:03 am
    If you need a friend who has experienced this all her life, please get in touch with me. I’m here. There is help, just ask your doctor for a referral. I don’t know who you’ve talked to but psychiatrists aren’t that good for depression. I’ve seen a psychologist, and also a social worker. There are many different kinds of therapies out there. One suggestion: laughter yoga! It is REALLY therapeutic! Just keep looking and NEVER give up on YOU. You are alive and you are beautiful. You deserve to love yourself. That feeling of someone always watching you is something that I have experienced. It can go away; mine has. Personally, I think it is a form of self consciousness, but if it gets out of hand, it can lead to some kind of paranoia. Don’t worry, it can be helped and you can control it. I used to have panic attacks, and I know that they arose out of exactly that feeling. I was overly self conscious and always felt someone was staring at me. This I think is called “hyper vigilance”, at least my therapist mentioned this once. Try relaxation methods, yoga, deep breathing, calming music, meditation, and so on. You are not alone in this, it is HUMAN to have these feelings!! Even if someone IS looking at you, what harm can they do to you? Ask yourself “What is the worst that can happen?” Confront that feeling and you will gain control over it. Eventually it will subside.

    Nat says:
    November 4, 2012 at 6:54 am
    Hi i just found this site and think your feedback and help seems really good so i thought i would share… I havent wrote on any sites before but i am struggling and worried. I am 23 and have suffered with depression since i was 18 and anxiety since i was 14. I have been on and off tablets, started seeing a therapist last year but stopped going because i couldnt even make myself go to that. Right now i am down and scared and feel so negative about my future. I recently got a temporary job after being made redundant in february, felt okay when i started on a steady level but the last month i started with the depression and then my anxiety increased and panic attacks. I had some days off work, spoke to them and saw occupational health (with it being the nhs they were quite helpful) been in the last 3 weeks – it is only weekends though which makes me feel even more rubbish that im struggling even with that! Ive veen to the doctors again on tablets but never really feel like im taken seriously. I thought i was doing a bit better apart from in the week just feeling like in completely wasting my life and time. But this weekend i couldnt do it again. I will have list this job now, feel like such a failure and crap person. I still live at home and they just get annoyed at me. I have a boyfriend who ive been with for 5 years and really happy with him but feel guilty for what he puts up with. I have extreme self esteem issues. Sometimes i get so angry. Im sorry this is so long! Its hard to make short im really sorry. Just trying to give as much info as possible. Just also add that i suffer with ocd which worsens with the anxiety, i have quite bad eczema which drives me mad and makes me feel ugly and i pull my eyelashes. I sound like such a case! I dont know what to do about jobs and myself. I need a job like everyone i need money. I just feel so stuck.
    Thank you for reading this. I really appreciate it!

    shilps says:
    June 23, 2013 at 3:54 pm
    Dear Nat ,
    U are stll very young dear and thats the most precious gift u have now…TIME
    Start counting what u have and be grateful for that ,appreciate urself for that and be grateful to life .Things like:
    Having a boyfriend for 5 yrs is a great thing!!
    Having experienced a love relationship is a wonderful experience
    U have a family which is at least allowing u to stay with them
    U are staying in a country where women have freedom
    U had landed up with a job which means u have the capability to get employed..
    U worked for few days rite…?
    U are able to overcome ur attacks and be able to blog here..!
    U made an attempt to see a theapist….
    U are able to identify ur problems
    U still have the desire to get over this……That is the most positive thing I can see!
    Congratulate urself for this all…
    U are a tough fighter that inspite of all odds u have still managed somany things
    Now list down what u want and believe that u will get it
    ” I am mentally healthy and capable of doing what I want to do now”
    ” I am financially self sufficient “
    “I receive love ,respect and support from my family and boyfriend “
    Negative self talk lowers self image and so convert all negative words u use to positive affirmations .
    Help someone …Kind acts raise self esteem
    Love yourself …Only then others will love you ,
    Keep watching motivational movies and talks from net
    Tell ur self ” Whats happening is a part of universe and i am not the only person experiencing this . I am continuously protected by universe .I am in harmony with nature
    My body received healing energies and gets healed quickly
    I am strong and healthy .”
    Identify what u really want to do in life and all procrastination , fears ,obstacles will go away automaically…Be patient !!

    shilps says:
    June 24, 2013 at 4:05 am

    nat says:
    June 24, 2013 at 8:32 am
    Hi again, thank you for your reply and all the positives you pointed out. It.was a while back now i was feeling.that low, and its strange when you read it back. I have been signed off work for 6 months and seeing my doctor, getting a better routine with my tablet and kept on with them with out gaps etc. Aand they really do help. I use to not like the idea of a tablet to make you happy but i realise now it is like having any illness you take medicine and it helps.. Will never cure but makes a huge difference. I do worry about coming off them but step at a time, making most of feel good right now. I still hve my moments worries anxiety but not at the level it was last year when iwrote.
    Reading back i feel like i soinded really ungreatful for the things i have, and i promise im not. I realise and knew then how lucky i am for my boyfriend, family and age etc. And they make me so happy but as you know when depressed it doesnt matter for some reason you just arent happy. Which then made me feel so guilty and hate myself even more. Especially being young and thinking why am i like this?! Then feel even worse for that. Everything is just grey and youre in a sort of bubble a grey bubble. At the time you wish your well self and positive self could pop in and talk to you.. If you know what i mean! Anyway, appreciate you writing back and for the video. I love to find natural help. The worse you feel the worse the eczema is. At the moment its a lot better, more under control like the depression and anxiety.
    This is a great site and helped me express when needing to, just want to say to people in that place at the moment.. Even though i know you have probably heard it all before and it might not help right now but keep repeating to yourself “i wont always feel like this i WILL feel good again”. Cos you will, take any help you can, talk, see someone, take medication if need to. But it will pass, might come back for periods in life but you wont always feel that low and can get under control and find lots of ways to help.
    My thoughts to everyone on here

    heather says:
    September 21, 2012 at 11:53 pm
    I just started new medication, and I have seen an increase in panic attacks and anxiety. My husband isn’t supportive and is using my illness as a threat. Go take your pills…if I say or do something wrong. Even said I am worse than his ex wife….I am so so broken

    John Folk-Williams says:
    September 26, 2012 at 4:17 pm
    Hi, heather -
    I think you should talk to your doctor about the medication and tell him that you can’t tolerate the side effects. As far as your husband using your illness as a threat, that sounds like a lot of anger and abuse. Can you discuss this with a therapist or someone you trust?

    edna nieves says:
    September 21, 2012 at 5:53 am
    hi im married with a person who get a bid depression bc he lost his son like 8 years a go i was in depression too bc i lost 7 ppl in 2 years but went iwant to talk to him he dont have the tipe i fell alone i had 4 tenager and everytime went i go to them they never had time to listen to me can u help me out what i can do.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    September 26, 2012 at 4:14 pm
    Hi, edna -
    It’s really hard when no one in your family will listen. Is there anyone else your husband would be able to listen to who could talk with him about the depression? Sometimes another family member can help or a clergyman. It’s often hard for a man to talk about depression or hear about the effect of his depression on his family because he could well feel that he has failed to handle his own feelings or failed to be a good husband and father. It helps to approach the subject without talking first about what’s wrong with him – but instead about stresses he’s under – sympathizing with how difficult things are. I can’t tell what would be appropriate, but just remember that men can feel a lot of shame about an emotional problem.

    Ravine Hotel says:
    July 30, 2012 at 12:03 am
    I am looking around on the net searching for the best way to Living Depressed and your website happens to be extremely professional. Nice article.

    clynically depressed says:
    July 28, 2012 at 9:15 pm
    Doing all this-fixing myself-seems too, too, too tiring…

    John Folk-Williams says:
    August 3, 2012 at 9:22 am
    Hi, clynically depressed -
    I know. That’s the problem with suggestions for self-help – you feel you can’t begin to practice them. I’ve always tried to find the smallest starting point – I have a post somewhere that describes a moment like that. I stood up from my chair and walked out the door into the sunlight. I could at least do that when I felt a certain way. It was a start. I hope you can find something like that at least.


    Depressed: No Friends, No Life
    by John Folk-Williams ·

    Lately, I’ve come across a number of questions online by plainly anguished people, asking: Why do I have no friends, no life? The first time I saw one this blunt, I reacted almost defensively, laughing as I recalled an old film in which a man hires a private detective to find out why he has no friends. Isn’t it obvious? But I knew so well how much the question implied. Lonely and depressed, I had often asked that same question, or at least felt the need to ask it.

    I wrote an earlier post about the difference I experience between loneliness and depression. Loneliness is a sadness at the loss of close relationships. It drives me to reach out to people. Depression pushes me away from them. When I feel these two at the same time – as I can if the depression is not too severe – the tension of these opposing forces makes it all the harder to find the help I need.

    Thinking back over many years of living with depression, I can quickly find many reasons why I had such trouble finding a friend to talk to when I most needed one. (I’ll set aside the much worse problem of not talking to my wife. I’ve said a lot about the reasons behind that, especially in this post.) Here are some of the problems from my experience. I can’t say how true they might be for others.

    1. Sometimes it wasn’t I who had an issue with reaching out but friends who had trouble opening themselves to listen. Many people refuse to talk about depression or other serious illnesses. I first found that out when I had cancer. It was stunning to me that a few people I had known quite well simply disappeared from my life. Though I never heard any explanation from them, my wife and I believed they couldn’t face the risk of emotional involvement and possible loss.
    Depression adds another dimension. Many may feel helpless in the face of a friend’s pain and despairing mood. When I reached out for support, some friends were sympathetic but at a loss as to what they could do to help. And, of course, some friends are not in the habit of probing their own emotional lives and run from the idea of listening to someone else trying to go deeply into feelings. That’s a language they haven’t learned and never want to know.

    2. One habit of my own depressed thinking was to assume that everyone I met had the same negative and contemptuous view of me that I did of myself. I projected my own shame into their minds and then retreated before the dislike I was sure they felt. It’s so strange to imagine that this could have been such a common occurrence, but it was. I stopped myself from reaching out because I “knew” these friends wanted to have nothing to do with me.

    3. Then there was the isolating drive of depression, the belief that I was in too much pain to face anyone – too lost in despair to move. I believed I could survive only by cutting myself off from everyone, yet that only intensified the feeling of having nowhere to turn. I ruled out the possibility that anyone could break through the wall I’d put up around me. The result was that I went more deeply into despair. Eventually, the crisis passed, but it wasn’t the isolation that had helped me survive. That only increased the likelihood that I might push myself over the edge.

    4. When feeling more numb than despairing, I could often get out and talk to people, even at social gatherings. But I became very nervous at what I might say. It wasn’t uncommon for me to make an attempt at getting to know someone or to get into a personal issue with a friend. But the words I found myself speaking were not at all what I intended. They had an edge to them, putting a jab into each pleasantry, souring a compliment with a sarcastic tone, or pouring out so much so fast that I sounded impossibly egocentric and uninterested in anyone but myself. I acted like someone I would never want to know. Of course, people could tell at once that I had “issues” and walked the other way.

    5. So often, I had to mix with people when I wanted only to hide. I made it hard for anyone to find me, no matter how many people might be in the room or how prominent my role was supposed to be. Emotionally, I lost connection with what was happening and just watched it go by. I felt so small and tried to be invisible. If anyone asked me a question, I’d become tongue-tied, or, if I tried to say much, the words and thoughts came with painful slowness. It was impossible for anyone to talk to me.

    6. At other times, anxiety and fear could hold me back from talking freely. Taking part in conversation was hard because I had to double-think everything I wanted to say. There was a danger in the simple spontaneity of conversation among friends – a danger for me of any uncontrolled talking. I had to reflect to get the words just so, and then would miss the right moment as talk flowed on to something different. It’s hard to imagine now, but talking freely felt risky, as if an inner violence might escape my control.

    7. Apart from all this, there was the natural reaction anyone might have at suddenly hearing from me when I was in need of someone to talk to. Wrapped up in myself and in depression, as I was, my reaching out was an attempt to meet my own need in a one-sided way. Not only that, but my friends would not find me at all even if they wanted to listen and offer support. I wasn’t the same person because I was driven by the strange, isolating rules of depression. Even if I didn’t want to be hidden, I was nowhere to be found.

    All this added up to a comprehensive strategy for remaining friendless. And that’s what it was – a series of my own actions to keep me isolated from the help that friends might offer and pull me out of the life I’d had with them. This hit me one day when I was the one who was asked to listen to a friend in the midst of a terrible depression.

    I met him at a restaurant for lunch one day, and I could tell at once that he had changed in a way that made him hard to recognize. Of course, he looked and sounded the same, but there was nothing in his words or reactions that was like my friend. He was lost, partly in rage, partly in despair.

    When I tried to tell him the deep sympathy I felt for what he was going through, that only made him angry. More than that, I felt a deep rage boiling inside him as his eyes stared through me with steel intensity.

    It was especially hard to see him this way since I knew I was looking at myself.

    What has your experience been in trying to reach out to friends when deeply troubled?

    Kortni says:
    July 9, 2014 at 1:42 am
    Up until the moment I read this the things you stated hadn’t crossed my mind. Thank you for that. Tremendously. You have no idea how much reading this has helped me.

    Jenn says:
    June 30, 2014 at 8:24 pm
    I’m a single 42 attractive woman that has absolutely no friends. I have been immediately dropped, suddenly accused and blamed for untruths or misunderstanding of my intentions whenever I’ve become close with someone. I certainly apologize for making mistakes yet I remain hated. I used to be extremely social but have done at least 1 thing to most acquaintances that was judged harshly that they no onger speak to me. The loneliness is nearly unbearable and when I do attempt to get to know someone, I invite myself by asking if I can join and keep in contact all while feeling extreme insecurity and stupidity. I am not good at socializing anymore and it seems to be getting worse. I cry ever single day. My life changed drastically due to an emergency back surgery in 2010. Over the past 4 years and now needing yet another level 5 back surgery, I have lost everything and I’m currently at a poverty level I never imagined. This increases my depression, anxiety, insecurity and greatly limits what I can afford to do, not to mention my physical inabilities which greatly impact walking and standing. I feel like I’m sinking deeper & don’t know where to find friends that will accept me as I am.

    annemarie says:
    July 2, 2014 at 11:42 pm
    Hello Jenn,
    I just wanted to respond so you knew someone was out here reading/listening to you and that you are not alone! I can totally relate to loneliness being unbearable. I feel the same way. I am lucky to have a few friends to talk to, but it is difficult when so much of your life is in turmoil and you don’t want conversations to focus too much on your own problems. Three years ago my husband of over 20 years filed for divorce unexpectedly, moved out within a couple of weeks, and we had to short sell our house as I couldn’t assume the mortgage on my own, so I lost a home I had been paying on for over 2o years. Nothing to show for it and had to walk away. 3 months later, my company downsized, and everyone in my dept was laid off. After 21 years, I was unemployed for the first time ever. I’m now 55, renting, and just lost the second of 2 jobs I’ve had since the big layoff. I was ‘ fired ‘ from both due to performance issues/ low numbers ( I’m in outside sales ) and am now struggling to job hunt once again with very low self esteem and fighting depression. Anyway, I know our situations are not the same, but wanted to let you know once again, please don’t feel totally alone. Your story touched me and I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you!

    Aurora says:
    June 26, 2014 at 8:23 pm
    I am 20 years old, and have been 3000 miles away from my family and friends for a year now. I work full time, 8-12 hour days Monday through Friday, I’m up at 5:30 every morning and in bed by 9. I have no friends here, just friendly co workers who never invite me anywhere. Why didn’t I just stay home and go to school. Now I feel like I’m never going to do anything in life except work to barely make it by. I live with my boyfriend but he doesn’t understand. He is lucky and just a happy person. Life is getting me down.

    Carly says:
    July 2, 2014 at 9:39 pm
    Hi Aurora,
    I have been in a similar situation to yourself when living in New York away from my family in Australia. All I can say is, I was like this for four years before I made changes and went back home to study. I regret not moving back earlier. If I had just been able to be honest with myself about how unhappy I really was, I would have made changes earlier. It’s not too late – I wish you the courage to make the decisions you need to make to be happier and healthier in your life.

    Carly says:
    July 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm
    Oh and just to let you know I have been struggling with depression for about 7 years. My darkest days were in New York when I was away from my family though – I was suicidal there and not in a good place. Moving back improved this immensely as did getting doctor’s and counselor’s help.

    Dell says:
    June 26, 2014 at 4:45 pm
    I am a 40 year old single lesbian, I do not have kids and I don’t have any deep friendships. Even my relationship with my family is shallow. I work, come home, waste time and go to bed. I am back in school so that’s giving me something to do. I’m sad and lonely. I’m attractive and lots of women try to get with me but it’s never the women that I want. It’s not like anything is wrong with them I just don’t connect. I feel I don’t connect with anyone. People are always talking to me at work but they have lives after work. People like me on facebook and my posts get lots of likes but I never connect with these people outside of facebook. I feel like something is wrong with me because I don’t know how to connect with people. I try doing things like working out or going places but I start feelings pathetic and desperate. I don’t know what is wrong with and ask people to tell me what it is and they just say nothing is wrong, you’re nice and cool. And I’m thinking well why don’t you like me, call me or invite me anywhere.

    Carly says:
    July 2, 2014 at 10:23 pm
    Hi Dell,
    I think it takes courage to reach out to others and say, hey, why don’t we get together for coffee sometime? Chances are, people are thinking the same thing but are too shy to ask. Also, you are a unique person and worth getting to know. Be yourself – but you have to reach out to others – they are just waiting to connect too. I would strongly suggest taking up a hobby or volunteering, or taking a class of interest. I met lots of people through school, volunteering, and art group, even though I’m mature age. Just find something that interests you as a hobby, cause you’re passionate about to volunteer for, or something new to learn and people will be there too! You can connect over common interests. Don’t give up and don’t settle for having no friends, I’m sure there are people out there who also are waiting to make a friend, I know many people who have room for more friends as they are quite shy too.

    Carly says:
    July 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm
    Also, people probably don’t not like you, it’s definitely negative self perception creeping in there. You have no real way of knowing what’s going on in another person’s head until you ask.

    Arne says:
    June 25, 2014 at 2:49 pm
    I didn’t see the word ‘bullying’ anywhere in the article or the posts. I’ve been bullied, ridiculed, and socially rejected or ignored most of the time for the length of my life that I can remember. As a guy, I was told or expected to ‘fight back’ if I was being bullied or ridiculed. Unfortunately, that was bad advice for me; it’s always made a bad situation worse.
    I lived with few or no friends throughout childhood, declining eventually to zero in young adulthood. The result is that I’m introverted, lonely, anxious, and depressed. To me, this all seems like a natural process that I didn’t have any control over. I find it best now to ‘play defense’ at all times and do whatever I can to avoid situations that I can anticipate will cause me any more mental and emotional pain.
    Bullying probably seems to many of my age that it’s overhyped in the media as a social problem in schools; it seems like one of the signs that America’s ‘gone too soft’. After all, aside from the added bad influence of social media, bullying and social rejection/isolation aren’t new; when I grew up, nobody would’ve even thought about bringing up the subject. It was just part of life.
    I doubt I’m the only person with this type of life story. The only way to feel better is not to beat myself up over it. No one asks to be born.

    Sierra Lynn says:
    July 9, 2014 at 12:19 pm
    Hey Arne,
    I am 20 years old and I am going through the same. Being diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder seemed to be the start to a solution, but it only became a title, a word. I was bullied, tormented, used and abused by people in my school years and by my alcoholic/drug addict mom. What she did and said was the worse. I literally fear going anywhere and fear having a conversation with anyone (even virtually/text based) because the expectation of them losing interest and the fear of rejection because of the years I spent being told, programmed into what I am…I understand what you are saying. I do.

    Todd says:
    June 24, 2014 at 6:35 pm
    I am 45, at this time in my life I am unemployed, financially almost destitute. Do have a brother and sister , who I never hear from.
    Early when I was younger it was tough for me to feel hurtful , negative things that were directed right at me. And would end up not wanting to be around others that did that, because I did not want to feel it again. Kids can be cruel, and I got alot of that while at school.
    Have I given people forgiveness, yes. Things are still hard to forget.
    I believe I hate myself for what I have become, and never felt like I was any good, since I was younger.
    Another thing that happened was while younger i starting to have Epilepsy, a neurological condition, which i still have to this day.
    Other things that were obvious at times, was my Mother who was constantly screaming at times. She had bad depression and still does do this day. Somewhere I feel, I was telling myself I was to blame for how she was feeling. She also had Epilepsy while younger. And from what I heard, dealt with parents that were always fighting.
    I may not be one that is open to listening from people. That might be because of how i closed people out and never gave some a chance and thought there was never any love to receive.
    I am passive aggresive as my Dad is, he would never interject anything. Don’t recall ever doing anything with him much. DAD/SON stuff.
    My Mother was leechy, and could not let go of my Dad and always needed to be nearby to him.
    Other times while living with them, I would constantly hear complaining from her. I don’t know what should be right or wrong, but any two that are married, I had thought it would be best leaving quarrels in the bedroom, but that didn’t happen in our family.
    all of us heard anytime when she is upset. And it never fealt good.
    I became very needy younger, with my Epilepsy I didn’t not have luxuries like others(driving). And anytime that would be asked to some to help me, all thought it was intrusive of their space and wanted me to leave them alone. Anyone, friends, siblings. sometimes harshness sounded from my parents.
    Most recently I had lost two jobs. No one to really console with, parents live nearby but never ask anything really. They don’t want to know, or they are scared to even ask.
    I can get defensive,when being told what to do. but when it is said this is how it should be done, rather than in a suggested way it feels like that way or the highway.
    I did find it was very good to have a dog for comfort whne troubling times would be. But that ended up being stopped. My Mother , as I recall, told me let me have your dog. It is best we take care of him in case anything bad happens. I didn’t have options like driving it to the vet if needed, i guess. But they didn’t want to even get to that point to see if there would be a problem.. Which didn’t give me any self confidence at all. So mostly I would not tell them about anything I did. Because of how I didn’t want to hear accusations that what i was doing was wrong.
    So I am at a stopping point now, not sure what to do. I am looking for groups to discuss things and be with. Depression, anxiety areas. But with my limited transportation. I sometimes don’t even want to look to see if there might be anything.
    I don’t give other people a chance. And have major trust issues from early on in life. I think alot of this is obvious and some just don’t want to ask because they know of how bad stuff might be.
    There is alot more, but at this time I am needing to find a way to get out of my depression state, but unsure to fully disclose this to my folks because of ramifications that may come up if they might not be understanding or not.

    Wrongway says:
    June 24, 2014 at 7:54 pm
    Hi Todd,
    You might just want to see what I have gone through. Some of it mirrors very closely. We can pm if you’d like on that forum. It just might help. I know the thread is really long, but just read the first post.

    Wrongway says:
    June 24, 2014 at 7:55 pm


    Arne says:
    June 25, 2014 at 5:23 pm
    You write that you hate yourself for what you’ve become. First, don’t hate yourself! You say you’ve forgiven others even though there are things that are hard to forget. Give yourself a lot of credit for that. Many people can’t make it that far. I can’t. Don’t beat yourself up over your current circumstances, and don’t see yourself as ‘at a stopping point’. Life goes on. I hope things take a turn for the better for you. Don’t give up.

    Lucy says:
    June 4, 2014 at 4:39 am
    I am 42 years old. I have no meaningful friends and rely on my husband and children for companionship. I have had a trying life: divorced parents at two years old, addicted step parent, clinically depressed other step parent, sexually abused as a child by more than one person, cheated on repeatedly etc, etc. …since my practical existence I have avoided close relationships because I am afraid of being hurt physically or emotionally, yet at the same time my soul yearns for just that: a meaningful relationship with a friend who wants nothing of me but to give and receive friendship. But because of my childhood upbringing, I find myself literally unable to be comfortable in a potential friend’s presence. In my own minds eye it’s because I am so starved for companionship that I try to make myself too perfect and end up sabotaging my efforts. The person likely see through me into the depressed soul that I am or is scared off by my awkwardness, because no matter how amiable I am, rarely a friendship develops. In addition, I am a stay at home mom and work from home, but the business I’m in does not alot for real interaction with people, my husband works six days a week, my teens are involved in extracurricular activities and friends, and though I connect with my toddler, I cannot expect the nurturing and support I need from a child. I’m supposed to be that for her, and I am. I’m a lonely stay at home mom who longs to connect with someone who can relate. My husband is great around others but prefers to stay home most of the time, however in the event that one of his co workers invites us over I feel excited and anxious all at once. In social situations I look forward to going but find once there I feel awkward and nothing comes to mind to say, especially to strangers. On top of that it makes me feel more of an outcast because generally everyone knows everyone, except for me and I find it extremely difficult if not impossible to insert myself into conversation. Small talk comes very difficult to me and it shows, my therapist says it’s because I’ve learned through experience to be so guarded my brain freezes when it comes to natural conversation. As Mo said, I censor myself. I’m always two steps in my head analyzing, when I should just be enjoying the moment. Easier said than done! I end up being perceived as stuck up, when I am anything but. I even find it difficult to open up on here, like I shouldn’t be bothering you good people.

    Erin says:
    June 6, 2014 at 7:11 pm
    Oh my gosh i cant believe you are telling my story! I’m also a SAHM of 3 and have woken up to realize i have no friends…i have spent all these years dedicating my life and energy to my sweet kids who are so much fun but are growing up and will be moving on soon. I will be left with nothing but incredible memories because while i was completely loving being a mom, i forgot how important it was to build relationships… The anxiety that came from all that just made me want to shut down. And I’m a nice looking, normal-seeming girl.. I have no idea how people see me but i find i am never really sought after, when it comes down to other women and friendships. I just shut down and enjoyed the love from my family…and loved my family bunches!
    But to wake up and realize how i havent built any kind of sweet, caring network of friends that i could share all the fun times with…its so painful and shameful. I have no one to share this with.
    I’d love to talk, to hear how we are in many ways so much alike in our pain is really surprising, because i feel so alone in this.

    Ma says:
    June 7, 2014 at 5:44 am
    I recommend brene brown to you both. She’s taught me how to live wholeheartedly. Please try her. It changed my life and relationships.


    Dimitris says:
    June 15, 2014 at 8:07 pm
    Don’t give up and don’t feel you are over. These things happen to everyone. These things don’t discriminate against age or sex. Think of it. I’m a 25 years old man who has no one because do you know something? People make me mad. I can’t stand people and their strange weather attitude I just can’t. I’m very conscious about my choices and I found my inner truth. No friends in my life and that’s ok. Everyone that passed from my life was just too shallow. No meaningful connection, even my 17 years best friend ended up to wanting me as company only when her best friend was absent or when she was bored. NO. That’s a no no. Either good friends that love you every time of the day or no friends at all. The ones that need you when they are bored or want something can go right down to hell for me. Only few people worth for me. My future cat my sister and my mother. Love from Greece and don’t make negative thoughts. Life is wonderful for all and happiness is moments

    RG says:
    June 17, 2014 at 8:04 am
    I am sitting here crying reading yours and Lucy’s words. I feel the exact same way. I am so despaired I don’t know how to even function anymore. I have made my kids my life and now all of them have grown up and have to move on with their own lives. I feel like I am friendly and try to make friends, but every time I make a friend and it seems like we are going to be good friends something happens and I either lose them all together or we drift apart. I am at a point now to where I feel like I have no one to talk to and nobody reaches out to me. I really am not sure what it is about me that turns people off. I try to be friendly and nice. I am not overly funny though and I guess I can be a bit boring.

    Lucy says:
    June 20, 2014 at 1:13 pm
    I am so sorry that I am replying a couple of weeks after you posted your reply. I was away with my family. I am excited to hear that someone else shares my experience! It helps me feel connected to life to know that others are going through the same thing…and that’s a positive thing! I would love to talk too. I’m new to this website and not sure how connecting outside of it works.

    Grace says:
    June 15, 2014 at 2:07 pm
    I also could have written the above post. I have 2 tweens and a toddler. My husband works a lot and despite trying and trying – room mom, PTA mom…volunteer, volunteer…smile…etc, I have no friends. I drive my kids to activities and playdates but have never received an invitation for a cup of coffee. I’ve pretty given up. I am not very pushy. My kids school year just ended and all the moms who said they would email me to let me know what camps their kids were in, well they didn’t.
    I sent out 3 emails. One emailed back and she actually emailed me a few times as I was getting more details on what her daughter was doing. The other 2 never contacted me. I am trying though as I used to just not bother if they never contacted me. I realize the road goes both way but it does make me sad that, if I didn’t really work at it, they would never bother.
    One of the camps, 4 classmates of my daughter’s, are in. They probably contacted each other.
    I really don’t get it. I did sign up my daughter for camps based on this one mother who contacted me. The other thing is, I will probably bring my daughter to these camps and see that the other moms are all carpooling. This has happened before.
    I am trying to be upbeat about this. I mean I don’t want to think/assume it’s me.
    I am going to double up my efforts but I realize I need to also try to branch out.
    There are moms who regularly pick up each other’s kids and go out for coffee, I know because I see it. I often see moms going for walks together and taking gym classes together. I always go to the gym alone and for walks alone.
    I get that cliques were formed and they don’t want anyone new or they just don’t want me but I hope there are other moms who feel the same as me and maybe I can find them.
    I try to say the right things, don’t brag about my kids, ask them about their kids…but nada.
    You do ask yourself maybe it’s me, maybe there is something wrong with me. It’s hard because then I will go through a period where I just avoid people.
    I sustained a brain injury when I was 15 and was recently diagnosed with post-traumatic inattentive ADHD as a result of that injury. The doctor put me on meds about one month ago and now I see I really couldn’t focus on people, on anything.
    So now I am trying to pick up the pieces but part of me fears I am too late. I mean I notice I make eye contact now and answer people faster than I used to. Social situations don’t fill with with fear.
    The good thing that comes from being a social outcast is I have had time to focus on my kids. They have benefited. Some moms have said to me “how do yu do it?” because my kids really excel. I can’t tell them that it’s probably because I am there, all the time, because I have nothing else to do.
    My worry now, as my kids are becoming teens, is will they realize I have no friends? that mom’s a loser?
    I had lots of friends in high school, but that was before my accident and brain injury. So they were my friends after until I moved away to go to college.
    I realize how much, well it’s really frontal lobe damage which is what they say causes ADHD, affected my life for years. Never had many close friends after high school.
    The meds have helped me realize why I don’t have much of a social life. They’ve also made me see things more clearer and I feel I can sense people’s rejection more strongly now although the difference is, it doesn’t bother me as much.
    Maybe that’s key, they want it to bother you. I used to shuffle out of school events quickly because I felt so much rejection. On these meds, I stay and I really don’t care. In fact, the last school event, I never acknowledged the moms who tried to give me that non-accepting look.
    You are not alone in your feelings. I wish you luck.

    erin says:
    June 17, 2014 at 12:06 pm
    Grace, RG, Lucy…reading your posts makes me alternately have hope and despair more. I have hope because I see I am not alone. Others are telling my story. But then you are all inaccessible. It feels bittersweet to then only be able to chat on a public forum instead of be able to ring up and say, “hey girl, I know what you are going through, how’s your day going? Hey! LETS DO COFFEE!” :)
    I have Brene Brown’s book, will actually pull it out and re-read it…its true about being vulnerable. its just so hard when everyone else seems to be functioning so “normally”…I want to find a place where my “peeps” are, “peeps” who share from their heart like you all have.
    Thank you. For being real. Stay in touch!

    Lucy says:
    June 20, 2014 at 1:25 pm
    Erin, Grace and RG,
    Reading your responses has given me hope that there are good, honest and giving people out there. And I would invite any of you for a cup of coffee right now if you were living in my vicinity. Just knowing that there is acceptance and non judgement here on this site has lightened my heart. I agree with Erin, let’s stay in touch!

    Todd says:
    June 24, 2014 at 6:53 pm
    Hi Lucy,
    I can totally relate to some things mentioned. I also do try to perfect in everything I do. That is my way to make sure everything will be alright, so I don’t end up hearing things from others when they get pissed off or angry at me.
    In this politically correct world we may be in. The media and other things always frown upon things when people do things wrong, or at least show how that was wrong, or why did somebody do that. And it is what we see mostly being talked about.
    In a way, the world is not accepting anything wrong or anybody making mistakes either.

    melany says:
    May 20, 2014 at 9:54 am
    I have so many issues within myself that I struggle with everyday I’m so lonely and depressed I feel like nobody gets me just judge me me and my mother don’t get along at all she tells me I had depression once and I got myself out I have years of depression and I tried doing it a alone but I can’t I just can’t I don’t know who I am I can’t find myself I lie to myself I do things without thinking I’m just a mess sometimes I wish I was sleeping And that I dont wake up but then I think of my kids and it changes my mind but it’s a struggle I’m fighting for my sanity for my kids how can I do it when sometimes I just can’t get myself up off the bed I push people away but it’s not like they care anyways I wish I had a different life I wish I was a different person I have no friends basically no family my mom and sisters don’t get me I’ve always been an outcast abandoned by my father it sucks having a step father who treats you different I’m alone in the world.

    J says:
    May 8, 2014 at 1:34 am
    Im currently 23… i just read what ive been unable to write myself or explain to anyone else.
    I shut myself off from the world, afraid of the inevitable hurt.
    Lets see, I dont quite remember when the depression started or when i realized that was what i was experiencing, I wouldnt say i had a rough life exactly, i do live in a privileged country, always had food on the table, and enough people around to give me love, so my stories always feel so over worked and unrealistic. My dad always had alot of anger issues and abuse issues and im sure not having it easy himself as a child played a part in how he raised me, he was mean, unkind, abusive physically and mentally and manipulative.. you name it and he was that nightmare for me and my mother and some of my other siblings. We all put up with it, home business stayed at home and wasnt mean to be talked about with anyone else, it was the rule, or else i would get taken away so things always progressed, nothing got better… luckily i had a few family members who gave me love unconditonally, and cherished me always. but still that abuse towards everyone in the family progressed, than when i was roughly 12, both my parents started to use hard drugs, became addicted, watched my family crumble due to crack addiction, seen alot of crap, had alot of hatred, at 15 dad uses me to sleep with my childhood best friend behind my back (they turned me into an alcoholic so i would pass out and let them be together) and they start dating, i find out by catching them in the act sexually….i have to tell my pregnant mother that my father and friend are having an affair… they didnt last long once my so called bestie got what she wanted from him.
    ill never forgive myself for that one.
    parents quit drugs 5 years ago, mom changes back into my best friend, dad still a fat loser crackhead with anger and abuse issues, i blame him for everything wrong in my life… if only i had been shown how to be properly loved and how to give love.
    soo the family that was there for me, through thick and thin… sadly all passed away in the last 5 years, first my great uncle, than great grandma, than my uncle wayne, than my great aunt (her husband, her mother, her son, lost her leg ) just wanted to die, than she passed away, than my grandma (who lost her leg when i was 12) lost her other leg and her mother and sister and nephew and she was the last one left and she sadly contracted a virus from the hospital and her leg wouldnt heal and got infected and she also passed away, so i lost everything i knew and i even lost my religon… i gave up on any idea of heaven or god or the bible… i just became a closed off agnostic.
    anyways im 23 and i enjoy being inside, im afraid of people i dont know or large crowds, ive been in a serious relationship for 5 years with a great person, who sadly i dont treat correctly.. :( im bringing him down, im bringing me down… i have no friends at all, not even 1… i live across country from any family, in a province where i dont speak the language. so much more stuff but i cant even figure out where i would start. thanks for being descriptive and making me feel like im not the only person who feels like this.

    melany says:
    May 20, 2014 at 9:42 am
    I feel just like you I feel like I just don’t belong most pol judge me they just hate me I even hate myself I’m 25 I have kids they are all I have I don’t have a big family only my mom and 2 sisters I’m married even tho my husband abandoned us he plays with my emotions because he can’t fix himself my mom and me can’t get along for the life of God I feel lost like I just don’t know myself can’t find myself my father abandoned me I’m a mess it’s a long story behind all I feel but your not alone I know it’s hard but don’t push that one person you have by your side unlike me you have a great person me I have my kids and they are too little to understand I feel alone. Try and be happy. Your partner is hope.

    lou says:
    June 11, 2014 at 1:27 pm
    I came across this discussion after yet again Googling ‘depression’. Why I do this I have no idea, as if I expect the answer & cure to be amongst the search results…alas, it never is ofc. I’m sure the real answer would be found in a therapist or having a talk with those that have hurt me, but that’s on the same scale as walking into a fire – I would never ever do it. So here I am, locked in my depression. I thought I had everything, an ambition & career in mind & a partner who loves the bones of me. But it’s nothing, it all means nothing when you have a mental illness (albeit self-diagnosed) cause the depression stops you from doing everything & I mean everything. My only friend is my boyfriend & even that is starting to feel like a nightmare, we don’t have sex anymore & I feel like my days are filled with him trying to discuss this with me. It’s driving me crackers. His reply all the time; ‘go see someone, go see a Doctor’ sounds so so easy doesn’t it, little does he know just how thick the wall is I’ve built around myself.

    Tonya says:
    March 10, 2014 at 12:07 pm
    I am almost 39 yrs old. I have suffered with the depression for as long as I can remember.At 14 and puberty I was tested for a heart condition bc I was having repeat episodes of chest pain and racing heart. It was anxiety. My home life had been pretty bad with my parents splitting apart when I was 2 and moving to a whole other State was hard on my mother to be a single Mom raising to children. We were poor and all my Mom could do was try to put a father in our lives. Rhat led to man hunting. Alchoholic abusive men with lots of baggage and emotional problems. I was born over 2 months early so I was already the girl that got labeled slow learner,stupid and retard. Sorry, to use those words. That is just how it was. I had a few friends through church. I would intercept the New kids at school that stood alone bc I mostly knew that feeling. They would friend me for awhile until someone better came along.
    I grew up with feelings of inadequacy. Nothing was ever going to be good enough for everyone else around me. So, why should it be for me attitude. And so, that set the mood to how the rest of my life would be. I let a few wounded people in close enough to see and understand my darkness but they always betrayed me. Either by socially humiliating me by telling my secrets and laughing about them behind my back.. Or just plain hanging around to take my boyfriend or later husband for themselves. I have felt a sence of distrust in women that makes it awkward for me to fit in.
    I am also a quarter Native American. People can be very judgemental about race too. I found that out. I am a beautiful lady though. That has never been an issue but with all of the abuse in my life, mental, physical,emotional, molested at 10 by an Uncle, raped when I was 19. Institutionalized a couple of times. Once for trying to commit suicide, drug abuse when I was 18-20, alchohol abuse from then until about 6 yrs ago. I know I have isolated myself from fear of hurt to my children from others, fear of rejection, fear of being laughed at ans judged by my mental diagnosis, by my past with drugs and alchohol. I am so lonely but I keep myself alone. I am myself’s worst caretaker living with no friends. A wife that’s husband travels so, I stay home to manage the home alone. I wish the best for everyone on here wirt these same struggles. I hope you find inside what you are looking for. Just pray that I do as well..

    woman says:
    April 13, 2014 at 1:05 am
    I feel the same way. Women gossip a lot and It hurts me when people bring up my past and try to bring me back down when I’m trying to move on to a better place in my life. The worst is when they do it at work, I feel like I have no choice but to be an outcast.

    KG says:
    October 26, 2013 at 3:21 pm
    This phenomenon of depressed people losing all their friends reminds me of a story my depressed (maybe ex-) girlfriend told me. When she was 30, she blew out her knee when in a sporting accident, and wound up in the hospital for a week. During that time, she says, she had a total of two (unwanted) visitors, both of whom (she says) were there for romantic reasons (married guy who was interested, gay woman who was interested). Her family (who lived in the area) didn’t show up. No other friends.
    I thought that was a very sad story, and kind of hard to fathom. I know her family, and they are good, caring, people. She’d been a popular girl in her youth. She seemed warm and wonderful to me. How did she wind up in the hospital alone? Well, knowing now (though I didn’t then) that she’s a depressive (who has now cut me ceremoniously out of her life) I can see how she might have found herself in that situation.
    She claims that at that point, she looked at her life and realized that things weren’t what she wanted, and she needed a change. And she soon changed her career dramatically. But I don’t believe she saw that hospital stay as the culmination of depression. She’s probably pushed everyone who tried to care away, just as I’ve seen her do with me.
    Very sad.

    Ken says:
    July 6, 2013 at 11:34 pm
    I’ve always been introverted (except for a few years in college and then only when I was under the influence :-) and have never had more than a handful of friends. When I was in high school, there was only one friend I hung out with outside of school. I work at home (and have for about 20 years) so I don’t even have the forced socialization of an office milieu. So depression hasn’t really changed that aspect of my life very much but it has amplified it. When I do go out socially, I usually hang back. My wife is extremely gregarious and is well-known in town so she sees people she knows everywhere we go. I usually try to stay out of site while she makes the rounds in order to avoid as many introductions as possible. I can sometimes manage to get involved in conversations and there are some topics that automatically draw me in. And in those times I can forget about my depression for a bit and feel almost normal. But then I’ll remember and start to withdraw and want out. I realize that being around people is good for me but when I’m home I don’t want to be around people. When I’m getting ready to go out it’s always so much trouble to get ready. I can’t find clothes to wear and I feel unattractive and I just want to get back in bed. I know that socialization helps my mood (most of the time) and yet it’s extremely difficult to muster the energy to actually do it. I never talk to anyone (except my therapist) about my depression – I don’t have that kind of relationship with anyone. It’s very isolating. Most of the time I don’t realize how isolating that really is. I’m trying to go online more to find kindred souls I feel like no one wants to hear my sad story and I shouldn’t be whining so much. I’m also trying to blog about my depression but, again, I feel like a whiner when I really talk about it. Anyway, I totally understand the feeling of no friends and no life.

    Lili says:
    July 8, 2013 at 2:17 pm
    Hi Ken,
    Please do not feel like you are a whiner, ofcause you cant help it, but really you are going through an illness that you have no control of. It is ok to talk about your pain just like every other illnesses. Also ofcause there’s that stigma about men dont want to talk about their feelings as it’s percieved as a weakness. My partner never talk about his feelings, untill the day he couldnt contain his depression anymore, then it came flooding out like a broken dam. I was comepletely in shock and over whelmed by the things he said (and the nonsense blames). If only he talked, and shared with me what was really going on in his head all those month….
    He also have no friends, hates going out, but this only contributed to his depression. He feel more alone than ever. Ken i sincerely hope you open up people around you. It will let you see who are the ‘real’ friends, that’s willing to stick by you, or the ones who flee at the mere mentioning of a mental/mood disorder. Having friends dosnt mean you need to be the talk of the town, it just means you should have a couple of really close, honest mates that can be there to support you without any judgements.
    Online is a good way to start, as its less confrontational, you can atleast build up your confidence and become comfortable at sharing about depression or just problems in life in general. Because you can never be sure what can trigger an episode of depression.
    Best of luck to you Ken!

    Ken says:
    July 10, 2013 at 4:08 pm
    Thank you very much, Lili. I appreciate your word of encouragement :-)

    gandox says:
    July 5, 2013 at 12:05 pm
    All my friends are gone. Have been for many years. I have tried making new ones but I always perceive them to slight me,so I reject their intentions and ideas and further Isolate myself. I do this and look back at it and say to myself “did I do that on purpose or am I just that bad of a human being? ” That only furthers the cycle. When someone gets too close to me I will self destruct the encounter and force them away.
    I wasn’t always like this. Once I was happily married and raising 2 children. I had a few friends,more along the lines of acquaintances. Then about 12 years ago we bought a house with a basement. That is now where I most days with the door closed and only the computer and xbox to keep me company. My wife brings me food and we communicate but I push her away to. I can tell her anything but I am so negative that a meaningful conversation is not really possible.
    I do get up everyday and go to work and interact with the people at work but that too is strained. If not for my skills I would be let go for being a D-bag (yes,I am THAT guy). Although I do try so hard to restrain myself from spewing my pain and anguish upon them but unfortunately some of it slips out.
    I do return home and settle into my basement world and beat myself up for the way I acted and for the person I am then,I play on the xbox and because the anonymous nature of the interwebs I spew my negativity further alienating myself online. I could easily cut that part of my life out but it is almost like I need to do it.then I beat myself up for doing it…then I do it again.
    I do pay the bills and I do fix the house when it needs it and I tend to the vehicles. When those minor interruptions to my insanity happen I pat myself on the back and tell myself “see, that’s normal you’r not really that bad” but as soon as I am not needed I return to my the world I have created in my mind and beat myself up.
    I know exactly the reasons for my isolation but fail to stop it I am not suicidal although, laying down and dying wouldn’t bother me. I am a Barker not a Biter which means I talk tough but not really ever hurt anyone physically,definitely verbally though.
    I hurt inside and outside. I push everyone away. How do I stop ? I so want to get back to “normalcy” I want too feel good again. I reject most new ideas so how do I know which one to accept ? How do know whom to accept? Maybe I am that one person there is no hope for.
    Look how I am rambling and have devolved into into my “woe is me” vitriol.
    Bah, useless, but I throw it out there and maybe someone else has the same life.I don’t want pity I really just want to know if I am alone or not. Today I was in the mood to vent. I’ll check back and vomit more rantings and self loathing another day.

    invisibleplease says:
    July 8, 2013 at 4:09 pm
    You sound like you could be my father. He has lived in his “room” since I was a young teenager. He hated my choice of a spouse and did not walk me down the aisle nor even attend my wedding. He still dislikes my husband and never comes to my house, nor my husband to his home. I hardly ever see my father even though he lives 30 miles away. He seems to be nice to my children when they visit overnight. I feel like he cares only about himself. But it is from him that I have inherited my own bouts of depression. I don’t want to be like him. It is sad to realize that he might be lonely with no way out of his darkness.
    I have been studying the health deficiencies possibly associated with depression. Right now I am trying a natural product to help the adrenal system. This product has taken the heavy feeling of hopelessness away. I am happy most of the day and I am nice to those around me. Since using this dietary supplement, I have been able to step back and realize that I am a good person with a disease that can be healed.

    invisibleplease says:
    July 2, 2013 at 7:33 am
    I related to your article. I have never had more than one friend at a time. I currently have zero friends. I close out my spouse because I feel guilty for feeling depressed. We argue a lot when I’m depressed. I’m scared I’ll be viewed as pathetic if my spouse knew about my depression (taking it personal that he is the reason when that’s not true, he deserves better than me). I’ve tried to let my spouse know a few times that I need help, but nothing happens. I’m really scared my children will not have friends because of me. Some days I crave friends, other days I am happy that I don’t have the pressure of being perfect in their eyes. I talk so, so much when I meet new people or meet up with people I know. I am so embarrassed afterward and get really upset with myself for being this way. My dad and older brother were depressed… to the point of suicide, but I have always viewed myself as better than that and in control of my life. I really have a great life and maybe it’s not depression but I’m rather a lazy, pathetic person.

    Cathi says:
    May 23, 2013 at 10:01 am
    This is my first visit to your site, found through a search for ‘accepting depression’. Wow! What a similar set of thoughts run through my mind almost daily.
    Yesterday walking home from the commute bus stop my thoughts and feelings rang a familiar theme and reached a new level of almost apathy.
    Feeling invisible, not sensing anyone with whom I can share the real feelings and thoughts I live with – rather needing to be the one who listens and helps others solve their issues both at home and at work.
    Accepting (sadly ) that there most likely won’t ever be anyone there for me, and at the same time beginning to realize that approaching life this way must create barriers between myself and others that prevents relationships from beginning or continuing. After all, who wants to be real about the loneliness, depression and isolation?
    Not sure what to do about it, feeling a growing sense of anxiety about the outcome. About this time my guilt kicks in as a single mother of an almost 21 yr old who also suffers from anxiety and depression. Did she learn it by living with me? What can I do to help her move through and past it?
    I’ve been noticing the commonality of my relationships with most of those in my life, the shallowness and limited exchange of real life. I’m not sure if my sense that the common factor and therefore, cause is me is true or not. How do you verify that with others?
    Add to this my continued dis-ease and unhappiness with my immediate and extended family. I made the conscious choice to live next door to our mother to help with her care in her later years (she’s 85), while my brother lives a few hours away and is clearly her favorite and chosen one to go to for assistance. My role seems to be to wait in the wings until asked, don’t be proactive when I notice areas she needs help with, and accept not being included in discussions. Ugh – not sure what the point of being here is.
    John’s thoughts about being in relationships and the interaction of depression, anxiety and relationships ring a familiar tune with my experiences.

    Alex Kamonohash says:
    May 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm
    I’ve had great difficulty making friends (or finding satisfying romantic relationships) all my life. I’ve pretty much lived my entire life, since early childhood, without friends, or with just one, until they moved away. (I currently have one very good friend who lives in another part of the country.) I definitely lacked social skills in my youth and was very shy. That is not at all the case now. I have well-developed social skills. I’m a very pleasant person- kind, friendly, interesting, and a good listener. It’s not at all difficult for me to find people who are happy to be my friend (or girlfriend). Rather, the problem is that I almost never find the relationship satisfying.
    What’s almost always missing is CHEMISTRY. Do a Google search for “chemistry” and “love” and you’ll get thousands of hits, but zero for “chemistry” and “friendship.” Yet chemistry is as essential for friendship as for love. I’m different from other people in profound ways- so different that they can usually only see a small part of who and what I am. I find myself feeling deeply, profoundly lonely when I’m out with a group of people and realize that I have nothing in common with any them, and that they don’t even know who I am. Again and again throughout my life I’ve ended up choosing to be alone because, ironically, that feels significantly less painful and lonely.

    Maria says:
    February 3, 2013 at 8:33 am
    Thank everyone for sharing their emotions & stories .I have been dealing with depression for over 8 years. all my friends have gone away, they want nothing to do with me anymore.I kept myself distance locked up in my house waiting on the phone call from a friend yet also fearing the call would would come which it would ,then fear of rejection. I was unable to explain to my friends what was going on. My friends would just think I didn’t care about them .I always wanted to join in with my friends however when it came time to get ready to go meet them .I would freeze. I recently turned 40 , my thirties were very hard. I though the worse was behind me. Now turning 40…I am alone with no friends and my mother & father are no help. I was raised with no encouragement, I was always told I was a loser. I am still single with no children.Where do I start ? I believe it is very important to have friends .I have tried to make amends with past friend however they see me for my past when all I want to do is show them a different me. I’ll pretend to be happy and that all is going good. I was always the friend who listened and did everything for my friends. I was always there for them all.Back then I didn’t take of my feeling or my depression I would just listen to all of their issues in their lives.I did pull back on going out but that it. Was that so bad to justify for these friend to no longer take my calls and no longer want my friendship? I’ve been ostracized, I become the outcast. So in that said my depression as worsen. What’s next? If anyone had some words of encouragement I will be so grateful

    John W says:
    February 6, 2013 at 4:06 pm
    If your friends won’t listen to you then they weren’t your friends to begin with. Keep your chin up. Join a civic group? What do you like to do outside of work? Can that activity be shared outside in a group? My trouble growing up was I was so centered on myself; I have a tough time keeping a conversation going. I realized people like to talk about themselves. So I learned to have people open up. You already have the hard part down. **Listening**. Someone told me once, “You have 2 ears and 1 mouth. Use them proportionately. “
    I know what is like to believe that you’re a loser after being told many years that comment. I got mad. That originally gave me the strength to do something. Unfortunately that validated that comment and I became resentful. The best thing is to not accept the comment and feel sorry for the person who is saying those mean comments. Most people say those comments because they are inadequate themselves. So keep your chin up. Don’t listen to any of those horrible comments. You’re worth finding good friends. If you feel down, well I think it is time to learn how to stand up. What do you think? I’ll stand with you, okay? :-)

    Maria says:
    February 7, 2013 at 7:56 am
    Thank you John for your words of encouragement & for taking your time to respond. I recently lost my job .Also yesterday who I thought was my best friend told me that her husband brought it to her attention that what other single friends of her hangs out like I would. Honestly I would see her maybe once ever other week on a Friday night. For a friendship that was over 15 years and after 5 of those years she was cheating on her husband with several men. I was the one who encourage her to stay with her husband , I never judged her ever. SO to now be told that her & her husband feel that I was getting my happiness threw their family and she is now happy with her husband after he purchased a new home , and new horses and many other things for her. I was shocked. Once again another friendship gone. I have enjoyed so much being outside riding horses, just being out East on the property & being on a boat fishing…..I keep reading what you typed” Its time to learn how to stand up” I hear it & know it. What did I do in my life that it has come to this?

    John W says:
    February 9, 2013 at 6:00 pm
    I don’t believe in fate. I was partly responsible for the condition I am in. I have to take my life into my own hands and make it better. Many people find the forum helpful as many of us visit it daily. Maybe you can come and see yourself. Maybe there is a way here for you to stand up on your own without help?


    John W says:
    February 9, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    By the way…my screen name is Wrong way. (long story to that name)

    Susan says:
    February 11, 2013 at 8:45 pm
    Darling Maria,
    I, too, can’t believe how poorly some of my friends have treated me. I’ve come to wonder if perhaps I give up on friendships (and jobs, hair products, and knitting projects) too easily. I have nothing left to lose so I am going to bully my way through this wall. My goal is to contact one person a day that I don’t see regularly. Anyone with whom I’ve ever had fun is fair game – all the way back to the womb or first grade. Whether we ended through a fight or just drifted apart, I’m going to call them or e-mail them. I won’t talk about the bad, just listen to them. I dread what may happen, but I’m going to do it anyway.
    I challenge you to join me. What’s the worst that happen? We are already friendless and hate ourselves. We are already working souless jobs. Next year I may be living in a cardboard box and shouting obscenities to passerbyers. Today I can live without fear of rejection because it just doesn’t matter anymore.

    Mandy says:
    December 29, 2012 at 7:11 pm
    Depressed: No Friends, No Life
    I am now in the recovery process of depression. Now that I’m “waking up” I look around and find that not many of my friends have stayed around, which makes me down, causing a cycle of depressed moods. I lost a really good friend partly because of depression, and another friend either has excesses not to hang out with me or says very little to me. It sucks! I have tried to reach out to one of them with no luck, and when it comes to Christmas parties at their house I wanted to be invisible; even at work I feel that depression has hurt the relationships I have there. its a cycle that is hard to stop. I try to get out and reinvent myself but when I do people just look at me and see the depressed me. I try to fight it off and some days I’m good but other days its much much harder, starting the cycle again. Keeping strong in the recovery process is hard but the more I practice being strong, the easier it is to be strong!

    Lisa says:
    January 27, 2013 at 6:00 am
    Hello Mandy – You sound just like me. It gives me encouragement that you feel you are getting stronger. I’m trying too. I lost my job in March and I am also menopausal which causes more depressed episodes. I just got a new job as a contractor but I’m getting depressed again. Stress brings it on and I just want to die all the time. I want to give away everything I used to love but I have my animals and they are keeping me alive.

    Mandy says:
    January 29, 2013 at 3:30 pm
    Lisa; Keep your head up. What I have been doing lately is making myself do something everyday. It may be small or big depending where I am at. some days all I can do is go for a 5 min walk, or if Im up I will go for a walk and do what I love (bake)! If its a struggle to do that one thing then I done let myself get down and when I catch myself then I don’t get mad, its just a day. I give myself a reward after doing what I don’t want to do (usually laying on the sofa without guilt). I tried something amazing yesterday and even though I was sceptical I think it will work. I joined a meditation class. It doesn’t hurt to go just once to try something and when you are in that moment you feel pretty great. Keep working hard and take it day by day, hour by hour, or minute by minute. Depression sucks but don’t let it get you down fight it. I’s fighting the good fight:)

    John W says:
    November 5, 2012 at 7:56 am
    Thank you for keeping this blog up. I have been dealing with some form of depression over that last 25 years of my life. Only within the last 6 months did I recognize my illness, and asked for help. I was literally in such a depressed state that everything bothered me including waking up. I got help from
    1. Primary Physician
    2. Therapist
    3. Psychiatrist
    4. Writing
    My primary physician made sure my body was at the optimal working condition. She had found my Vitamin d levels were so low that it was almost non-existent. I met up with several therapists, and I found one that suited my needs. My psychiatrist helped maintain my medications regarding my depression. I originally started writing to let some of my uncensored feelings out. I have trouble expressing myself in ties of duress or stress. Writing helped me gain some perspective, but my depression will need all four components working together in tandem for me to be a functioning person.
    I finally have a job that I like, and am trying to stay positive. There have been times where waves of sadness will sweep over me. It is quite a scary feeling. I think it has only happened once at work for 5 minutes, but I was crying profusely because of this sadness. Today I deal with depression, but each day that I work on this, is one step closer to me feeling independent and happy.
    I want to share with everyone at how my depression has shaped who I am today. I think much of depression stems from the combination of my upbringing and my environmental circumstances. My parents emigrated from another country fleeing from war. They always mentioned their strife in achieving in this country. This in combination with some momentary physical abuse from my dad I think sparked the initial depression. My depression fully blossomed in high school. I had really low self esteem and felt socially awkward.
    I hit rock bottom a year ago. I was 40 and I had lost my job 8 months ago. I was on the verge on going past due on my payments, and finally had to stand up for myself. My wife had seen the proverbial ‘emotional dive off the cliff’ and all I wanted to do was sleep and cry quietly. I knew this wasn’t the normal “me,” so I sought professional help against my normal instinct.
    Since then, I have been able to get a job I like, improve my situation one day at a time. I think the most profound change in my life was to create my own happiness. I think through my parent’s upbringing, I learned that my happiness was going to be defined by my pains in life. While I know it is not realistic to go through life without pain or sadness, I was looking for more pain and suffering to help define my happiness. I don’t know if that makes any sense. I would seek out difficult situations, and in some cases, unreasonable situations to experience more discomfort. I found sadness, anger and pain more familiar than happiness. If found after time, that I forgot what being happy was like. I never realized I shut everything that was enjoyable in life. I hope this choppy post helps someone. Depression is an everyday fight for me. I am glad to experience happiness once again. Stay true to yourself.

    Lisa says:
    January 27, 2013 at 6:10 am
    Thank you for posting this, I found it to be very helpful. I too have a difficult time allowing myself to be happy and instead of finding things that make me laugh I unintentionally seek things that cause misery. I am still working on it but it’s really hard. Today I woke up and talked to God and asked Him to just take my life. I told Him I never ask Him for anything, I don’t ask for a husband (because nobody would want me), I told Him I don’t ask anymore to be cured because if He wanted to He would have since I have been suffering from depression since kindergarden. I am now 46 and things have never gotten better no matter how hard I try (meds, doctors, exercise, diet, friends, job, etc.,) I want to give up but have a little dog and 4 cats and they are keeping me here. I really hate living, I want to give away all the things that used to bring some joy to me but I still feel empty inside. Your post gave me some inspiration and encouragement. I believe I need to start focusing on the things that have the potential to make me happy instead of looking for things that are a comfort zone of bewilderment and disappointment leading to depression. Thank you!!

    John W says:
    January 31, 2013 at 10:28 pm
    I’m glad you found my post helpful. below are some tips which I found helpful in getting myself out of the mental fog of depression.
    I have 3 people working on this for me.:
    1. Primary care physician:
    a. He has made sure that my overall health is in good condition.
    b. He is helping me lose some of the weight I had gained (50lbs gained= 3.57 stone)
    i. Right now I have lost 30lbs =2.14stone; 3 inches off my waist = 7.62cm
    c. My vitamin D levels were nearly nonexistent. This is a contributing factor in my depression and had to be monitored to ensure proper energy levels
    d. Thyroid is in good working condition .

    2. Qualified Therapist
    a. She has allowed me to work through some of my emotional issues
    i. Emotional baggage from childhood
    ii. How to effectively engage the world
    iii. What are my emotional triggers and what I can do to control them
    iv. How to move forward and be aware of consequences of each action
    v. How to move past ‘Analysis Paralysis’ (I love to figure things out and how they work. Unfortunately it prevents me from solving problems efficiently.)
    b. Allow me to choose the direction of therapy. I n the beginning I had to choose another therapist because I was not comfortable with her. After 4 session with my current therapist I did not Feel any better. I challenged her on this by asking what direction she was planning on this therapy, because I did not feel any better. She took notes of my comments. At my workplace, I use a coaching to behavior method style of management. In the beginning I was being coached to my feelings. I found it most annoying, and I told her to stop coaching me to my feelings. She stopped and asked which method to use. I didn’t know that there were different methods. I told her to choose something else. She has changed since then , and has set emotional goals for me with estmated time frames. If your therapist cannot give you a time frame or goals, find another one!

    3. World renown Psychiatrist ( my wife thinks he’s an idiot)
    a. He monitors my medication.

    b. That’s why I keep a journal. 1st three months I was still in a deep mental fog. The danger of not keeping a log is as follows: Example
    i. You feel crappy 29 out of 35 days
    ii. On the day you see the doctor about your medication; and you have a “Good” day
    1. He asks you, “How are you feeling?”
    2. You answer ” I feel fine.”
    iii. In reality you feel crappy 29 out of 35 days.
    iv. Medication can take up to 6 weeks to take effect.
    v. Mood and behavior diagnosis is incorrect, and time is wasted

    c. 1st 3 months of log record mood and feeling 3 times a day. Morning, mid day, dinner time. Please note any significant event that may trigger mood or feeling. (if someone died, then no amount of medication except zombification will stop the pain)

    d. Beginning month 4 record mood and feelings once a day.
    Now you have
    · an accurate log of your mood, feelings with times and dates
    · a plan to stay healthy so your body is not inhibiting your recovery
    · A therapist who can give you mental tools to handle and face life situations as they arise
    Can you tell I like having a plan? A failure to plan is a plan to fail.

    John W says:
    January 31, 2013 at 10:33 pm
    Sorry Lisa, I read the post below and I thought your name was Laura. Please forgive me.
    I also found a website of people who either suffer from depression or people affected by ones who are depressed. I think they’ve given more advice and therapy on a daily basis.


    Laura says:
    October 20, 2012 at 10:30 am
    Hi, John
    Thank you for your reply. You’re absolutely right, but, unfortunately, I didn’t find a therapist or a counselor, because in my country they are rare, expensive( I suppose there are many sessions) and it is quite hard to find a good therapist, because I’d rather somebody recommended me one.
    From now on, I will try to have a positive characterization of my self work because I can no longer continue with this stupid depression. It is an awful feeling, it basically destroys my ‘self’, my inner beauty and my way of being. I am not going to allow the negative thoughts/feelings to hug me to their heart. I will live the present moment, I will try to feel good in my inner self and stop being so hard on me. I’ll just make them my principles.
    Nevertheless, there will be moments when I will feel down and everything will seem to turn upside down. I am conscious of that. And in those very moments it will be quite difficult to me to keep my balance . Those moments are very critical for me and nothing seems to take me out of that dark mood.
    Thank you very much for your pieces of advice. I am very grateful to you. It is curious that whenever I feel down, I need to talk to someone so much and let loose my feelings. After that I feel better as I am now.
    I will keep you in touch with the progress I am making and its faults.
    Thank you.

    laura says:
    October 11, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    I think I have come across my real problems due to Storied Mind. Thank you.
    I do not have close friends at all and I tend not to socialize with people. I have prejudices. I have read a lot of books which changed my way of thinking. Definetely that is not good. I have realised that, but I never thought it would affect my way of being so much, but it does, it really does. I have created my own world which tends to destroy me.
    I have never tried to discuss this problem with anyone. Not even to my boyfriend for fear he would disconsider me.I leave the people I meet the impression that I am normal, but inside me there is a hunting stormwind which makes me feel inferior in front of them, sometimes I can hardly find my words when I try to express myself. Apart from all these, I also tend “to project my own shame into people’s minds”. That’s horrible because people do not take any personal interest in me. But I give myself away in front of them.
    It might sound weird but I do not suffer, I do not cry, I am not consumed by all these, but still I’m conscious that I don’t have any close friends. I am still going to school but it seems that i “suceed” in keeping the others away from me.
    I want to improve my confidence but I do not know how…

    John Folk-Williams says:
    October 14, 2012 at 10:51 am
    Hi, Laura -
    I can relate so well to your description of a stormwind inside that makes you feel inferior – that’s such a common part of depression. I was wondering if you had tried talking to a counselor or therapist. That’s what I had to do to deal with feeling so badly about myself and driving others away. You mentioned being in school – can they help you find a good counselor?

    Laura says:
    October 15, 2012 at 2:27 am
    Hi, John
    Thank you for your reply.
    No, I haven’t tried to find a counselor or a therapist. I always thought that I could recover myself, but things got worse although I couldn’t realise that. I have moments when I feel okay, living my life to the full, but then I come back to the same problems over and over again. I am really convinced that it is I who has the power to reckon with depression, but sometimes I fail. At the moment I am practicing self-suggestion and yoga, but I can’t realise whether I am making progress or not. There is always something in the things I do which reminds me that I lack confidence, memory, or guts, and things seem to start again. That is the moment when I feel awful.
    My problem is ambivalent and quite ambiguous. I hope you can understand it.
    I am looking forward to your opinion.
    Thank very much.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    October 19, 2012 at 9:13 am
    Hi, Laura -
    (I thought I would reply to your last few comments here since you have subscribed to responses for this post.) I have found it hard to make progress without the help of a therapist or counselor. My mind has too many ways of trapping me in loops that keep taking me back to the starting point. You mention feeling a lack of confidence or guts, and that is one of the big traps. The negative characterization of your self-work is one of the most difficult depression symptoms to get around. I have found that a therapist is helpful primarily as a teacher of effective methods I can use on my own and as a guide or coach who can help me spot when I’m fooling myself and going round in circles.
    I am glad you find the writing here helpful, and I hope it does encourage you to write more. Your comment about almost making a mistake with your boyfriend is movingly written and also a perfect example of how depression wraps you up in ideas and perceptions that screen out the full reality of how people are behaving. I have that same tendency to keep everything inside and agonize over something that usually isn’t true. I wrote one post about an incident with my colleagues at work years ago when I was convinced they had betrayed me. I confronted them only to find that I had fabricated the whole thing on the basis of a few inaccurate perceptions of mine at a meeting. Depression has often led me into paranoid thinking of that sort. That’s why one of the basic skills that has been so helpful in recovery has been the ability to observe my own negative thinking without believing it. You mention yoga, and that is a good practice for making you observant of your body, as meditation and cognitive therapy can help you observe thoughts and feelings. Depression keeps fighting you by turning on self-criticism for not doing these practices “right” – but that’s only more symptomatic depressive thinking.
    Thanks so much for commenting.

    Cat says:
    June 30, 2012 at 12:59 am
    Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your wonderful writing. As someone who is in the midst of a spiritual awakening, but also living with depression (there goes the law of attraction some days for me!) I totally related to this. I am sure no one cares about me, thinks I am a big dud, etc. etc. And that is not always the case. Not at all. Most of the time, I have had to shuck off people who have tried to take advantage of me or didn’t actually like it when I started getting better in spite of the depression. They suddenly went away. They liked me sick and down so I could be their project! But as well, I also know that I have probably burned people out with talk of depression and I am working on that. I feel so much shame over it though.
    As I go through this awakening process while fighting my mood swings, I also feel a need to step back from most relationships. I have been burned too many times and no one there for me when I needed them to go do something fun with. It’s been very heartbreaking and I’m having to change my whole life and the people I associate with. But first I am working on me. It hard to be your own friend at times under the weight of depression. I cry a lot and hang out with my dog and wait for something intuitive to comfort me and guide me on. Thank you.

    Shel says:
    June 2, 2012 at 9:31 am
    “Depressed: No Friends, No Life” is probably a bit extreme for me right now, today…but I’ve definitely felt the depth of that statement at different points in my life.
    In the past I simply didn’t reach out: I kept it hidden. Even my husband didn’t know the depths of despair that I often felt. When I started therapy, I was told that I push people away…build walls around myself and keep people at arm’s length. That I don’t allow others to help me. That I don’t accept the help others are willing to give. When I finally accepted that, yes, I did suffer from chronic depression, and that my life would only get better if I worked on it actively, I chose a couple of friends to open up to. I explained some of my situation, and asked for their help, in very specific ways (which as you probably know is extremely difficult to do…opening yourself up like that…allowing yourself to be so vulnerable). I wish that I could say that this has been a good thing…but unfortunately it hasn’t really worked the way I had hoped. Maybe my expectations were too high. I’m trying to stay positive, but am perplexed that I can be such a poor judge of character in others…repeatedly. I have to keep reminding myself to fight the negative self-talk, but it’s really hard when you face disappointment nearly every time to put yourself out there with other people. It’s far easier to stay within myself.
    All of your points are spot on with me. If I felt up to risking it, I would forward your blog to a couple of people just so that they might understand all of this better.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    June 10, 2012 at 10:02 am
    Hi, Shel -
    It may not be that you’re a poor judge of character (though depression makes clear judgment harder), it could just be that people don’t want to hear about a chronic problem like depression. So many people simply won’t go into their vulnerabilities. As you share yours, they may well fear getting too close to their own. I made several mistakes like that of talking to the wrong person. Suddenly, they aren’t really there for you anymore. When a couple of friends heard I had cancer about 20 years ago, that was it. They were gone. It’s a rare friend who can handle such things and remain helpfully responsive. On the other hand, I found it essential to open up to my wife and later to my grown children – the honesty has only drawn us closer together.

    Kirsten says:
    April 11, 2012 at 3:55 pm
    What I just read that was so beautifully written sounds exactly like me. I was wondering if you could email me. I have been diagnosed bipolar/depression. I have a king story. I am a female, only 21 and just got out of the Marine Corps and am happily married- but who I am has been suffering since I was 16.

    mark says:
    July 19, 2010 at 1:14 pm
    just be comfortable with yourself and who you are in the end of the day. Then you don’t have to seek anything from anyone becasue you’ll know who you are. I think a lot of people think if they don’t have friends or money that their life is a failure. But what are friends only aquaintences who really lets be honest won’t be around when times get tough for you. Money is the same. A materialistic trap that many people have fallen into and wasted the great gift of life in spending their days trying to acquire. So really in the end have you lost out on something or have you gained something. Trust me it all comes from how you percieve yourself.
    If you see it as a bad thing then guess what it’ll be a bad thing.
    This thing also of bringing people out that the other poster mentioned doesn’t really work. Ive had people do that and all that happens is they drag you into their happy little world trying to make you happy and you may not really be comfortable with it in the first place.
    I guess in summary the truth is once your comfortable with yourself who you are everything falls into place.

    Tom says:
    December 3, 2009 at 2:36 pm
    My friends and I have come up with a strategy that has been useful when any of us gets stuck in a rut: we more or less, literally, pull the down and out person out of the their house and take them out for some fun. It sounds and sometimes can be pretty hard but in the end, it always expedites the healing process.
    Is this a good tactic? Or should this type of depression-kicking strategy only be used by very close friends/relatives?

    john says:
    December 4, 2009 at 10:58 am
    Hi Tom -
    If it works, that’s great! I’m not sure, though, what you mean by “stuck in a rut.” That sounds more like a normal down period that everyone has from time to time rather than the chronic depression I write about here. Depression as a disorder as opposed to the “blues” would last quite a while and be pretty stubborn. Working on the symptom can certainly help – I do similar things to get myself out in the sunshine when I’m down – but that wouldn’t keep it from coming back. If it seems more persistent and really is depression, the illness, you would know that. Consulting a counselor would also be a way of checking out what was happening. But, as I say, if it works to pull a friend out of the house and improves outlook and mood, that’s a good thing. Everyone has their own methods to deal with the immediate feelings.

    WonderingSoul says:
    December 2, 2009 at 1:55 pm
    I’m stunned again at hearing all my own experiences spoken with such clarity and such understanding.
    I wish I could tell you what it’s like to have all these words in me, jumbled and split, but in me nonetheless; and then to see them all put together, in the right order, to tell some of my own story… It is so strange and again, highlights the commonalities of depression.
    For an illness that is so profoundly isolating, there is a hell of a lot of shared experience involved…
    When I’m really bad, I can’t face being near anyone because it feels so overwhelmingly pointless.
    I guess tht in a way, I’m still very much at the mercy of all this and although not terribly depressed at this very second, or even on this day, I feel as though it is almost a part of me nowadays.
    I identify with what you you write about people not really being able to handle despair in others. I think it has to be one of the hardest things… to be exposed to absolute bottomless despair in another… maybe even harder than being faced with your own.
    I also find / have found that not too many people really ‘get it’ and so find it pretty fruitless to evn attempt to explain.
    I do just the opposite really.
    Hardly anyone, bar my therapist and 2 good friends, would ever even guess that I suffer from it. For the most part I am incredibly upbeat and positive.
    I struggle with this bcause I find that the act exhausts me. At the same time, I cling to it because it keeps me alive.
    I would be far too afraid to show people the darkness and the lack of hope that is like a shadow across my lungs and gut. I would be ashamed.
    Thank you for such a thought provoking, well articulated post. Again.
    Much love

    Andy K says:
    November 27, 2009 at 3:14 am
    very articulate, thank you!

    john says:
    November 27, 2009 at 1:57 pm
    Thanks, I appreciate that. Glad you came by.

    Evan says:
    November 26, 2009 at 9:49 pm
    Thanks John.

    Evan says:
    November 25, 2009 at 3:18 am
    Reaching out can be tricky. Normally my friends know that I am willing and able to listen. Sometimes it’s just sitting with them.
    It can be pretty awful being with the distress.

    john says:
    November 26, 2009 at 5:33 pm
    Hello, Evan -
    They must trust you to be with them in a supportive, non-judgmental way. You project that deep humanity through your writing as well. I hope you have someone to turn to for your own need.
    My best, as always -

    Wendy Love says:
    November 24, 2009 at 9:05 am
    As always, it amazes me how many words you can find to describe some of these feelings and experiences. I am a bottom line kind of person, summing up without giving all the details of what leads to my conclusions. But you ask a good question which I will try to answer. When I reach a really dark place I email (don’t phone) a few choice friends, tell them I am in trouble once again and ask them to pray. They are only too happy to do that for me as I am happy to do that for them as well. I choose carefully, only those that understand depression and will not be overwhelmed with my request. They all know I don’t want visitors, just prayer. It has taken me a long time to get to this place. But actually reaching out is not my style when depressed. I hide, which is my form of rest, and stay hidden until my symptoms improve and I am able, once again, to face people. Then I report to my prayer team, who are encouraged by my progress. When I am feeling quite good though I try to connect with a friend. It seems then to be wonderful medicine for me and they are happy to see me since they don’t see me very often. If I am not doing well, but not down so badly that I have to hide in bed, I will sometimes visit a specially chosen friend, who I am comfortable with. I don’t necessarily tell them I am down. I just try to enjoy the visit and often find it lifts my spirits at least for awhile. This is probably easier for women than for men since we relate to each other so naturally and manage to share from our hearts without much effort. I guess that it would probably be more difficult for a man to find a man friend to relate with. Therefore the topic of friends for depressed men becomes even more depressing! But for anyone reading this, if you don’t have an appropriate friend, pray and ask God to send you one. He will!

    john says:
    November 26, 2009 at 3:51 pm
    Hi, Wendy -
    It’s wonderful that you’ve found a way to deal with this and have the heartfelt support of friends. I think you’re right about men trying to relate to other men. In fact, I had a section on that in this post but cut it out since it’s such a general problem. I shouldn’t have. The close relationships many men have with other men tend to go back to early years, growing up together, in school or very early in their work lives. After that there’s enough competitiveness that it can be hard to admit to problems. Then also men are raised to keep their feelings to themselves or even suppress them. That’s communicated by all sorts of cues, not just strict parents. So, yes, that’s hard. I’ve always found it much easier to talk to women friends about these things.
    Thank you for letting us know about how you deal with this.

    Mo says:
    November 23, 2009 at 5:27 pm
    I too have felt the same way, very recently. I “censor” myself, according to my therapist, but I think he’s only got it half right. I’m not trying to censor myself. Rather, I’m desperately trying to speak, but no words will come out. My mind, in social situations, can become a complete blank. The other day I was out with a group from work, one of whom I really wanted to befriend, but I could not say anything of value. I can write it down, I can say it to my wife (with great difficulty), but I cannot reach out when I’m depressed and anxious.

    john says:
    November 26, 2009 at 3:38 pm
    Hi, Mo -
    I’ve felt that same way, and it is quite different from censorship. Talking to others, even people I know well, can be impossible – my mind blanks out, and I just feel stupid. Or I speak so slowly that people start filling in sentences for me. I started telling people I wasn’t well or else avoided even trying to talk to anyone when in that condition. I sympathize. It is a big step to see this as a symptom – I hope your therapist can listed to everything you say. Sometimes, they can jump to conclusions.
    My best to you -


    Is It Loneliness or Is It Depression?
    by John Folk-Williams

    It may seem strange to pose this question: is it loneliness or is it depression? After all, many people feel loneliness at the loss or weakening of close relationships because of depression, and most of us who’ve lived with the condition over a lifetime experience those broken connections as some of its worst effects.

    On the other hand, lots of lonely people are not depressed – sad, most likely, but not necessarily experiencing the classic symptoms. The two are different but often occur together. Getting straight about the difference isn’t a matter of hair-splitting for me. It’s been an important part of learning how to take my life back from depression.

    The recent book, Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection reminds me of the way I got started in recovery and also offers new and helpful insights about the differences between loneliness and depression.

    The authors explore why social connection is an essential part of human nature and what the effects of loneliness are, including long-term physical deterioration. They cite many cultures in which the worst punishment is not death but banishment, because it cuts a person off from every connection that gives them a meaningful place in the world. Deprived of that, they begin a collapse on many levels – from neurological to spiritual.

    But this study also describes the importance of the pain of loneliness in the broad trend of human evolution as a possible warning sign. It can help sustain the bonds that hold a community together by reminding an individual of the central importance of human connection to survival. That impels a lonely person to restore the lost relationships. There is a pull to return.

    We have all known the long loneliness and we have learned that the only solution is love and that love comes with community. – Dorothy Day

    Depression, on the other hand, serves as a different kind of warning. Stress and other causes have created such harm that an individual can no longer be a helpful part of the community and must retreat from contact in order to heal. Depression impels a person away from social bonds, at least for a time.

    The concept of this contrasting pull-push is a good description of what I’ve gone through.

    Isolation and Loneliness

    When I’m in the depths of depression I’m completely isolated from people. I can hardly focus on what they might be telling me or bear to make a gesture in their direction. My feelings aren’t there – I can’t respond. People sense I’m not really in their presence at all. Trying to be with others is painful, and I need to retreat to deal with my own sense of despair, worthlessness and the rest of the charming attributes of depression. I need to start healing and to do that I have to be alone and get into whatever treatment might help.

    It isn’t until I’m coming out of depression and can see the damage I’ve done to my relationships – even if unintentionally – that I can begin to feel that loss. Then I’m deeply lonely and hope I can rebuild and restore the closeness and trust I’ve undermined. In our culture, though, that’s hard. There are no ceremonies to celebrate a return. I may more likely be greeted with mistrust, anger and distance.

    No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence. What loneliness is more lonely than distrust? – George Eliot


    When I was putting this blog together, the first topic that came to mind as essential to recovery was connecting. It was a main theme that ran through the journals that were my first source for these posts. Connecting meant that, first, I had to reconnect with my own feelings, always so remote and unreachable during the worst periods of depression. I had to be able to feel again, and to do that I had to open doors shut firmly against even sense impressions of the world around me. Most fundamentally I had to accept myself again as a whole person.

    I had to feel the strength come back to my own body, see the colors in things, hear the words people spoke, and laugh, grieve, feel lonely, want to be part of my family again, want to go to work. Reconnecting with my own feelings, responding to daily life, I could begin to restore deeper connections with my wife and children. I often went through all this quite quickly, sometimes waking up one morning and feeling human again. At other times, I had to use all the tricks I’d learned just to get started.

    Hard as most of those periods of recovery were, they were lost in depression before long, and the whole process had to start over again. What has encouraged me more recently is that the pull from loneliness back into connection has been so much fuller and more complete than ever before.

    This push-pull idea is a useful reframing of experience, partly because it suggests that there are forces moving in depression and loneliness that go far beyond my own boundaries. That is another reminder that I’m not so alone as I imagine when isolation seems most complete.


    I know the experience of loneliness in relation to depression can differ widely in meaning for each person. What is it like for you?

    Ann Louise says:
    June 15, 2014 at 7:18 pm
    Hi Guys and Girls. Same problems with SAD, depression and isolation. Have a hard time dealing with all these emotional issues. etc. Would it be possible to make Skype group or videochat online?

    robin says:
    April 6, 2014 at 10:26 am
    I need help! I am dyslexia! I have coverd this for your years. I get by with it by hiding it. As long as I can remember. I have been mad, depress, anger, lonely and lost my marriage. Can’t read, write and no job. Nobody wants to hire stupid people. I can’t sleep, I feel the walls coming on me. Something happen to me as growing up. I sit down all day and think about sadness in my life. My mother perfer to be with my sister and het sons. I can’t remember anythink nice about my life. Just bad things. No money! No job, every time I start to write it’s about sadness, hurt, pain. I want to be smart and pretty. I want to trust and believe in people. I have two beautiful daughters I love very much and care for. I have holed job like receptionists. I can’t even take notes down the fear of Somebody finding out I am dyslexia. I am barassen about this. I live with somebody but he say I don’t make sentences half the time. Just sad and anger mad at the world.

    beverly s says:
    April 12, 2014 at 10:07 pm
    Robin, please don’t be embarrassed. Dyslexia is something you did not choose and it doesn’t by any means equal stupid. I can’t imagine the resourcefulness and cleverness you have relied on all of your life to continue hiding your dyslexia. Did you know that whoopie goldberg is dyslexic? I am no expert…far from it. But I believe there is help out there. Try googling dyslexia and your town and maybe see what resources might pop up.
    And you probably are already smart and pretty, but just don’t see it. If you get help with coping and adapting with/to the dyslexia it might be a first step toward feeling better..best wishes to you.

    Jackson says:
    February 21, 2014 at 6:58 am
    Hello John,
    I have lost a deeply meaningful relationship seven months ago, and have spiraled into depression and profound feelings of loneliness and hopelessness.
    I have a question I hope you, and others, may address. Do you think it is possible to advertise for companionship of another understanding person, who also is experiencing similar feelings of profound loneliness, and to offer them a place to live and to reduce, hopefully in time, eliminate, the deep sense of loneliness? I have a modest but nice home, and would welcome the company of another person to share my home with me. Rather than attempting to wait for the chance of bumping into another person, I have considered the idea of actively searching for someone who is lonely, like me, who is searching for a safe place to live, and be with another empathetic person who is also lonely. Is this idea realistic, or is it flawed somehow?
    I hope I have made myself somewhat clear, and hope you and others will give me your thoughts and insights.
    Sincerely yours….Jackson

    gg says:
    February 23, 2014 at 2:50 pm
    Hi Jackson,
    First of all, I’m sorry for your loss, hope you’re recovering.
    I think your idea of advertising is, in theory, good, but unfortunately it could be a bit dangerous to open up this way, to show fragility upfront, because you could be an easy target to someone with bad intentions.. I think you should look for a good company to live with, if you feel it would help healing (and in my opinion online dating is a really amazing tool – in case you wanted someone to have a romantic relationship), but I guess it would be better if you’d start looking without opening your house right away to a strange.
    Best wishes!

    kathy says:
    January 14, 2014 at 6:43 pm
    I need help all I do is watch TV all day till I go to bed n do it all again the next day, am I just lazy or is something else all
    I know is I can’t do it anymore, I love my grandbabies, but do nothing about it,,, I miss them so much but do nothing to see them, I hate going out, what’s wrong with me, I just cry. M miss them n am jealous

    beverly s says:
    April 12, 2014 at 10:19 pm
    Kathy, It sounds like you are depressed, I have been the same way and asked myself the same question. I can work hard but i lean towards lazy..but when I am depressed I can be frozen to the couch channel surfing and not even really enjoy anything on TV. I used to come home from work and do that for hours….way into the night and of course be late for work the next day and get home and do it all over again.
    I was the same way about my grandkids and what made matters worse was I was trying to hide my depression from my kids. We don’t live in the same towns. When I am with them it really lifts me. I have somehow been forcing myself to pick up the phone and call my family and do a little facebook so that I don’t disappear all together. I was very sad and cried a lot too. I still do but not as much. I am regularly seeing a therapist now. I hope you seek out some support to feel better.

    Greg Weber says:
    November 10, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    For me, it’s not loneliness or depression, it’s loneliness AND depression. The two are always present and interacting in a kind of dance. Sometimes the loneliness is the result of isolation brought on by depression. Sometimes the loneliness is the fundamental loneliness of the human condition. Even people who are completely depression-free feel lonely some of the time – because they’re still human beings. That kind of basic human loneliness is, I think, fundamentally healthy. Learning to sit with it is part of my journey of recovery.
    The profound isolation brought on by depression and the loneliness that ensues from that is, however, part of my disease. It’s THAT loneliness that requires action, requires me to reach out. That’s the challenge, because my depression doesn’t WANT me to reach out. It wants to kill me with the intolerable loneliness that comes from isolation. I just think it’s important to differentiate between the two.

    Elle says:
    November 6, 2013 at 7:58 pm
    It is like being in jail in my mind. Who am going to tell how lonely I am when they all just flick it off as take a pill you mental case. I know I am lonely and that I isolate I myself.` I am kind of scared that trying and failing would push me over the edge.
    Nobody can tell me that all of the Social Network and Facebook and 2 dimensional friendships are like emotional intimacy. I need a 3rd dimension outlet. One friend I do not care. I know I am a good person, I know that I am worth something. I know all of these things as surely as I know I have not spoken one word on a phone or to a living person in a week. Sometimes when I open my mouth to I cannot even talk. It sucks
    I did do one thing that may help you guys. but had to stop because I have to get my eyes operated on….No biggie just long wait.
    I knew that I am shy and have a hard time looking people in the eyes..so I started taking acting classes where YOU HAVE TO DO IT!!! The first night after class I could barely get to the car because it was very emotional…all those people being nice and supportive and I HAD to look them in the eye and had to be filmed. It was so out of my comfort zone . I really started crying it was one of the best things I have ever done for myself…it made me WANT to go somewhere. Then came the eyes..so I can’t see the scripts so figured why waste these guys time. I WILL BE BACK AFTER THEY ARE DONE THOUGH.

    The Real Answer says:
    October 27, 2013 at 1:19 pm
    It is always wonderful to be Blessed to find a Loved one to spend the rest of your Life with, instead of being Alone and having no one.

    Stan says:
    November 19, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    My love goes out to you, you have found what you are looking for, but it is something you already had before you found love….

    Leslie says:
    October 22, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    I found this blog very interesting, I have struggled with isolation, loneliness, and depression in my life. I feel like they all go together. I read another blog on this subject which I found helpful, http://www.psychalive.org/2009/06/isolation-and-loneliness/. I particularly liked the part where it suggests the actions you can take to get out of the isolated state, especially looking outside yourself and looking for ways to help others.

    heloisa says:
    October 11, 2013 at 1:23 pm
    hope you can get this message.

    Violet Reid says:
    October 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm
    I’m just incredibly lonely, all the time, even when I’m with people. I feel unhappy everywhere and as though I don’t belong anywhere. I have nowhere to turn and nobody to talk to. I can’t even connect or look forward to connecting with people anymore. I just don’t know.

    Seriously Speaking says:
    October 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm
    have to certainly agree with you very much on that, and being alone really sucks when it is very hard to meet the right person to connect with.

    loyal says:
    October 12, 2013 at 3:47 am
    Perhaps you could reconnect with someone who once made you happy-before the depression. I bet there are people from your life who miss your presence.

    Seriously Speaking says:
    October 13, 2013 at 9:49 am
    Not Really, and many of us serious men out there looking for a good woman to meet is very difficult since they are not that friendly to start a conversation with. the ones that were Very Blessed by God to have met the right woman for them and have a family, certainly do have a lot to be thankful for.

    Elysse says:
    August 31, 2013 at 6:57 pm
    There is life in you. I wonder if I’m hearing the description of deep deep loneliness and the sadness of not being connected to another person, or people. Finding people with whom we truly connect is hard…and rare. Being misunderstood compounds the feeling of loneliness. The void you describe breaks my heart and you are not the only person who has felt it or feels it. You are not alone. I will think about you and hope that you have a moment of joy. And that those moments increase. And I hope that feelings of hope return for you. No lectures from me or advice. I’m just a stranger who read your post and is feeling compassion for the feelings you’re describing. You are not death. You are living. I do hope you’ll feel alive again.

    MM says:
    September 7, 2013 at 3:40 am
    I dont know you but I care…please get help and don’t take your life.
    My son has Asperger’s. He is ten. It’s a struggle daily but your post moved me a great deal. Have you ever read “Look me in the eyes”-it’s a great book of a man’s account of growing up with Asperger’s…I found understanding in it and assume that someone with Asperger’s might find a connection in it . . . one man to another. Words and writers can connect with complete strangers but it’s still meaningful. I don’t think it will save you but it may help you feel like you are not so alone…do you have anyone you can talk to? A friend? Therapist?

    Heliconia says:
    August 24, 2013 at 7:39 pm
    It is really true that I am unbelievably, deliriously happy when I am volunteering, on mission somewhere. You know what its like to wake up everyday and be happier than you ever thought you could be? But I don’t have money to support myself that way – so I can only do it when I have enough money saved.
    Otherwise I don’t even want to describe myself to depress you and me both.

    janine says:
    July 28, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    Hi John
    I came abour your blog while searching the web for solutions for my current feelings. It helps a lot just to know that i am not the only one suffering from this condition.
    I am busy destroying all my close relationships because I feel i am not worthy, not good enough or there will always be someone better then me. I also have this jealous nature that causes me to resent what other people have, causing me rather to stand back as to be part of their happines.
    I do not know where to start with the healing process, i just know that i do not want to feel like this anymore.
    Sorry for my grammer, I am from south africa an english is not my home lanuage.

    Val says:
    June 23, 2013 at 2:12 am
    This definition makes so much sense. Depression can include loneliness but is so much more. Loneliness, to me, is an overwhelming feeling of sadness. People with depression have described a total disconnection with people as well as feelings.

    TheTruth says:
    May 18, 2013 at 8:38 pm
    being by myself is very depressing and lonely, especially after a divorce. and what makes it worse is trying to meet a good woman is very hard for me. and after seeing so many very lucky men and women that were very fortunate to have met one another and have a family, makes it much worse for me. i always wanted to have a family since i am no different than the ones that have it today. i feel as if God is really punishing me from having a love life and i don’t know why, and with so many mean women that are out there today makes it even worse when many of them don’t want to be bothered when i am trying to start a conversation with the one that i would really like to meet.

    Maria Scally says:
    May 14, 2013 at 1:52 am
    Good morning John
    I am sat here on this lovely morning realizing that I have lived longer than I will live, given my age now. I feel angry with myself for having depression. And I hate my weakness of character that creates a need for company. My children are all grown and I am so lonely. At the moment I go to bed so early because I have nothing else to do. I hate the thought of dying and when that time comes wanting to jump up and say stop this process I have not done such a thing yet. It will be too late then, so why can I not get better. Why are there people like me, who are kind human beings, but are just so lonely.
    I searched for articles on loneliness and depression and your blog came up. Thank you for writing it.

    Judy says:
    July 6, 2013 at 9:56 am
    Hi Maria,
    I understand. I am lonely, and I have depression. My children are grown, and I feel that life is meaningless. I had moments of happiness but I realize that I have been lonely all my life except for the years raising my family and when I had deep love and connection. A brief space of my life.
    There is no reason for it.
    Peace to you.

    Laura says:
    October 15, 2012 at 11:13 am
    I love your writing style. It inspires me in learning and improving my English. Not only the way you write is wonderful, but also the things you say. It relaxes me and I learn a lot of things about ourselves at the same time.
    Maybe you got fed up with my posts, but I have to say that I no longer feel alone when I am expressing myself through writing and speaking to you. It makes me feel so good. That’s a connection.
    Thank you very much.

    Robin says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:56 am
    John, thanks so much for writing this post. My significant other suffers from severe depression and she sometimes need to withdraw and it was hard for me to understand why, so your post has been most beneficial. Your writing is wonderful, please keep it up!

    john says:
    July 11, 2010 at 8:05 pm
    Thanks, Robin -
    I’m glad the post was helpful. And I hope your SO can find her way out of severe depression. It’s great she has your support.

    Alyssa says:
    October 14, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    Hey John,
    Thanks for using my photograph for your article! I’m honored to have contributed, in some small sort of way, to the powerful essence of these original written works in your Blog. Truly, a compelling culmination of thoughts. Indeed, your message captures a huge part of the motivation behind this picture.
    My heart goes out to you and those who find a glimpses of themselves within the words of your article – keep writing! And
    Keep on keepin’ on.

    john says:
    October 14, 2009 at 10:53 pm
    It’s great to hear from you. Your image is one of the most compelling I’ve found in the 2+ years I’ve been doing this blog. Thank you for making it available under Creative Commons. I’ve been looking again at your work on Flickr – there are so many brilliant images. Your studies of people have a special depth that I don’t often see.
    And thank you for that enormous ego-boost of encouragement.
    All my best -

    Marlo Perez says:
    October 8, 2009 at 11:51 pm
    thanks for posting this blog. Sometihow everybody got depressed over something or someone that we have lost. Though I felt depression but not that severe, I really thank God as well my friends and yes the internet since it become my outlet of my loneliness and depression. By doing and writing and reading blogs, somehow I felt the connection that indeed I am not alone, indeed I am not the only one experiencing those moments.

    john says:
    October 11, 2009 at 12:21 pm
    That’s very true. When I started blogging, I never suspected how important the exchange of comments around the mental health blogging world would become so important to my recovery. I’ve found so many wonderful connections.
    Thanks for coming by.

    Rich says:
    June 15, 2009 at 4:53 pm
    Thanks for the words of encouragement. If it’s one thing I’m learning during all of this is that patience is a virtue that is most needed in my life. I’ve heard of Hayes’ ACT therapy and subscribe to the ACT forum – there’s a great deal of useful information from others who actively practice ACT. And, interestingly I am currently reading Storr’s book.
    And, yes I do keep trying each and every day.

    Rich says:
    June 15, 2009 at 10:29 am
    Thank you so much for writing this article and sharing your experience. I am currently reading the book you mentioned in your blog and have found it very insightful. I suffer from depression, social anxiety, and loneliness and have for many years. What is most profound for me is the sensation (and pains) of social isolation that come from loneliness. I completely understand the push-pull phenomenom mentioned in the book, which leads to learned helplessness. I struggle with the loneliness on a daily basis and I find it difficult at days to cope. My therapist encourages me that things will get better, but it will take time. I am keeping a positive attitude but I have to say there are days when I don’t feel that way.

    john says:
    June 15, 2009 at 11:37 am
    Hello, Rich -
    I know those are difficult feelings to put up with for so long – though the hopelessness you might feel at seeing no change is yet another symptom of depression. There is a newer form of therapy, which I’m going to write about soon, called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). It’s the one approach that most closely reflects the experiences I’ve been through, leading to a change in the way I experience the pain of these interrelated conditions. You might check with your therapist about it. Steven Hayes is a leading practitioner and writer in that field. His book is called Getting Out of Your Head and Into Your Life – it’s primarily a workbook but a very good one, unlike most I’ve seen. ACT is about changing the way you view and experience the pain you feel.
    Another good book presents the positive side of aloneness, as opposed to loneliness. That Anthony Storrs’ book called Solitude. May Sarton, the poet and novelist, wrote a lot about living alone. One book is Journal of a Solitude. They’ve been helpful to me – but each of us is so different.
    I hope you’ll keep trying. I figure if I could make a turnaround after decades, it must be possible for others as well.
    All my best – John

    Bobby Revell says:
    May 9, 2009 at 3:38 pm
    Hey John, one great thing about blogging is that if someone is depressed and lonely and perhaps doesn’t have many people in their daily lives, they can turn to the digital community. It’s certainly no substitute for real human contact, but it does help a lot. I know it’s helped me in my daily life. It gets the conversational juices flowing and often carries over into daily life. Very insightful article:)

    john says:
    May 9, 2009 at 8:55 pm
    Hi, Bobby – That’s so true. I’m amazed at how meaningful these online relationships and conversations become. They’ve been really important for myt recovery as well.
    Thanks for coming by!

    One Sick Mother says:
    May 3, 2009 at 7:57 am
    I have selected you for the Premio Dardos award. Info below.
    The Prémio Dardos is given for recognition of cultural, ethical, literary, and personal values transmitted in the form of creative and original writing. These stamps were created with the intention of promoting fraternization between bloggers, a way of showing affection and gratitude for work that adds value to the Web.



    john says:
    May 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm
    Thank you so much!
    The purpose you quote is especially beautiful, and I’m honored that you thought of me.
    Be well – John

    Ellen says:
    May 1, 2009 at 5:47 pm
    Hi John,
    It almost seems that loneliness is a sign of returning health – while in the depths of depression we don’t want people in any case, but once we get better, that lonely feeling hits.
    Because I suffer from social anxiety, which is a fear of people combined with a longing to be with them, I think my own depression may actually be caused by my troubles with relationships. Life doesn’t go well when just being with others is a source of anxiety. Then there is deep loneliness and frustration that life is so difficult. And bang, I’m in depression. Which like you say first has to be healed to some degree, before I’m ready to try with people again.
    I think too that loneliness is a feeling, though a painful one, while depression tends to be the absence of feeling and meaning.
    Cheers, Ellen

    john says:
    May 1, 2009 at 8:03 pm
    Hi, Ellen -
    That’s interesting about social anxiety – I hadn’t thought that longing to be with people was part of it. But I think that’s been true for me as well – I’ve always imagined getting along splendidly with others – and wanting to be with them – but then felt acute, consuming anxiety that just drove me away.
    I guess feeling loneliness is a sign of recovery the way the ability to feel almost any emotion is. The connection with people is so basic it’s no wonder we get lonely and long for it when there are obstacles – invisible ones – blocking us off. It’s easy to see how depression can follow.
    Thanks for stopping by – I hope you’re well.

    Kelly says:
    April 29, 2009 at 12:37 pm
    This is such a timely topic for me. I emerged from a deep depression a few months ago, and ever since I’ve been extra leery of any hint of depression. Just last night I questioned whether I was depressed because I’ve been feeling so lonely. But after reading your blog post, I realize that I can be lonely without being depressed. Loneliness isn’t necessarily an indicator of depression.
    I guess in figuring out whether you’re depressed or only lonely, you need to look at the whole picture – are you feeling hopeless, lack energy, isolating yourself, etc.

    john says:
    April 29, 2009 at 9:11 pm
    Kelly – I’m so glad you’ve gotten past that period of depression. It’s true that looking at the big picture is important to get clear about what’s going on. I know the feeling you describe of being leery about depression returning. The problem I had to get around – and it only took me about 25 years! – was to change the assumption – belief – that depression was my norm, that sooner or later it would reassert itself, and I wouldn’t be able to stop it. Being as clear as I could about what I was experiencing has been so helpful. I’m no longer convincing myself that depression explains every aspect of my life. These changes in thinking and belief have been so important for me!
    I hope you keep on making progress -
    My very best to you – John

    la says:
    April 28, 2009 at 5:34 pm
    I feel depression would be much easier to bear if it wasn’t for the accompanying isolation. It’s like pneumonia in a way: it crops up on so many birth certificates but they always suffered from something else, pneumonia was just the thing that they couldn’t survive.

    john says:
    April 28, 2009 at 9:21 pm
    Hi, la – I believe depression only comes prepackaged with isolation – the free bonus, like arsenic in the mail. It’s strange how the whole thing can come and go for no apparent reason – at least in my case. I’d rather not think about dying from it – but when deep into isolation I’m not sure there’s a whole lot else to think about. Thank God in a big way that I’ve been feeling basically OK for quite a while now – can’t say I miss the isolation ward.
    I hope you’re feeling better – John


    Depression Gets Physical: Pain, Heart, Bone and Beyond
    by John Folk-Williams

    Just as I was thinking I understood the full range of depression’s impact on my life, I started finding out about links between the mood disorder and some nasty physical problems. I mentioned in this post the prevalence of pain among depressed people seeking treatment from their regular doctors. But depression can do a lot more to your body than inflict pain. It has been linked to coronary heart disease, congestive heart failure, diabetes and loss of bone mineral density.

    The link between the mood disorder and physical impacts, however, isn’t a simple matter of cause and effect. Some physical problems, like chronic pain, may be symptomatic of depression, although it’s not yet listed among the formal diagnostic criteria for a major depressive episode. When depression appears along with cardiovascular disease, congestive heart failure or diabetes, on the other hand, the relationship is not that of symptom to illness. Instead, depression coexists, or in medical terms is comorbid, with independent diseases. It can be a risk factor for the future onset of those conditions, and depression may have the same neurochemistry that causes them.

    Here are a few of the facts and theories emerging from recent studies.

    Physical Symptoms

    The most common physical complaints that depressed people bring to their primary care physicians are pain, gastrointestinal problems and sleep disorders. The leader of the pack is pain.

    It comes in many varieties that relate to depression. Chronic back pain, joint pain, arm and leg pain, especially when they seem to have no explanation, are high on the list. In fact, the presence of pain and other physical symptoms that seem to have no cause makes it all the more likely that there is an underlying mood disorder, most often depression.

    Why does pain, in particular, so frequently appear with depression? Neuroscience researchers have looked closely at the link. Apparently, there’s an overlap between pathways in the nervous system that help bring on both pain and depression. The neurotransmitters, serotonin and norepinephrine, familiar as the targets of antidepressant medication, also contribute to pain. The evidence seems to say that reduced levels of these hormones can result in both pain and depression.

    Unfortunately, treatment usually doesn’t deal directly with pain. However, research is finding that if those problems stay with you after you feel better and seem to be out of a bad episode, you have a greater risk of relapsing. That makes me wonder if I’ve recovered as fully as I thought, since I have my own checklist of chronic physical problems.

    Coexisting Diseases

    Coronary Heart Disease:

    Because heart disease is such a widespread killer, researchers have put together a lot of data about the difference that depression makes to heart patients. The findings aren’t good. If you’re depressed and have coronary artery disease, you’re twice as likely as those who are not depressed to have a major cardiac event within 12 months of the diagnosis. You are also a lot more likely to die after a heart attack or coronary bypass surgery. While a number of studies confirm those grim connections, it’s less clear why depression has these effects.

    One theory points to impacts on the autonomic nervous system. This is the system regulating vital functions that occur without your awareness, especially the beating of your heart. One part of autonomic system is the sympathetic nervous system. Its function is to stimulate the heart, while the parasympathetic nervous system relaxes it. Depression may increase the stimulation and reduce the relaxation of the heart muscle, and that can lead to a number of cardiac events.

    The neurotransmitters linked to depression could affect the arteries as well. When their levels in the blood drop, that reduction may contribute to the chronic inflammatory process that defines coronary artery disease.

    Loss of Bone Mineral Density:

    All studies haven’t reached the same conclusions, but the majority of them have found connections between depression and decreases in bone mineral density. That leads to osteoporosis and an increased risk of fracture in older adults.

    Depression is linked to elevated levels of the steroid cortisol. Too much cortisol may also affect bone metabolism and so reduce mineral density. Estrogen and testosterone production are important for bone health, and depression tends to lower the levels of these hormones as well. A third mechanism by which depression can lead to bone loss is the increased activity of the sympathetic nervous system that affects heart disease.

    The behavior of depressed people can also play a role. Depression is associated with less physical activity, and without exercise the body loses an important way of increasing bone mineral density. Smoking and alcohol use are both linked to depression, and both can reduce bone formation.


    About 23 million people in the US have diabetes, and a ten year study, lasting from 1996 to 2006, has found a link with depression. The study tracked more than 65,000 women between 50 and 75 years old. Those who were taking antidepressants were 25% more likely to develop diabetes than women who were not depressed. Women with diabetes were almost 30% more likely to get a depressive disorder than women without diabetes. If they were taking insulin, the risk of depression was more than 50% higher.

    There are two ways of explaining this connection. One is biological and has to do with the effects of stress. Depression tends to put people into long-lasting stress, and that results in higher levels of cortisol in the blood. That’s the steroid produced by the body to help it deal with threats and high stress situations – which can be psychological as well as external. High levels of cortisol cause numerous problems, and diabetes may be one of them.

    The other explanation focuses on the behavior of people with both conditions. Diabetics rely on self-care, including regular insulin injections, and depressed people often fail to take care of themselves. Diabetes can also worsen depression because it is a chronic illness that increases the level of stress and worry in daily life. Since these are also characteristics of depression, they become even worse with the added complication of diabetes.

    I first read about the possible effects of depression on these widespread diseases in Peter Kramer’s Against Depression. He argued that such physical effects made it all the more urgent to begin depression treatment as early as possible. Successful treatment of depression at its first appearance increases the chances of preventing the illness from becoming recurrent. And it is the continuing distortion of the body’s neurochemistry caused by repeated episodes depression that greatly increases the risk of developing other serious diseases later in life. That’s a strong motive for finding effective treatment as soon as possible.

    amber1537 says:
    October 10, 2013 at 7:37 am
    I have longed wanted someone to help me with my depression and anger. I feel that having this illness mybe have a reson but I cant find one yet. I hope that I can be stornger and more wise with my depression and deal with my anger

    thulasi says:
    January 17, 2013 at 9:03 pm
    i m suffering with some depression and addicted to thinking something in day time and night in sleep also everyday from past 6 years . and i am extreamly stressed also . i am not able to give rest to my mind at all . as it goes on like that from past 2 weeks i’m feeling chest pain very much and my eyes also paining like any thing .. please suggest what i have to do ? please ?

    Liz says:
    January 15, 2013 at 8:59 am
    Hi all,
    I’m feeling sad today. I just woke like that…i have moved to Canada 13 years ago and still don’t find Canada my home. I work on a job which i didn’t choose by likehood, only because of the role. I have children which i don’t enjoy for a long time. A husband who’s day to day is work and come back home to feel sad and talk to me about his ugly boss and his far away family who lives at 10 min from us and he never sees, because they don’t even care on calling. I’m tired, upset of who i have become…and i’m only 34. I have been recently diagnosed with some kind of Depression, i guess i understand what’s all about, but i can’t feel i’m going forward with my therapies. I have been off since August and can’t find an easy way to get out and play with life. I have gone to the gym, brought the dog to the park every day, talked to one of my friends about other things, trying to get rid of anyone with sadness and argumental opinions around me. I have tried to feel more comfortable with the children and play any games. Watched shows about the disease, make myself available to others, read books, …..i don’t know what else to do….
    Can you please help me
    Dr. John?

    laura says:
    October 11, 2012 at 11:13 am
    I think I have just found myself in these lines and I’m really happy it happened. I have some health problems but it had never occurred to me that they should be connected to our daily stress and anger. I have acute back pains, stomach ache, candidosis, I fall asleep late at night and I have also realised that I’m not so pleased with myself/my life.
    While reading this article I suddenly became aware of how serious these aspects are in our life. Fortunately, I have not reached the highness of these diseases, but I was making rapid progress towards them.
    It is so easy to write down our problems, to be aware of the fact that we are really affected by them and it is so hard to leave talking and begin acting…There is a huge difference. This is my real concern.
    Thank you very much for the information. It helped me a lot.

    Ravine Hotel says:
    July 30, 2012 at 12:09 am
    Life’s hands you difficulties so you can learn from them. People who have really easy lives fall apart when bad things happen because they have never learned how to cope or let things roll off their backs. Everything, even very Depression, can be used to learn better coping skills and to develop wisdom and perspective about life that will help you deal with many difficulties in the future. Whatever doesn’t destroy you can serve to make you stronger.

    Lilano says:
    January 28, 2013 at 11:21 am
    Although I like the sentiment, is it wishful thinking? Since the first breakdown, I have started to feel more fragile and prone to cracks.

    ircurts says:
    May 19, 2012 at 10:45 am
    Having suffered from mental illnesses all my life I can see how it has affected my physical health. I had no idea that there was such a link between depression and diabetes and heart disease.
    I was diagnosed with diabetes nearly 5 years ago when I went into the emergency room with a blood sugar of 450. About 4 years later I had my first heart attack and then again about a year after that I had another heart attack.
    I knew that I suffered from PTSD, anxiety and major depression but that second heart attack (and suicide attempt) was the wake up call I needed to find some meaningful help for mental improving my mental health. About two weeks out of the hospital from the second heart attack I started to call around for affordable (free) mental health resources and found none. I became so disappointed and eventually worked myself into a panic attack.
    Panic attack lead me back to the emergency room and I was at risk of another heart attack with pulse racing well over 120 beats per minute. From the ER I was referred to a free mental health crisis center and am doing much better after my 6 day stay.
    Today I eat better and exercise fairly regular. I am actually loosing weight, have practically cured my own type II diabetes and all my cholesterol levels are approaching a healthy level.
    The link with depression (and mental illness in general) to me was mostly that I didn’t care enough about life so I just sat around waiting for it to end. I ate one large meal before bed but nothing the rest of the day. I never exercised and refused to do even simple household chores. I had thought the cause of diabetes and heart disease was very much the mental condition but never realized how much deeper the link was until I read this post.
    Again thanks for this information.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    May 21, 2012 at 10:27 pm
    Hi, ircurts -
    I’m glad to hear you’ve made so much progress with these serious health problems. I continue to be amazed at how widespread the effects of depression and other mental disorders are on the body. I guess a lot of the surprise is due to the strange idea we learn that the mind and body are separated, when they are, in fact, so intimately connected through the nervous system and the constant back-and-forth flow of information. I’ll be writing more about this soon and hope you’ll share more of your experience and insight as well.

    andyking @ emedoutlet says:
    December 28, 2011 at 3:26 am
    I am having unexplained body pain for more than 5 years and I am a victim of depression since last ten years. After reading your post, i feel my pain may be the side effect of my depression. I am treating it with exercise and Yoga. I am feeling better and getting better. It’s a long process, i will have to continue for ver long.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    December 30, 2011 at 9:17 pm
    Hi, Andy -
    I recently wrote another piece on depression and pain – fibromyalgia – but it’s in the newsletter, not the blog. I think you have the right approach. Pain that can’t be explained by any specific physical cause is often linked to a mood disorder like depression.
    All the best to you – John


    How Depression Spreads
    by John Folk-Williams

    Depression spreads through the closest relationships almost like a communicable disease. I learned the hard way that the illness didn’t happen to me alone. It happened to my children, my friends, and most of all to my wife.

    The pull of depression took me away from her and everyone else. I often felt I was choosing to be alone in order to feel better or to escape situations that seemed too painful to bear. Most of the time, though, I was driven by depression and had little choice.

    I may have felt some comfort by being alone, but it didn’t help me get better in the long run. Isolation only deepened depression and imposed a cost on my family. They were exposed to the risk of “catching” it through the changes it brought about in our relationships.

    Brain and Human Connection

    The psychological and emotional damage became clear to me in time, but I had no idea that the brain itself was being changed by the loss of human contact.
    Like every other aspect of depression, its effect on relationships is also reflected in distortions of neuron circuits that are essential to the way we function.

    Researchers say we’re hard-wired to be social beings. Much of the complexity of the brain developed through the need to bond with other humans for survival. The brain loses nourishment just as feelings do when depression undermines the connections between people.

    It’s hard to think of a feeling that isn’t a response to interactions with others, whether in the moment or in the vividness of highly charged memory. You grow up learning to be a person through your family, friends, teachers. If you were left alone as a small child, you’d wither into sickness.

    Changing within Relationships

    Feelings are the stuff relationships are made of. Without the sharing of deep feelings, all you have are the dry habits of being together, going through the motions without deeper contact.

    When two people bond, there’s an exchange below the level of awareness that can reshape their emotional lives from within. They can become different people emotionally because of the influence they have on each other. That was a basic part of our relationship as well.

    We had become interdependent and needed each other, to some extent, to maintain a feeling of wholeness. Depression disrupted all that.

    Losing Trust

    My wife was forced into her own isolation by my withdrawal. She lost the chance to express her feelings when she needed so deeply to connect with me. I was cutting myself off from the emotional flow from her that had changed my life, and she too lost the ongoing influence of my presence.

    Even worse, she had no control over the ebb and flow of my feelings. I was completely unpredictable. Depression came and went. I shifted from total withdrawal to spontaneous closeness for no apparent reason.

    It was hard for her to trust the relationship, and she became by turns frustrated, hurt, angry.

    But how could this experience turn into depression?

    Learning to be Helpless

    A partner in that position feels more and more helpless. Neither the most loving or angriest behavior makes a difference. All the forms of intimacy and ways of talking that have brought two people closer over time now come to nothing.

    The hoped-for return of intimacy is unpredictable and has nothing to do with anything the undepressed partner might try.

    It’s the situation Martin Seligman describes in Learned Optimism. When there’s no connection between your effort to do something and the outcome, you may wind up retreating from the situation and giving up.

    My wife was left in this position. No matter what she did, I was the one to open the door or close it, and I was reacting to the coming and going of depression. The break between cause and effect often left her feeling helpless – and without hope. More than once, she would say in despair – I give up.

    Seligman calls this learned helplessness and sees it as a powerful factor in bringing on depression.

    At the same time this psychological damage is taking place, the enforced isolation starts affecting the neurochemistry of the brain, just as it does in the depressed partner. So as depression worsens and continues over time, the combined impacts on the brain, the sense of self and relationship mirror the varied causes of the illness.

    Not everyone with a depressed partner develops the illness, since there are so many other influences that come into play.

    But the danger of “catching” the illness is increased. In fact, living in a family with a depressed partner is now considered a risk factor for developing depression. I think it’s the impact of isolation that brings on the greatest risk.

    After all, if two people reshape each others lives through their closeness, then isolating from each other chokes off hope and the healing interdependence of love.

    What have you found in your own experience of living with depression, either your own or that of your partner or other family member you’ve been close to? Do you feel that depression can spread through these relationships?

    Sho says:
    June 16, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    I can’t believe how articulate you are, & how similar my story is to your wife’s.
    We’re in in of those dark periods now where i’ve asked him to move out for a while & focus on himself because i felt I had ” caught” depression & simply couldn’t cope, & that was having a negative impact on him too cos he was blaming himself. Even needing space for myself to get back on track made me feel guilty though because I know, and I’m terrified, that isolation is the worst thing for depression. It’s been a breather for me not to be around him everyday but j had hoped to be able to love him again & that’s not happening because the brain needs intimacy & he is still not able to provide it.
    Thank you for your post, it really helped me. I have been feeling like I’m doing everything wrong & no one can help, this has normalized what’s going on & given me a little boost to keep trying.

    Jessi says:
    June 9, 2013 at 2:34 pm
    My husband was diagnosed with anxiety and depression a couple years back. I had to have him committed after he told me he was fantasizing about killing me and then himself. He got some needs which worked wonders and after 2 weeks, he said something to me that he had never said in 7 years of marriage “I had a great day”. I sobbed I was so happy. He had since stopped taking his meds but still finds release and happiness in yoga, playing music with his band and taking photos. Unfortunately this leaves me always on egg shells and with no emotional support of my own.I can’t burden him with my feelings nor does he seem to recognize that myself and or kids have emotional needs which are of our own which only leads to me taking care of everyone and without a partner.the worst part is I can say nothing about it because it will send him into a tailspin.
    I am trying to get through this as my vow to support him in sickness and in health is important. I love him deeply but lately I have found myself not wanting to be around anyone,I talk to no one and I hope every second of every day that I an wake that

    Noch Noch | be me. be natural. says:
    January 18, 2012 at 6:34 am
    it also dragged my fiance down. he became hopeless and frustrated esp as he’s a positive person. when everyday i just wanted to die he didn’t know what to do. he became angry
    we were fortunate, he came to see my psychologist too who taught him about depressio and to identify that the depressed me isn’t really me. slowly he was able to distance himself from being affected even though he took care of me
    Noch Noch

    John Folk-Williams says:
    January 22, 2012 at 12:19 am
    Hi, Noch Noch -
    Hopeless and frustrated are the right words for so many partners who see their loved ones disappear into severe depression. The film Helen, that I’ve mentioned here a couple of times, gives a very realistic portrait of the husband of a suicidally depressed woman. Depression puts every relationship to the test, and it’s a great thing when two people can come through it together. You two are indeed fortunate.

    Liz says:
    January 17, 2012 at 5:17 pm
    You have a gift John. Thank you for sharing what you have been through. For me your life experience is invaluable to learning the ebb & flow of depression when it comes to my partner. Right now, he is on a road to what we hope is long lasting recovery. However, I’m always on guard for signs. I’m not sure if that is healthy or not but it’s our reality. I’ve thought about “catching” depression especially when we were going thru troubled times. Looking back, I definitely was despondent but I don’t attribute it to his depression but to my reaction to the circumstances at the time. Maybe it’s all the same thing. Maybe I was depressed…I know it was the darkest time of my life. But now it’s all good, beautiful and healthy.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    January 22, 2012 at 12:08 am
    Hi, Liz -
    I’m glad to hear that things are still going so well. The doubts are natural for you and your husband. Recovery never goes in a straight line. There are always problems along the way, but you both seem to have learned how to get through the worst times. There are a lot of ways depression can spread. Living day after day with an unresponsive, withdrawn partner almost proved too much for my wife in more than one period of our marriage. She definitely had her depressed and hopeless spells as part of her reaction to my condition. It’s hard for either partner since each feels powerless to change things for the better.
    All my best to you both.

    Wendy Love says:
    January 15, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    Oh my goodness you do have a way of writing about what you experience! I understand and have probably experienced much of what you said.
    I am so glad you emphasized how damaging isolation is. I try to fight it, try to ‘come out of myself’ for awhile but oh some days are harder than others. But I never thought of it affecting my husband in the way you suggested. I just feel guilty that I don’t have the desire to get out and about and do things and have people over more often. My husband is quite shy and so unless I initiate social contacts, they don’t happen for him.
    But even when I am in the mood to socialize, my husband has mixed feelings because he knows about the ‘fallout’ I go through after being with people…usually total exhaustion for about three days. It is bittersweet.
    But the things you have said have encourged me to try and get out a little more…. thanks for that.

    Judy says:
    January 15, 2012 at 9:50 am
    John, you’ve done such a great job at describing this – at least, it pretty much tells my own experience, too. While my family probably probably has some genetic tendency toward depression, both of my sons have been dealing with it most of their lives and eventually, my husband “caught” it, although it may not have been 100% from me. The isolation is really the most damaging, I think – inability or refusal to communicate. Speaking from the depressed person’s point of view, sometimes the partner can make it very difficult to talk about the depression because of preconceived ideas about it or simply fear of what it might mean. The depression can produce an angry response in the partner, which can then generate it in the depressed person, and on and on we go. And, of course, the more angry we get and can’t express it, the more depressed we become. I think what saved us was years of couples therapy. I also got help for my sonsp; the older of the two is on his second divorce, partly due to his depression for which he, for some reason, does not get adequate treatment. I feel badly about that, but it’s ultimately out of my control at this point – I can just say so much, the rest is up to him. I’m hoping it doesn’t spread to my grandson.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    January 16, 2012 at 10:57 pm
    Hi, Judy -
    One difference between now and the time I was growing up is that depression is a well-known problem that people talk about and can get help for. The world – and my family – were so silent and uninformed about such things a few decades ago. But there’s still the tendency to blame and isolate the depressed person in a family. I think that has the paradoxical effect of making others in the household more vulnerable to depression, even as they shun the whole idea and stigmatize one person. Blaming strikes me as the soul’s quarantine, drawing a fake boundary for self-protection. Refusing to talk about it seems so damaging all around. I know the decision to get help can be imposed on anyone, but if they don’t take care of themselves, that increases the damage for everyone else.

    Maria says:
    January 15, 2012 at 9:18 am
    I love the phrase “the dry habits of being together”. We have a lot going on in my family and I suspect that unacknowledged depression is one of the problems. I remember experiencing a pull that I could not understand when I was growing up. I felt smothered and abandoned at the same time. I knew I had to raise myself because no one was there. I also found that all of my efforts did not gain any traction and made no difference. Because the situation was fairly extreme I knew it wasn’t right but I had no validation from anyone – and I sought help – I fought to retain some optimism, sometimes successfully sometimes not. I was very confused, but kept persisting not knowing why I was. It felt like a matter of life-or-death, which sounds very dramatic, but the I how I perceived it, and still do.
    I think you make a good observation about social interaction and brain development. Our differences and things we do not understand activate our brains and help us to develop. I was very restricted but books became my social companions and helped through that difficult time.
    Thank you for this wonderful article, which I am pleased to pass on.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    January 16, 2012 at 10:41 pm
    Hi, Maria -
    In some ways your childhood sounds like mine. I can especially relate to the feeling that your efforts “did not gain any traction and made no difference.” I kept expecting responses but didn’t get them – or rather I didn’t get any that focused on me. I had the sense that my parents were talking to some other kid who was different from me. So I worked at getting their attention more and more by acting the way I thought they expected me to act. Nothing made much difference, though. Persisting but not knowing why, as you describe it, seems the only choice kids have.
    Thanks for your comments – – they’re very helpful.


    Making Decisions When Depressed
    by John Folk-Williams ·

    Like so many, I experience depression in various forms, yet each in its own way knocks out the decision control center in my mind. At times, I scramble in anxiety and can’t focus enough to pick out one among many possibilities. At other times, I don’t care about choosing – or anything else for that matter – and I let the alternatives fall where they may. Or I make all kinds of decisions, even life changing ones, but none of them seems like a choice. Each one is do-or-die. If I fail to do it, I’ll go right over the edge.

    Varieties of Indecision

    Depression isn’t one thing but a series of moods along a continuum from mild to severe. I used to move regularly with this perverse flow toward desperation. At the mild end, I might wake up knowing that something is wrong, feeling at once that everything is a bit off. I want and need to get a lot done, but I’ve lost my sense of where to begin and what’s most important. Then I get anxious.

    There’s a steady snowfall of tasks, floating free of deadlines and priorities. I feel the anxiety and tension about getting them all done, so I pick one out of the air – yes, I’ve got to do that! Then I realize after a few minutes of continuing worry that I’ve got to do that other one in a hurry too. So I grab that and start working. And then another and another. It’s like picking snow flakes out of the air, each melting at once, a drop of moisture in my hand. I’ve got to get everything done, but I’m going crazy because I can’t grab hold of anything.

    Then there are those times when I’ve felt nothing and could care less about making decisions. That’s happened most often when I’ve been on the antidepressants targeting serotonin, like Prozac. I think I’m fine because I don’t feel depressed, but then everything else, including close relationships, seemed far away and empty. I could drop them in a minute, and that might well seem to be the logical thing to do. The thinking brain can still function but cut loose from any tie to feeling. Decisions based on logic and indifference can be the most dangerous of all.

    But on the other end of the spectrum, where major depression waits, there is plenty of feeling, but it’s all desperation. My survival is at stake. I have to be alone and shut the door on everyone I know. I have to quit this job, or it’ll destroy my life. Seeing this therapist makes me sicker, and I’ll go off the deep end if I don’t quit. This relationship is a trap that’s ruining my life. There are only relentless drives here, and everything I do or desperately feel I need to do simply has to happen. I have no power of choice. It’s easy to argue that a decision has been made. But I can’t see it that way, any more than I would say that someone under torture makes a choice to confess and stop the unbearable pain.

    What Does It Take to Decide?

    The psychologist James Hillman wrote a book called Kinds of Power in which he presents an interesting take on decisions. This may sound a bit pedantic, but he looks at the root meanings of the word from a Latin verb meaning to cut or to kill. Decision/decide shares this root with words like incision and homicide. Cutting away or killing off are useful metaphors because that’s what I have to do to pick one among many possibilities.

    Cut away the extraneous possibilities and narrow down to specific action that will accomplish something: here’s what to do, now do it. Choices must be made to keep life and mind moving. But to do that, I need a clear vision of what I want, confidence that I can do it and belief that I can improve my life by acting in this way. When depressed, those are exactly the qualities I know I don’t have.

    Depression brings the whole world inside me. I look at people and everything around me, and I’m not seeing anything but evidence of how bad I am. I’m dancing with my own nightmares. Even if I’m only mildly depressed and feel suspended amid a thousand possibilities, no one of which I can choose, I’m assuming that whichever I might pick will not take me anywhere. I’ll move in an endless circle.

    Or else I’ll feel nothing, and there is no point in wanting anything. I put on a good show, pass for happily adjusted to life but only see blankness ahead – if I take the trouble to look. And in the most desperate state of severe depression, I’m running for my life. The idea of choosing a different path doesn’t enter my mind.

    What’s common to all those ways of being depressed is an all-or-nothing thinking. Nothing good can result from what I do, and so there is no vision that I can choose of my own will. Everyone else is better than I am, and each seems a powerful presence that only makes me smaller still. Whatever I do will not work and only confirms the worst. All the creative possibilities I might see when I’m healthy become so many triggers of obsessive thinking.

    When I began to recover some years ago, I started with a single decision. I can’t explain how it happened when I was so close to believing that I should do the world a favor and just disappear. But something snapped. All I could hear in my mind, louder than any sound I knew, was NO, I won’t go there, and YES, I’m getting out of this. I will do it. It was more than a survival instinct, or fear of where I was headed. I had to push hard against the current that was forcing me in the wrong direction, and suddenly the strength and purpose were there. I felt in my bones that I did have a choice, and I’d better make the right one.

    Most people don’t have to make a decision like that. They can take self-respect for granted and get on with living. I guess people with severe depression have to work harder to master the most basic dimensions of life, to keep going and to kill of the impulse to stop.

    How are you doing at deciding things these days?

    guru says:
    June 4, 2014 at 1:01 am
    hi everyone,
    i am having problem in making decisions, for example if i am working on one thing, suddenly some one tells about some thing new then my mind will get attracted to it and i cannot concentrate on the work i am doing. because of this i am confused which one is my goal. and in which field i want to start my career. so can anyone help me how to decide which one is my goal….

    Fred says:
    April 5, 2014 at 7:58 am
    I’m posting in order to subscribe to followup comments.
    I’m 12 years into my recovery process and treatment for depression. I envy people who have loved ones willing to wait for them; I was very young (22) when I had my meltdown, and my ex-fiancée did not wait for me. I had left her for someone else in a desperate attempt to stop my pain; by the time I was clear-minded enough to realize what I had done, my ex had started seeing someone else and hated me. I’m still struggling to figure out how I let that happen.
    Hoping says in an earlier post that you have to realize you’re depressed. I definitely didn’t. I felt like me; it turns out I’ve had dysthymia probably since birth, so the major depressive episode just felt like I was more intensely me, if that makes any sense. I didn’t realize that life wasn’t like that for everyone. Every decision I made felt like a life or death matter that had to be dealt with immediately. I feel like I’ll never stop paying ythe price.

    Hoping says:
    April 8, 2014 at 4:22 am
    Hello Fred, I was one of them people who was willing to wait for my depressed Ex, She left me for another man in her desperate attempt to stop her pain. Waiting it hard when you know the one you love is ill and they dont!..and the damage they do can be bad. We in the end have to move on to protect our hearts. Like most of us here we fight that battle hopelessly trying to get the people we love to see they aren’t themselves and we all fail. I dont hate my ex i love her dearly always will, but i will never forget how worthless she made me feel. And i hope she finds the courage to find hersefls again. And im sorry you to had to suffer from this awful illness.

    Fred says:
    April 8, 2014 at 5:26 pm
    Hoping, thank you for your response, and thank you for trying to hold on. I think my former fiancée would have waited longer, but her parents were very much involved in her life and I believe tbey manipulated her via finances to give up on me. She was still financially dependent on them, so they had a trump card. That in no way alleviates my guilt.
    I wish she had known I was sick. I really do think she simply thought of me as an asshole who had wasted five years of her life. I loved her, desperately so, but my sickness made her feel a million miles away. When she repeated that her parents said I was “dragging her down with me”, it was over for me. They confirmed my worst fears.
    I wish her a happy life filled with love, but I wish it had been with me, or at least that we could have parted on happier terms.

    Hoping says:
    April 9, 2014 at 4:08 am
    Whats so hard when your trying to hold on is that from the outside it can look like a normal break up, but its far from it..your blind sided when someone with depression ends things. And it takes a long to to feel normal again. I know my ex lost her connection to me..but she turned on me was cold and indifferent. Now im not sure if i want to every see that stranger again. How long did it take you to become clear? And did you see everything for how it really was? Or was it still a skewed version of you reality? Again im sorry this illness ruins good things.

    Rachel says:
    January 17, 2014 at 6:45 am
    Whoever is reading this, I’m sure for most people it is a desperate hope to find an answer to what you are going through. I think this description of depression is the best I have found. I myself this morning was trapped in my own mind, which lead me here. These thoughts I describe are what I have decided may improve my life after reading this page.
    The biggest thing that has gone wrong is not the actual things that went wrong, although they were horrible to adjust to, but the loss of the ability to find happiness, hope and meaning. Or perhaps the ability to accept that what you do may no longer have a great deal of meaning, (for example your day job – or trying to find one if you are unemployed) but that is how your life is and when there is no practical alternative to try to believe that it is ok and that you need to be ok with yourself doing what seems like un-meaningful tasks.
    When you have no cause, it is very easy for people to try to help by telling you to find one. Of course there are many causes you would like to feel you believe in but maybe you aren’t quite attached to one yet in order for it to make a difference to how you value your life. Whether it be a faith, charity, person you love or passion (this is quite rare to find in a depressed state) I think the problem is that I don’t believe it will find you. Somehow you have to find it, even if you can’t physically go out perhaps you could find it in a book, on TV, online, another person you have contact with. Then you have to make contact with that cause – do something to feel part of it, whether it’s just a phone call, a letter or something more practical. After having a major passion and losing it through a series of bad events it makes sense for me to try to find a few little causes rather than one big one – without over complicating my life in a way that I can’t deal with when anxiety attacks or spreading my time between so many things that I have no sense of belonging. For some people it might be better to find just one cause, or sometimes I think it might be better for me to find a new one cause realising that if that one becomes difficult I will find another one. Everyone’s cause is different – but it should be your own, and not somebody else’s. You may be alone in your own mind, but you may not always be if you can let something else in.
    I hope this works. I’m off to find a cause for myself. Thanks to all the lovely people that have posted on this page.

    Kim says:
    December 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm
    First: Thank you John for setting up this page.
    I have been writing earlier on (below) about indecision due to depression during stressful situations. Reading through this page once again helps to remind me how bad off I was just a year ago.
    My summarization below is intended to point out some of the key aspects that have helped to redirect at least one “storied mind” back to his true and usual self. Perhaps these pointers may give some good insights of how to throw out the demon of depression hiding deep inside.
    The importance of moving on – I used to be stuck “in my bed, too immobilized to eat or even go to the bathroom”. It is very important to find a way to get the momentum back in life. To start thinking ahead rather than looking back. As painful or useless as it may seem to try moving on it will still have the reward of having taken action in it. And taking action means regaining control. Do not be afraid to ask for help to get a move on. Total entrapment in unsolvable situations or unmanageable circumstances is the slow strangling killer when facing a major depression.
    The importance of realignment – I used to “hesitate to make decisions because I’m afraid they will be wrong”. Clearly and without a doubt all important decision making while being depressed should be avoided. My experience with indecision is that life will graciously always give you more opportunities that will be there for you (yet again) when you are more ready to grab them. Realignment also has a great deal to do with changing life style, present life circumstances and/ or expectations on life. It is easier to find a daily sense of gratefulness when easing up on the goals and achievements.
    The importance of others – I used to feel “isolated, imprisoned in my apartment”. Let’s just face it. If heading into major depression it is vital to have others to rely on for support (not for decision making but for the sake of recovery). I do not believe there are many people that manage to “shape up” on own without the help of a supporting friend or relative. Isolation leads to entrapment and the best way then is to avoid remaining isolated. One obvious step to help break the spell of isolation is to understand that you are not alone and that there is help to find.
    The importance of faith – I used to feel completely lost and helpless. Somehow I cannot help but stressing how important it is to be able to find true faith in God. From then on you will always be heading somewhere, whatever achievements or failures in life that you struggle with are suddenly of minor importance, and you will never ever have to be alone again. Depression always seems to arise from losing faith in oneself. My point here is that lasting faith may actually be found elsewhere.

    As far as I know the only really important decision I had to make while being depressed was to “never give up”. And that was not even much of a decision.

    Alan says:
    October 1, 2013 at 12:24 pm
    I have to say this is the best explanation of feeling depressed that I’ve ever read. I couldn’t have put it better myself, I even recently penetrated the ‘saying NO to ending it all’ barrier, but It doesn’t get get much easier, in fact i don’t have the ‘ending it all’ crutch to lean on any more, I have to do this the hard way.
    For those that have never experienced severe depression, this is what it’s truly like, your doctor is unlikely to understand to the extent this author does, and indeed the British NHS service understood depression so badly that it only drove me closer to ending it all when I was at my worst.
    My advice; seek to understand your mind yourself, and try your best to love those around you, that will keep the hope if a better life alive. Also, confront your demons, it will seem impossible at first but once you take the first step it can only get better. (in my case i had to confront my father about childhood emotional issues)
    Despite how you might feel there are understanding people out there but don’t be fooled there are a lot of uneducated people who cannot and will not understand your condition, avoid them if you must and seek out those who are a little more emotionally sensitive.

    Hoping says:
    September 27, 2013 at 3:38 am
    This is helpful to know, but only if your aware your depressed. My ex partner broke up with me afew months ago yet she’s depressed but in denial of it obviously not aware of it at all. It’s her reality how do I question her reality against my own?

    may says:
    August 20, 2013 at 8:31 am
    really i learn alot from all of you.iam so sorry for that and i am now in the same situation since 20 day my boyfriend he broke up with and go away.but my question please if the dispressed pesron not come back why they have to go doctors and take medicine i was hopping he will back when he is will be ok and good?

    oxy says:
    August 4, 2013 at 8:14 pm
    this is my biggest problem i ever had in my entire life.. i cant make up my mind on the right time and most difficult part of my life is when i didn’t make up my mind on time realize me that i made a mistake which make me very upset , disappointed n very sad…if you guy’s know what can i do for rid off from this situation plz plz plz tell me i really need inspiration…

    Donna-1 says:
    August 5, 2013 at 2:22 am
    Yeah, this can be a big problem. I deal with the same issue. I think depression makes me more sensitive to failure, so I hesitate to make decisions because I’m afraid they will be wrong. Part of the problem is, there isn’t always a lot of time to make the decision (whatever it is). So by the time I weigh all the positives and negatives and possible consequences, the optimum moment for deciding has already passed, and often it is just plain too late. I’ve missed an opportunity. I’ve lost out on something good, or I’ve lost a chance to experience something fun, or people have moved on in their lives and left me behind. Sometimes, you just have to make a leap of faith and go with your gut instinct and hope for the best. If you get too bogged down in what you “should” or “could” or “ought” to do, that can actually just become a way of avoiding the responsibility of making a decision. You wait too late and then you don’t have to decide. Then you get mad at yourself for NOT taking the leap and it just makes you more depressed. Or at least this is what happens to me. It is one of those vicious cycles. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But if you go ahead and make your move, even if you fail you will know you tried your best.

    Brittany says:
    April 26, 2013 at 2:54 am
    This is my current downward spiral. It’s terrible..a terrible rut, “All the creative possibilities I might see when I’m healthy become so many triggers of obsessive thinking.” So, then I ignore everything till it builds so much that I’m waiting for something to crash and burn so I don’t have to do it myself. It’s like I want it to all end and go away so I have a way out and I can recuperate and start again fresh without all the obligatory sh*t in my life which drives my depression incessantly. bah.
    Thanks for the article..much of what you describe is how I feel 100% of the time. It sucks. My counselor called it “Turning a Corner” when I must make a decision to a path that I want to try…which is incredibly hard for me :(. The unknown is scary. I dunno, why I’m responding, just want to say, I relate to everything in the article and everyone’s responses.

    David says:
    April 24, 2013 at 8:36 am
    Hi Jon,
    Great article, I too have hit rockbottom again in the space of 8 months and what you wrote above struck a massive cord with me. I hate the fact the depression I have effects me and family and this time has me questioning if still I love my partner anymore on top of my other issues. I don’t want to say anything or do anything yet until I’m in a better place, but I’m not sure I’ll ever get to a better place again.
    Though I don’t want to commit suicide if I had a heart attack today I would be a happy man.

    Jess says:
    April 4, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    In the past I too had a very difficult time making decisions when under a great deal of stress or anxiety. I found if I did force myself to make a decision, many times I would come to regret that decision later. Waiting until you are in a better place to make a decision, especially an important one, makes good sense. Thanks for posting!

    mike says:
    April 11, 2013 at 7:33 am
    I’m terrified of my situation that I feel is quickly getting worse. Severe depression due to long term unemployment, now broke, having to move out of my apartment and return to my conservative, small town to share a condo with my 91 yr old mother. At 54 and clueless about what I can do for employment I’m feeling panick, grief, shame, intense regrets but no choice left. My life feels ended. Doom and gloom surrounds me. Isolated, imprisoned in my apartment and beginning to fade awasy physically. I’ve had many depressions but was able to ride them out, now I have no choice but uprrot and relocate again, lost my house in the last 3 years so I’m spending time in any fashion to find comfort and distraction from the reality and torment I feel but can’t avoid the future choices. Many, many hours spent contemplating the utitmate solution but too frightened to lift a finger on that as well. Trapped and without hope, direction or sleep.

    Jon says:
    April 13, 2013 at 10:45 pm
    You incapsulated the highly concentrated period of depression that may in fact be reflected in many who have survived the poisons of MDD for so long. OMG your list describing your mid life march through humiliation, loss and fear while suffering the constant burn of untreated depression was really spot on. Or I should say it resinated with me very much. I hold out hope and I wish you every opportunity for good and healing. Keep going, please… that’s what we do, right?

    Robyn says:
    March 22, 2013 at 11:03 pm
    I was searching the web to find an answer to my question, “why can’t I make a decision” and I found your post and read it and all the comments. We all seem to be in this black boat together, weathering a storm of anxiety, self doubt and indecision. I want to be part of life but I also want to cut myself off from everything. I lay in my bed, too imobilized to eat or even go to the bathroom.
    I am not sad or suicidal, I feel nothing. I start an interest and even though I want to continue I have no motivation to do so. The only things I do are things I must because the shame I would experience in the eyes of others would be too much to bear. Like another commenter, I also feel it is contrary to my actual nature. In the good times I am born leader. i will read more of your posts to try to find the answer mean’t for me. I like your style of writing, there is a kindness in it.

    KM says:
    January 24, 2013 at 10:06 am
    I guess now’s not the time to decide to pursue some sort of permanent birth control…?

    Me says:
    November 24, 2012 at 3:23 pm
    I just reread this post and found new meaning. Fear of making decisions, procrastination, fear of failure remain with me . But somehow when all seems lost, I decide not to give up and decide to go on for another day.

    Jeanie says:
    December 2, 2012 at 10:50 pm
    Yes you are right – giving up is suicide. And what’s the point of that. So yes I have once again raised myself up. There was something you wrote that has really stuck in my mind. We spend so much time “cursing” our depression and you said we must learn to live with it as part of who we are, not as if its a demon sitting on our shoulder (my words latter part!!). We need to take in into ourselves and really feel that it is part of our living composition, in our mind, flesh and bones. As with sleeping eating laughing crying, depression is part of the series, more some days and less others.
    I am trying to include it as part of me rather than an external force.
    Thank you John for your crisp clarity despite the mind-befuddling roaring and subsiding of depression.

    Enigma says:
    January 24, 2013 at 8:31 am
    I wonder for how long I can live this get by life,Sooner or later it will cease to be even an option and then that another day that I’ve been living will not come.Two choices are all I have-either get out of here or get out of life.I’ve already resisted making any decision for over a month,but this is killing me now.The sheer worthlessness of my being is weighing heavily on my conscience.Got,only days to decide now,but thoughts are so messed up that I can’t think clearly,if I choose life,i have to get out of here.

    Jeanie says:
    November 12, 2012 at 8:08 pm
    Hi John
    Just found your site. You speak to the heart with your talent for words. You have a gift. Can’t write much now – too detached. But want to say what happens when over and over and over again you make the decision to lift yourself up and for awhile life is moving at a nice, manageable pace.; but then down you go again and again and again.. until there is no strength anymore to get up, to crawl away from the darkness. You know you will only return once again so why bother. This has been my pattern for 20 years and I am just too tired now, too worn out.. and feeling guilty and ashamed to burden readers with my despair.

    Jon says:
    March 22, 2013 at 9:51 am
    As much as I wish us both renewed capacity to get up again and take our place in this amazing experiment, I totally understand the exhaustion you describe. I’d like to reach out and hold you up until you’re able again.
    peace and strength to you,

    Jeanie Bailey says:
    March 25, 2013 at 3:02 am
    Hi Jon
    You hold people up every day with your lucid and truthful words. I have read many web-pages on depression over the years and yours is the only one that reaches those dark pits where depression resides.
    You have helped me realise that deperssion is part of me and not outside me; it is not a dark force that descends; its a darkness that lives within. It can’t be descarded so it must be part of the journey that is life. With that in mind I have started an exercise regime that has buffered the darkness and my life at this moment is content. I am living in this moment.
    So Jon you have reached out and you have held me up so I can reach this moment. We can’t ask for more than this. I will be depressed one day again but not now.
    I hope others may reach the realisation that depression is part of us. We can’t curse it. We can’t wring our hands and say why me. It just is as it is. We all feel suicidal at some point. We all reach points of utter exhaustion. We all have times where even having a shower is beyond our ability. I say to myself thats OK. This is me. I am where I am. Someday ahead I will be able to shower and feel the other parts of me that make me whole. Love to you all.

    Laura says:
    October 15, 2012 at 10:34 am
    Once, I was on the point of making a serious mistake. I wanted to break up with my boyfriend because I had accumulated too many details of his gestures, attitudes and behaviour towards a certain girl. I was so angry and so frustrated. I didn’t want to part with him because I really loved him. We have a five-year relationship. All I did was to cry and be indifferent to him, although he was acting normally, but I was so lucid and so rational. I was even searching for other reasons why I should leave him. I was also listening to sad music which made me feel even more horrible than I had felt. I think I was a sadist myself. I felt depressed for almost two weeks. He noticed that I wasn’t okay, and started asking me questions. I would avoid them. After so much pain my reaction would be to alienate from him. But I simply didn’t have the guts to leave him and tell him what I was thinking. Little by little, those thoughts left me, because I realised he was still loving me.
    Nevertheless, I am still predisposed to this kind of depression. Now I realise how much depression can change you if you allow it to do that. I felt as if I were a stranger myself. That pain needs a pause at some point, and you think that taking a decision at that very moment would change your life and be happy again. You have the impression that you’re right, but you are completely in the wrong. Maybe I am exposing myself to suffering and too much pain, but in the end I don’t have the courage to take up the responsibility of a wrong choice and I just leave it. Anyway, it is a dangerous method.
    Best regards.

    michele says:
    October 1, 2012 at 5:07 am
    The two articles I read-the one about relationships and this one about decision making with depression really spoke to me. My husband decided just before our wedding that he wanted to move back home, which is overseas to Israel. I’ve always had the tendency toward depression, but as our departure came closer I was struck with a nasty bout of it. I saw a psychologist, marriage counselor, and began taking Zoloft just to be able to be alone in a room without the “what ifs” swarming in my head and tears swimming in my eyes.
    What’s strange is that I never felt like I decided to move- I could have called off the wedding, not filled out the paperwork, not packed up/sold my belongings, not boarded the plane, and I could have left at any time, but I never really decided-this is it, I’m going to live abroad, I’m going to make this work.
    Even though I logically know that postponing making a decision until I feel better is the best idea in my situation, waiting has its own set of “whatifs.” I’m constantly reminded that I’m already 30 and if I ever want to have a family…
    And I don’t even trust myself in my feelings about my husband. I’m currently so resentful of him (feeling like he forced me to move here, not accepting my hand in the decision), that I would be relieved to just go back to the U.S. But there’s no doubt that I would miss him, regret it…
    He is trying to be patient with me while I blurt out negative feelings, but he’s anchored his feet… he says he staying here no matter what I decide.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    October 5, 2012 at 10:57 am
    Hi, Michele -
    What a terribly difficult situation to be in when you’re depressed. I’m not sure if it would help you, but the method of focusing on what you most value rather than the reasons and what if scenarios might simplify making a decision. It’s the approach I describe in the latest post on Inner Beliefs vs Outer Action. The best motives for choosing are rooted in the things we value most deeply. This is something I’ve been learning from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and is a broader view than the one I had in mind while writing this post on making decisions.
    My best to you -

    Vernell says:
    September 19, 2012 at 1:57 am
    As a woman whose husband has been diagnosed with depression and who has now had him leave me with our 8 month old son for a new woman and life so unlike we built together, Im beginning to wonder if his decision to sell our house and divorce should be stalled until he is 100% well.
    His medication has been doubled for the last 2 weeks but he is still drinking heavily on them but seems clear headed and is adamant this is what he wants…He doesnt love me, wants out of our marriage and wishes to set up home with his new woman who also has mental health issues.
    Its so hard for me to know what is best to do as he is constantly telling me he doesnt love me and we need to sell up etc, but this has come out of the blue, and he is living a life all of the sudden that is so unlike him and is actually a life he would criticise others for leading.

    Daffa says:
    June 6, 2012 at 10:15 pm
    Thank you. I feel relieved I am not alone with the torture of making a decision under duress.

    Sriram says:
    March 4, 2012 at 11:26 pm
    Superb piece. What strategies does one follow to overcome this?

    John Folk-Williams says:
    March 6, 2012 at 12:34 pm
    That’s a hard one to answer. Usually, I try to avoid any big decision when I’m depressed. At times I’ve tried a mechanical approach of listing out criteria, pro’s and con’s etc. The problem with that is that there is a crucial emotional component to every important decision. If it doesn’t feel right – despite all the rational reasons for doing it – you won’t want to follow that decision. When depressed, of course, I either feel nothing at all (so worrying about the decision seems pointless) or so despairing that every option seems miserable and hopeless. Not much fun.

    Kim says:
    May 15, 2012 at 11:56 pm
    I also like this blog a lot and can relate strongly to almost each and every experience described on account of depression.
    I am presently having my second hurdle in life with regards to this immobilizing condition. It is a very much real and terrifying experience that somehow also feeds on itself and that practically makes me unable to sleep more than a few hours a night and makes me toss around in shivers/ shakes of anxiety.
    Right now I am stressed to make a crucial decision if I should go ahead and buy an apartment that has been booked for purchase andI have extreme difficulties in coming to a firm decision. The indecision makes me stay mindlocked rather than to be able to move on. Letting the deadline pass without having reached a clear decision is equal to an avalanche of despair and regret. Any decision made in time (yes/ no) cause immediate fear of having come to the right or the wrong decision and so I reevaluate again for a new decision.
    Since this is a flat that we will forcibly be locked down with for at least 5 years the emotional ingredient is very important – and as explained it is either non-existent or randomized. It is impossible for me to judge clearly from the present point of view and it is driving me insane. And time is running short.
    From where I am at right now I am not even sure if I can even make it to any appointments to even sign the papers if I go for ‘yes’. Indeed it may be very awkward.
    The ‘do-or-die’ in having to decide when you are really not well is deteriorating me as I cannot snap out thinking about of it – all of the time – and even if I am reasoning to let things be/ to let it go / I bounce right back into the decision making thought process sooner or later. When in this kind of mental condition everything becomes a trap. There are no solutions and it is easy to spark off other negative evaluations.
    Thus from my present point of view I find it downright dangerous to have to make major decisions when heading for a more severe depression since it will always come out random or not at all in the end because of the emotional turmoil/ or blankness, the confusion and physical exhaustion. But what if you must choose and are in a hurry to do it (we are talking about hundreds of thousands of $ paid for someone that is not rich)?

    John Folk-Williams says:
    May 21, 2012 at 8:36 pm
    Hi, Kim -
    You convey the anguish all too well, and I’ve been trapped in that do-or-die decision mode too many times. In the situation you describe, it sounds like there is no option not to decide – is there? Letting the deadline pass is the same as saying no?? What I’ve been training myself to do is to just face the fear and walk through it. The fear by itself is only that, and I find that the real-world consequences are never as terrible as the anguish and panic – or the intense shame of not deciding. It sounds too rational and pat as I write that down, but in a way the fear is the problem I’m facing, not the decision. And I’ve let fear run my life for too long. Maybe it takes a certain amount of fear-bred disaster to get to the point I’m at now. I’m sorry it’s so impossible for you, and I hope you’ve been finding something to guide you through.

    kim says:
    May 28, 2012 at 10:53 pm
    Thank you for your reply. I am in dire need of encouragement.
    Just want to share on what happened after the deadline expired. Shed some light on it for others to read…
    I cowardly let my wife steer our steps, reasoning that she would see things clearer than me. I believe that she did choose my health over finanical gains and status. Thus I feel like I did not give her any choice. From that moment on it had to become a sacrificed opportunity, a “no”.
    For me things are now in a shutdown, motivation lost, no future perspectives, self pity. Depression is still there but the acute anxiety is gone leaving room for apathy. I admit serious regrets for not facing my fears. For not being decisive. For abandoning my post in the midst of battle.
    Today my therapist ask ‘so what has changed?’. I reply ‘nothing’. My wife says ‘everything’. Feel like still stuck in a hole unable to see anything else but rainy clouds far above. She is already a bird in the sky.
    It is impossible to know what would have turned out better or worse, but it seems at least that even if ‘no’ in this case was a bad decision we do continue to live in the present and I am to some degree relieved and did not force change upon myself (and others) at a time most vulnerable.
    The spell of depression is not broken and confidence is at an all time low. But life goes on regardless. No one died. No one was injured. Cash still in the bank, even if the heart is poor.
    If anything, through this ordeal, it has brought me closer to God.

    Donna-1 says:
    February 20, 2012 at 1:56 pm
    Many days (they flow into each other) I wander from what absolutely must be done, like laundry, to absolute immobility, like lying in bed. The time spent in bed might even be worth something if I could sleep. But I can’t. I’m either trying desperately to keep from thinking, or I’m obsessing about conversations I want to have with other people but never will. Often, these “mental conversations” end darkly. I am almost seduced by the pleasurable fantasy of “disappearing,” as you say. And there are many ways to disappear besides suicide – holing up in my apartment and refusing to answer the phone; packing up my stuff and moving to Arizona; refusal to visit any of my usual haunts and therefore setting myself up to be forgotten, and even delivering myself over to a punishing diet and exercise wellness routine. Some people disappear into books, some into gambling, some into drugs. There’s a whole smorgasbord to choose from.
    I’m afraid to interact with people and society, but what happens if I “disappear?” Would I be any happier or would it just be more bed-time obsessing?

    John Folk-Williams says:
    February 23, 2012 at 10:39 pm
    Hi, Donna -
    It’s so good to hear from you again! It sounds like you’ve had a hard time recently, and I hope you’re feeling better. I must say as a veteran of disappearing that I wouldn’t recommend it. Sometimes, it is sooo tempting, like a beckoning paradise of simplicity and contentment. But I’ve always found it to be a dangerous Siren song that only leads me into more pain – and shame.

    Wellness Writer says:
    September 28, 2009 at 11:19 pm
    Dear John,
    Terrific piece. Yes, I know how difficult it is to make decisions during a depression. In some cases, I learned that I was better off not making them because my judgment was impaired.
    In other cases, I couldn’t seem to make a decision no matter how hard I tried. And perhaps some of that was because I had become terribly confused about what I wanted or thought I wanted.
    What’s interesting to me is that an inability to make a decision is contrary to my nature when I’m well. One of my best skills is my analytical ability, and I like making decisions. So…it was always so disturbing to be so wishy-washy.

    john says:
    September 29, 2009 at 7:52 pm
    Thank you! I know well what you mean about acting against your nature when depressed. I have endless experiences with that, all of them things I wish I could just forget.
    Holding off from deciding sounds exactly right. Trying when you have half a brain to work with only adds to the torment.
    All my best to you -

    Wendy Love says:
    September 27, 2009 at 5:10 am
    Here is another article on decision making and depression which may shine some more light http://www.bphope.com/Item.aspx?id=592

    john says:
    September 29, 2009 at 7:47 pm
    Wendy -
    I finally had a chance to look at the article you mention. People had to make choices under (mild) stress and went with the safer one, associated with smiling faces. That makes sense – though that sort of stress – momentary distraction while trying to make the choice – doesn’t capture the sustained impact of depression. Retreating to safe ground when the mind isn’t free to do its work sounds like a good strategy.
    Thanks for the reference.

    Ellen says:
    September 25, 2009 at 2:16 pm
    Hi John,
    I um ‘suck’ at making decisions. Recently I was trying to decide on a therapy method and therapist, and ended up just going with whatever was closest to hand. Not the best way.
    However, I also found that sometimes I would try to hedge my discomfort with decisions by doing a lot of research – for me, research can lead to endless detours and procrastination and in the end, I would still have to make a decision. I spent about two years trying to decide on a brand of car – in the end, I just went with a Honda because I’d had one before and liked it. A lot of research and agonizing wasted really.
    Now what I’m trying to do more is to discern what I really want – what is it I really like, emotionally? That’s kind of a small voice inside, not so easy for me to hear. But that way, at least I choose something I genuinely desire, whether in the end it was the best choice or not. Kind of trying to respect my own personality.
    Now, what do I really want for dinner, truly? Perhaps pasta…with something green. Yes, that will make my heart glad!

    john says:
    September 26, 2009 at 4:38 pm
    Hi, Ellen -
    That sounds so familiar – two years for a car is impressive. Of course, you don’t want to rush into anything. I’m busy at every procrastination sale and always come home laden with bargains.
    But you’re so right, you have to get clear about what you want. If only that were a simple thing to do! It’s embarrassing how long it takes me to figure out what I’m really trying to say in these posts. At least I’m able to keep asking that question and staying with it until I’ve cleared away all the digressions. But it takes way too much time, given all the other things I’m trying to do.
    I like that idea of respecting your own personality. Perhaps that’s a key part of this inability to decide – not accepting the legitimacy of your own wants and desires but trying to import them from somewhere else – like research into what other people think you should want.
    Best of luck – I hope you enjoyed that dinner.

    Louise says:
    September 25, 2009 at 10:01 am
    I am finding your blog most helpful and enjoyable; and, I agree, you have a great writing style!
    I wish to share a book that caused a shift for me: Mystic Path to Cosmic Power by Vernon Howard (or any work by Vernon Howard). Yes, it’s a corny title, but it contains authentic answers to worry, heartache, and suffering.
    An excerpt: “We must see what happiness is not. It is not exterior activity; that is merely a distraction from inner unhappiness. What, then, is happiness? The answer is not complex. Happiness is simply a state of inner freedom. Freedom from what? With a bit of self-insight, every individual can ancer that question for himself. It is freedom from the secret angers and anxieties we tell no one about. It is freedom from fear of being unappreciated and ignored, from muddled thinking that drives us to compulsive actions, and later, to regrets. It is freedom from painful cravings that deceive us into thinking that our attainment of this person or of that circumstance will make every right. Happiness is liberty from everything that makes us unhappy….it is formless; it cannot be fitted into the frame of our demands. We insist upon this wife or husband, this career or achievement, this home, this secrity, excitement, or distraction. Even if we get our demand, we are no happier than before; we have merely covered our unhappiness. It is still there, and it will inevitably show itself when change occurs. We must break the frame altogether, and just let life happen; then, we enter an amazing new world whose existence we never before suspected.”
    “For a happy life is joy in the truth.” (Augustine)

    john says:
    September 26, 2009 at 4:28 pm
    Hello, Louise -
    That is a beautiful passage. It’s amazing how many writers I keep discovering who’ve been around for a long time and have inspired millions.
    Thank you for letting me know about his work and also for your kind words about the blog.
    All my best -

    Wendy Love says:
    September 24, 2009 at 7:44 am
    This is so good, so well-written and so true! The way you break down the process of thinking and deciding and ruminating etc. impresses me. I tend to be a bottomline kind of writer and your details add so much. I decide when I am well, then regret when I am not well. One way or the other, it is a difficult process. I used to be very decisive and so being undecisive is a change which I have not yet adjusted to. Thanks for the challenging ideas.

    john says:
    September 25, 2009 at 10:44 pm
    Thanks, Wendy -
    You’re too kind! It interests me that you changed from being very decisive. I went through perhaps a similar shift at midlife as measured by Meyers Briggs. From being a very cocksure and decisive INTJ to an INFP – much less interested in reaching sharp conclusions as in exploring possibilities – often for far too long to get things done.
    Thanks for your comment.


    Talking to your partner
    To the Partners of Depressed Men
    John Folk-Williams Health Guide June 27, 2009

    I’ve been married for well over 30 years and spent most of that time in one phase or another of depression. My wife experienced a lot of pain because of my behavior, and we came close to splitting up more than once. From reading dozens of stories online, including many sent to my blog, I know that what happened to us is not uncommon – though the ending is often less happy than it was for us.

    The stories I read – mostly from women – tell of hurt, confusion, fear, anger and desperation at the sudden transformation they’ve seen in their partners. A loving spouse turns into an angry, withdrawn and sometimes violent person who blames his partner for causing the pain he feels. Most of the time, he refuses to say anything, other than words of abuse. Many isolate themselves, others actually leave for a time and return, some men leave for good. And they do everything they can to avoid looking deeply into themselves. I’m sorry to say I’ve been there, I’ve done that.

    If you’re going through this kind of agony with an intimate partner, I know from our experience that it is possible to survive and to restore a damaged relationship. But for us, it was by far the hardest and most demanding thing we’ve ever done, and there were many times when my wife was convinced there was no hope.

    I found one book that was especially useful in understanding what can happen to relationships under the influence of depression. That is Terrence Real’s I Don’t Want to Talk About It. Taking stories from his therapy practice as well as his own life, he details this kind of behavior specifically in men. He calls it covert or hidden depression, and that fit well with my own experience.

    For a great many years, I knew I had depression, but I thought that only meant I kept going through episodes of deep emotional bleakness. I did not realize how pervasive its effects could be in clouding and scattering my thinking, intensifying anxiety and stress, filling my mind with obsessive and even paranoid thoughts and completely destroying my self esteem. So I acted out, blamed my wife for what I felt until I could at last understand what depression really was.

    Then it was no longer covert at all but out in the open – a part of my daily awareness. At that point, I could begin to deal with it, and at last there was hope for my marriage.

    Julie Fast’s Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder is one of the best books I’ve found for understanding what my wife and I could do in order to save our relationship. Even though she writes about bipolar instead of depression, most of what she says is directly on point for other mood disorders. She focuses first on recognizing the illness and treating it – unlike many books which emphasize what the hurting spouse should and should not say or do. Her approach gives the big picture and helps the non-depressed partner avoid self-blame or imagine that she can bring about her partner’s recovery.

    The most important advice I could offer is to remember that you can’t change your depressed partner. It has to start with him. He has to recognize the problem and seriously start treatment. You can’t do that for him. After that there are many things you can do to help, but you also have to look out for yourself and get your own support.

    It’s possible for that loving partner to return and for two people to renew their closeness. It’s hard, but I know it can be done.


    Talking Honestly about Depression
    by John Folk-Williams

    I’ve always had trouble talking honestly about depression, in therapy or out. Even though much of its influence is gone, this remnant of depression is still holding on. I was always able to report the latest news to a therapist – I’m down at level 2 instead of up at level 8 (or whatever other shorthand you might use). And talking about history was not the problem. I could summon up all the turbulence and pain I’d gone through long ago from the safe distance of time.

    It was the here and now that stopped me. Telling anyone the full emotional truth of the present, as I was feeling it – especially the intense stuff – was next to impossible. The fear was that the words could not be formed without the emotions flowing with them, and it was the spontaneous rush of feeling that had to be prevented. Something in me always reacted faster than thought. It was more than a censor, it was a builder of strong barriers that walled the feelings in and me with them.

    That autopilot response hard to stop, and it worked with cold efficiency most of the time, especially in therapy. That’s supposed to be a refuge for healing as old poisons are purged from my present life. How much emotional truth of the moment was I able to get out? Let’s put it this way. If there had been a buzzer going off at every half-truth, that would have been the loudest and most frequent sound of the hour.

    It’s amazing that therapy has done me any good at all, but it has. I’ve always been able to talk about the past, even the worst moments, or about powerful dreams that force something into my awareness. These things provoked strong feeling, but however bad they’d been, they weren’t here and they weren’t now. If I did feel overwhelmed, about to cry – the door slammed shut at once.

    It wasn’t just the talking, it was letting the feelings roll through and find whatever physical expression they were after. Emotions need the outlet of the body to be complete and serve their purpose. Not so hard to do in private, though I can have plenty of trouble with that too. (Remember that Real Depressed Men Don’t Cry!) But facing a live person – the resistance was like biting into splintered wood to shut my mouth and crush the feeling into manageable size. That hurts!

    That wasn’t the end of it, for then I’d have this crowd of ticked-off feelings pounding in me to get out. There must be a law of physics about the conservation of emotional energy. It’s never destroyed but takes on different, more ghostly forms. I could never recognize them, but I’d always feel something strange happening. Each moment of denial put another to-do on the list of things I’d have to deal with later – that is, talk through. In the meantime, I had no clue when or how the stunted feeling would finally kick its way to the surface.

    Emotions like to be sociable. They need to get out there and be seen and heard by the people I’m closest to, most of all, of course, my wife. Letting the feeling be itself can only deepen those essential bonds. Whenever they did get through the walls, as happened every now and then, my wife and I would feel the intimate connection all over again. How else, except by that emotional presence, could anyone get to know who I am and trust the relationship we’ve formed together? If I stomp out fear or grief, I’m also refusing to reach out for help, not to mention love, and refusing to accept it.

    But all this holding back never had anything to do with common sense. It was about the deepest fear I’ve known, courtesy of severe depression. It was a soul-deep dread that intense feelings on the loose would release a terrifying force I’d been keeping in check. I didn’t know exactly what it was, but eventually I gave it a recognizable face. My own hideous and violent Mr. Hyde was waiting to spring free, and that I could not allow.

    Of course, I knew that was a crazy thing to believe – especially after all sorts of therapy and self-probing – but on a depressed and primitive level it felt like truth for many years. He was everything half human and monstrous that my depressed mind told me I must be. Chains and shackles were all that held him, not to mention round-the-clock surveillance.

    He’s not really there anymore, but the habit of holding him and every intense feeling in check hasn’t gone away completely.

    So talking about depression, which bundled this dread together with all the other symptoms, has never been easy. Nevertheless, I was able very slowly to learn the skills that let me see clearly what I was doing and stop the weirdness, on most days.

    So how’s your emotional truth level with a therapist or whoever you try to talk to about depression? On a scale of 1 to 10, you usually come in at … ?

    WonderingSoul says:
    October 7, 2009 at 6:05 am
    Just to say…
    Yes.. You are so right! Depression differs only slightly from person to person and its masks are few.
    Amazing then, that it is still so profoundly isolating.
    Hope you are well.

    john says:
    October 7, 2009 at 8:23 pm
    Who knows – maybe some day we’ll be able to enter a collective mind space and crack the masks forever. ;-)

    Louise says:
    October 5, 2009 at 1:43 pm
    Believe it is important to recognize and factor in innate characteristics of the personality such as being either an introvert or an extrovert, which has everything to do with the best therapy for depression. An extrovert may need talk therapy and the exchange; an introvert would probably do better being in nature, a walk in the woods or along a shoreline to clear the mind. Tools I’ve recently practiced with success in fighting depression are: putting space around my thoughts and watching them pass through without condemnation in recognition of my duality, that I am not my thoughts; and, doing something for another, expecting nothing in return. Getting my mind off myself, I find, is second only to laughter as a best medicine.

    john says:
    October 6, 2009 at 12:08 pm
    Hi, Louise -
    Those are great ideas, though this introvert has often done therapy as well. An exchange one-on-one always helps me, but groups are a strain. I usually wind up putting on a false face at those and so avoid them – definite introvert behavior. Mindful meditation has served that purpose for me of stepping aside from the flow of thoughts and watching them go by. That does wonders, especially if it becomes a regular part of living.
    I’m glad these things work for you – that keeps you in charge of getting better.
    Thank you!

    Svasti says:
    October 5, 2009 at 1:10 am
    Hi John! I never once told my therapist when I had suicidal feelings. Mostly because I didn’t intend to let anyone know. Sort of because I didn’t want anyone to feel like I was emotionally blackmailing them. And sort of because if I decided to get serious about going down that path, I didn’t want anyone to stop me. Heh.
    About other things, I dunno. I mean, I think I was generally pretty honest, but I also didn’t want to end up taking medication, so I think I probably skimmed the top off how I felt for that reason, too.
    Sometimes, especially when my PTSD was really active, I had no choice. I couldn’t control how I felt, I couldn’t control it if a flashback occured in a session. So I’d lose it all over the place.
    And in those times, I’d feel physically ill before going to see my therapist, because I was terrified of another incident. So its probable I pulled back then, too. To save myself.
    Complete emotional honesty. How many of us ever do that, anyway?

    john says:
    October 6, 2009 at 11:56 am
    Hi, Svasti -
    Isn’t it interesting how we can control – for whatever reason – what the experience of therapy can be? We all do it sometimes, and not only because there’s something we don’t want to get into. How many therapists know how to handle anything beyond a little crying? If we don’t have total trust, it would be foolish to get into immediate hot button issues.
    Thanks for being so open about it!

    Tomas says:
    October 1, 2009 at 10:41 pm
    While reading Talking Honestly about Depression, I have sensed myself as if in a cinema where film of my own life was going.
    Emotions like to be sociable. They need to get out there and be seen and heard by the people …. Your note portray as our whole being, as a way out of our calamities: as the story goes, it’s bad to man to live alone.
    Your post helped me to grasp myself – to understand the mystery of the artist’s need to display their pictures for the public review) Emotions just must be shared – that’s like the breathing that makes us alive.

    john says:
    October 2, 2009 at 10:37 am
    Thank you so much, Tomas, for this beautiful comment. It touches me very deeply to know how this has helped you.
    I had not thought of the special need of artists to share emotion by displaying their work, and the mystery of that need, as you say. That is part of the urge to create work in any medium – to speak the feeling to others.
    All my best to you -

    WonderingSoul says:
    October 1, 2009 at 12:59 am
    I don’t know where I come in at. Probably a 1.
    Your post (again) feels as though you have read some kind of script deep inside me.
    Talking openly about depression with anyone, even here in the blogsphere is AGONY… It feels almost impossible. I’ve been trying to write about it but I find that just the energy it takes to try leaves me feeling exhausted.
    You have described the pain and the fear of repression so beautifully. It resonates so deeply that it almost hurts.
    I know and understand the intense pain of keeping everything walled, repressed, hidden… and yet, the overwhelming fear that to NOT do that will result in being somehow swallowed up up by it.
    “The fear was that the words could not be formed without the emotions flowing with them, and it was the spontaneous rush of feeling that had to be prevented. Something in me always reacted faster than thought. It was more than a censor, it was a builder of strong barriers that walled the feelings in and me with them.”
    “But facing a live person – the resistance was like biting into splintered wood to shut my mouth and crush the feeling into manageable size. That hurts!”
    Yes and yes.
    So well put.
    Your writing on this subject is some of the most powerful I have ever read. I wish I could talk to you.
    Thought about a book?

    john says:
    October 1, 2009 at 10:58 pm
    Wondering Soul -
    Discussing all this has made me realize that the “script deep inside me” isn’t just mine or just yours. The details may differ, but so much is the same. Depression is an illness that spreads its familiar symptoms and tries to bury the uniqueness in each of us. Like a swindler, it takes real feeling and pays us back with counterfeit. There are endless ways to be fully human but only a few ways to be sick with depression. It’s especially agonizing to be able to see what’s going wrong – like the walls and suppressing feeling – and not be able to stop it, either because of the fear you mention or because that stuff happens before we’re fully aware.
    I can’t thank you enough for all the kind things you say about my writing. [Of course, I can't really believe praise ;-)]
    Take total care of yourself!

    Wellness Writer says:
    September 30, 2009 at 7:27 am
    Dear John,
    Another really important post. And thanks for sharing your feelings on this topic.
    I, too, have found it almost impossible to talk about depressions when I’m experiencing them. The problem for me is that when I’m severely depressed, I don’t feel like talking at all.
    However, I have always been capable of writing about my feelings when I am incapable of talking about them.
    The problem is that I’ve never met a psychiatrist yet who will read what I’ve written and respond to that rather than asking me questions I have no interest in answering.
    But, last December during one of the very worst episodes ever, I tried my hardest to discuss what I was feeling with my psychiatrist and when that wasn’t satisfying with another psychiatrist whom I had to drive more than two hours to consult with.
    What I learned from both experiences was what I have long felt. When I am at my lowest ebb, psychiatrists (at least the ones I’ve seen, and there have been seven in the last 15 years) can’t help me.
    Their clinical approach to despair leaves me feeling far worse. The professional distance they create does not heal me. And talking about feelings of hopelessness makes me feel worse rather than better.
    This is not to say that I don’t believe in seeking help when I’m depressed. It’s just that I now seek it from people who in my mind are true healers.

    john says:
    October 1, 2009 at 10:29 pm
    Hi, Susan -
    I hadn’t thought about it in that way, but my experience with psychiatrists is similar. There have been a couple who have helped me at those bad times (though I’m great at understating and concealing what’s really going on). Many, though, listen for a while, then reach for the little white pad to add a new med or increase the dosage. That’s what a lot of them have to offer. A few in my experience, though, have had enough experience, humor and skepticism to see past treatment fashions and get back to the basic human relationship.
    Your new approach makes a lot of sense – forget the credential and find the genuine healer. I hope you’ve found the right one.
    All my best – John

    Jaliya says:
    September 29, 2009 at 10:25 pm
    Telling the whole emotional truth of the present moment … Gulp … Does it ever feel impossible to you, John, to simply sense and locate a feeling in your body, or to know what it is? I find this difficult to write about because I’m in an open space of real confusion about what a feeling feels like … or even if I’m capable of feeling itself. Major depression totally buggers up the natural sensation, perception, articulation and expression of feeling. With all our defensive habits of repression, we’re left with unexpressed emotion that eventually backfires on us somehow. KABOOM. We act out, or act in.
    “Something in me always reacted faster than thought,” you write, and I wonder if that might be instinct. An instinct to self-protect – perhaps the “autopilot” you name. I know this reaction … and it’s hard to pin words to it. When it’s beyond thought’s capacity to grasp, I wonder if it’s an infantile, precognitive reaction that occurs without conscious thought.
    … I have to come back to your post … must get to sleep … John, your blog is a thinker’s delight, and a saving grace.
    More later :-)

    john says:
    October 1, 2009 at 9:37 pm
    Thanks, Jaliya -
    Impossible to sense and locate a feeling in your body … I guess when I’m depressed, really at the despair level, every feeling is blended into one, and I’m not very conscious of what my body is doing. Confusion about what a feeling feels like .. that’s a powerful way to put it. That and the idea of being incapable of feeling itself seem to come with a different form of depression where I’m completely detached from myself and everyone else.
    This is tough stuff, Jaliya! I’m so sorry you’re in that state now. The backfiring is a terrible part of all this – and makes it hard to trust myself with other people. I might say or do something I don’t intend – but there it is, coming from I have no idea where.
    I hope you’re moving into a better space!
    All my best, and then some -


    Talking to Depression – 1
    by John Folk-Williams ·

    Talking to the depression of a spouse or partner is usually a no-win trap. I speak from the experience of having angrily fought off so many attempts my wife made over the years simply to let me know that something was deeply wrong. Depression is the intruder in any intimate relationship. It creates a replica of the person you know and love, like the pod people of the Body Snatchers films – identical bodies taking the life away from the man or woman living with you and substituting a terrifying, unknown being.

    People enduring the pain of relationships distorted by depression tell their stories over and over again in the user groups, blogs, forums and message boards of the internet. These partners to depression, often bewildered and desperate, need the outpouring of support they get on these sites, but they want more than that. They want to know what to do.

    Advice is easy to come by on the forums, and we’ve all had mixed experiences with it. Sometimes, it’s enormously helpful, but it can be preachy, dogmatic, irrelevant and even offensive or wounding. But whatever the shortcomings of the help offered, I find it always to be passionate. Most of the participants online have learned what they know from hard experience, and sharing it is usually part of their own healing. Despite having to sort through much that is not relevant to my situation, I keep returning to these forums to understand more about the struggle of living with depression.

    But I have a very different experience when I turn to some of the best known books offering analysis and advice on how to respond to a depressed partner. I’m going to avoid names here because there seems to be a more generic problem than one I find in a single writer. It’s a very tricky thing to offer step by step advice to people dealing with depression because the term covers a multitude of conditions along a spectrum from mild to suicidal.

    The best writers, from my perspective, ground advice in their own experience with the illness and are helpful in guiding readers to adapt the suggestions to their own unique circumstances. I find Julie Fast’s work – though dealing with bipolar rather than depression, (Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder) to be very helpful for just these reasons.

    Many other writers have their own websites and forums, and I often find a strange break between the down-to-earth advice found in their online sites and the overly neat prescriptions in their books. Now, please understand that I have enormous respect for each of these authors. Their books are best sellers, and they have helped thousands of people better understand how to deal with depression. But I’d like to review a few of the problems that most trouble me as I search for advice that would be helpful in my own marriage.

    Here’s an exchange from a popular forum that captures what bothers me about the advice in one such book. A woman had posted a few times and expressed enormous relief and gratitude at finding this source of help and support. Following is a response to one of her statements – quoted first below.

    “…. I am still trying to persuade him to get help, but so far with no luck.”

    Response:”Stop doing that. All he will do is actively resist it. If you make him an appointment [with a therapist], he thinks you are (s)mothering him, and he resents it. Not will. He does.”

    “Really, I should stop trying to persuade him? I just read the chapter in [author's book] about using persuasive techniques – so that’s what I tried. I guess I’ll stop.”

    The woman seeking help is so hurt and confused that she is grabbing whatever advice comes her way. The book’s prescriptions about how to persuade her husband to get help sounded so clear and doable that she went for it. Finding that contradicted by an experienced contributor to the forum, she goes for the new suggestion – advice which makes more sense in the context of my own experience. The problem with the book’s advice was that it ignored the storm of intense emotion and conflicting feelings in relationships damaged by depression.

    In re-reading several books of this type, I’ve listed out a few of the things I find most troubling.

    1. They often present a stereotype of the depressed partner as incapable of thinking rationally, helpless, needing to be guided like a child, needing to be treated and talked to carefully lest the wrong words trigger an angry or violent reaction. Of course, there’s an element of truth in this, but there’s a lot more going on. Denial is not the same as irrationality. To use myself as an example – though I know I’m not unique in this – my rational mind is often functioning perfectly well, but in the midst of depression it is disconnected from what I’m feeling and capable of doing. The best support comes from understanding that I’m in the grip of something I haven’t been able to control, not from assuming I can’t think straight.

    2. Despite the characterization of irrationality, the advice is completely rational. Here are the stages you as the non-depressed partner go through, here are the steps to take in dealing with the depressed partner. Here is what you should say, here is what you shouldn’t say. I don’t believe it’s possible to use rational techniques of persuasion with a person in the midst of depression. More fundamentally, it’s not the words themselves that cause a negative reaction. It’s the attitude and feeling behind them. If I hear scripted words coated in reassuring tones that conceal hurt or anger – I’m not going to be fooled or pay much attention.

    3. The advice also tends to assume that the undepressed partner has a big responsibility to help change the troubled one. First, this is unfair. Only the depressed person can initiate change. Second, I worry that a person trying these techniques, which in many cases will fail, will believe they’re not up to the job of overcoming the partner’s resistance. That not only damages self-esteem, it reinforces the idea that they may have contributed to the onset of depression. Or worse – they might come to feel that success in changing the partner will make them happy That’s almost a formula for codependence – putting the depressed person’s state of feeling above your own and making it a condition of your wellbeing.

    4. There is a lot that the better books get right, but the priorities are often backwards. They emphasize that depression is the problem, not the relationship or the partner. Even though the impact of the practical advice might contradict this, it’s the single most reassuring thing a reader needs to understand. There’s an illness here; it’s not your fault. They also get to another key point, that the undepressed partners need to take care of themselves by drawing behavioral boundaries, setting conditions for what they can’t tolerate and backing those conditions with action, even if it means leaving the relationship. The problem is that these books often get to these points last, when they should be first and give shape to everything else.

    5. Lastly, the books seem to assume that this drama is a one-time thing. If the techniques are applied and work, the relationship is saved and happiness results. If they fail, the relationship may well end. But, while many people may endure only one major episode of depression, it’s more likely that there will be many more. Having dealt successfully with one doesn’t necessarily mean that the next will yield in the same way. Both members of a relationship need to understand this possibility. They may well be in training for a long struggle.

    Another anecdote posted by the same woman quoted above is worth repeating here. She and her husband went to a family gathering where he was completely sociable, happy and at ease. Overcome by the terrible difference between his behavior in that setting and his silence and abuse at home, she burst into tears. The husband saw this, as did other members of the family. They told him – You’re wife is crying, you have to do something. This finally got through to him. On the way home, he told her that he probably needed to get help. A small step, but a huge change for him.

    That’s the way change can begin to happen. No learned strategies, no persuasive words spoken by the wife, simply the genuine emotion of a life falling apart. Added to that was the witness of concerned relatives outside the marriage. What could be more powerful than that?

    1. Donna-1 says:

    July 6, 2011 at 4:33 am
    I guess I speak of “order” because for so long it has seemed that “order” would solve my problems. If I could only arrange my priorities, if I could only plan for my future, if I could only control myself, others, and the world in general(!) and bring about an integrated whole, then the depression would end. That is the lie I was feeding myself…alnd in some ways it still calls to me.

    Donna-1 says:
    July 4, 2011 at 5:43 am
    How sad to read through these comments. I had avoided your posts, John, about relationships and marriage. The only light I could see them in was my parents’ relationship with each other, which was strained by father’s unconfessed depression. This drastically affected the entire family. I wasn’t thinking about my own relationship with my husband…that which we had while still married. And I knew I couldn’t change my parents’ relationship, nor could I repair the past. My dad is already dead and my mom is in her elder years. So why torture myself by reading your descriptions of men in depression?
    What I failed to see was how my own depression had had a hand in wrecking my marriage. Certainly, my husband was no prize in my aspects. He was narcissistic, addicted to pornography, and in constant flux about his sexual identity. But our respective problems had been going on a long time before we met each other. It is just different when you have to share your problems with a mate; you become responsible not only to yourself (a task we each had let slip into disrepair), but to the other. If you can’t keep your own self in order, how do you bring order to a relationship?
    But today, I started tackling your relationship posts with an open mind about my own contribution (and lack of same) to my failed marriage. It is so easy to blame him, because his were the more outward and obvious faults. Mine (mainly depression) remained inward and undiscussed. Nevertheless, much as my father’s moods colored my early family life, my own illness definitely had its effect on my later relationships. It is very painful to admit. But necessary. One more adventure in wellness-seeking.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    July 5, 2011 at 10:21 pm
    Hi, Donna -
    It’s true that depression always plays a role in a relationship, whether discussed or not. But I hope you don’t blame yourself at this point. There is such a mix of problems – the impact of your past, your depression, his issues. It sounds like neither of you could be fully open with the other. If I had been married to the kind of person you describe here (and I’ve read more about him on your other posts), I wouldn’t trust him enough to open up.
    I doubt any of us can keep ourselves in order, or bring order to a relationship. The openness and constant talking are basic to understanding each other – but for that to nourish the relationship I think the basic trust, love, compassion have to be there for both. It would have been hard, it seems from what I can gather, for either of you to see and hear the other very clearly.
    Anyway, I hope there’s more help than hurt in reading these posts.

    joan says:
    November 10, 2010 at 1:19 am
    after two bouts of cancer, being made redundant before retirement, losing our 43 year old daughter, his mother. Depression set in , dr put him on effexor. Our life has come to a screeching halt with a man who does not want to get up mornings, socialize, all upset that at 80 his friends are dying and I may die and leave him alone. I am at my wit’s end

    John says:
    November 13, 2010 at 9:45 pm
    Hi, Joan -
    I’m sorry that you’re having to live through a devastating problem like this. This sounds like a very severe episode of major depression, and much depends on your husband finding some spark of motivation to get further treatment. The medication seems not to be working at all, and that should be discussed with a doctor – preferably a psychiatrist, who would have much more detailed knowledge of the full range of drugs and their side effects than a primary care physician. I’ve found medication to be most useful to take the edge off the worst symptoms so that other forms of therapy – and my own efforts to heal – can be more effective. It would be best to discuss all the options with a psychiatrist since there are alternatives to drugs.
    There’s a limit to what you can do to help him, but I would urge you to have your own support, if you don’t already, in whatever form you’ve found effective. Severe depression has a way of spreading to others in the family – you are so directly affected that your health, physical and emotional, can also be undermined.
    My best to you – John

    sarah says:
    September 6, 2010 at 2:21 pm
    Hi John, thanks for your helpful reply. The thing is, I already chucked out his stuff, unbeknown to him. It was such a liberating thing to do. But my main remaining question now is, since he doesn’t know that I no longer have his stuff, why hasn’t he been in touch? I was hoping you could shed some light on it. Like, would it be that he just never thinks about me anymore? Would it be because he can’t face me and feels badly about his behaviour? Is he just careless with his possessions? Or could it be that he fears being back in touch would stir up feelings for him? I know you can’t know the answer, but I’d be interested to hear any suggestions you might have!
    As I said before, this whole thing happened just after my own father had committed suicide, which makes it particularly awful that my ex has never got in touch to even find out how I am. People say to me that I should just forget about it because it all just got too messy, as if somehow it was a foregone conclusion that it could never have worked, because of what had happened with my Dad. Call me unrealistic, but I think that’s untrue. It could have worked – with effort on both sides. That’s what I’m struggling to leave behind.
    My other question for you is: do you think it’s a common occurrence for him to have turned round and started blaming ME for being the depressed one? He said to me, when he was trying to extract himself from the whole situation: “You know Sarah, I always seem to end up with emotionally unstable girls, and since I can be quite unstable myself, it’s not a good idea”. I thought that was such a cheap and insulting pretext for leaving the relationship. I’m not emotionally unstable – but I was GRIEVING, which he seemed to have got bored of, despite the fact that when we got together he swore that he was the person to help me on the grounds that he “knew all about suicidal urges”. I think it is so, so wrong to enter into a relationship with somebody who’s grieving, expect them to support you, and then when that person starts to fall apart because you have asked too much of them, you turn around and label them “emotionally unstable”. You don’t just drop people, in any situation, and certainly not when they have just been through a huge trauma. The worst part is that, when he walked out on me, he said ” you know Sarah, you’re just expecting happiness to come from outside of you, like in the job you’re doing or your boyfriend being home for dinner. But happiness can only come from the inside, when you work on yourself and face up to what’s missing”. Then he walked out the door. I mean, is it just me, or is that REALLY twisted and abusive?
    I wish I didn’t fantasize about reconciliation – because I know I never could get back with him now. But the sad thing is, I still fantasize every day that I will bump into him on the street, or on the train, and he will want to work on it with me.
    And most of all, I want to know whether he ever thinks about me. I think deep down he blames himself for most things, but as with many depressed people, he just externalizes all of that and blames everything that goes wrong on other people.
    Also I wish I could contact his parents – do you think that is a bad idea? I recently found out through a contact of my mother’s that his parents were devastated when we split up and could not understand why he had left me, as they apparently thought I was a lovely person and very good for him.
    So, if you have any other comments and perspectives – well, I can’t tell you how much it helps me. As you so rightly say, I’m not quite done with it yet. A big three cheers for your website

    John says:
    September 9, 2010 at 10:32 pm
    Hi, Sarah -
    Well, to be honest, I’m not at all sure I can come up with suggestions that would be very useful. As you say, I can’t know what he’s thinking – or anything about him other than what you’ve described. Perhaps that’s what I can mention – there is one thing that strikes me about what you’ve written in this and your earlier post. It’s this: Almost all the questions you ask about him sound like you’re searching for ways to remain hopeful about getting together again. On the other hand, most of what you say about his words and actions creates a convincing portrait of an insensitive, self-centered guy who has been manipulating and at times abusive toward you. Of course, you’re writing about a lot of hurt and confusion and conflicting feelings, and I don’t know of anyone who could come to terms with all that in a straightforward way. So I’m not surprised if part of you can describe a man who’s broken with you pretty decisively and part of you tries to find some hope in his silence and distance – or the occasional comments he has made to you. I remember all too well never being able to accept a break-up I went through long ago. I couldn’t stop calling, hoping, trying to push myself back into her life, convinced that I’d be able to get her back, even when she did everything possible to make it completely clear that it was over.
    So I really sympathize with you but find it hard to say much more than this. I just hope this works out in a way that’s best for you.
    I guess
    It’s pretty hard to interpret

    sarah says:
    September 2, 2010 at 6:51 am
    Dear John and Susan
    Just wanted to express my absolute sympathy with Susan’s dilemma and say thanks to John for clarifying certain mysteries that still linger with me over my boyfriend’s departure
    My boyfriend left on new year’s day, which was meant to be our first anniversary. Like other people who have written in to the forum have described, he was dazzlingly keen from day one, and spoke in very committed terms about the relationship although looking back I can see that those words were never backed up by action. I knew when we got together that he had been on antidepressants for some time and had suffered a number of breakdowns, ostensibly triggered by huge amounts of stress in his studies. He was incredibly bright, blustery and charismatic on the outside and in the early days of our relationship, I think I also had access to the more vulnerable, quieter, inner person. But the more I got to know him, and the more we had to deal with the inevitable conflicts and power struggles inherent to any relationship, the more distant he became from me. Any criticism of his behaviour caused him to withdraw completely. Gradually he became more and more defensive and it was as if anyone who did not reflect his “perfect’ self image was excluded from his circle. I began to notice that his friendships were kept deliberately superficial.
    It frustrated me so much that he did not seem to want to confront his own issues, and he was well aware that he had problems, because he had had some counselling and had a very difficult relationship with his father, etc. etc. I made allowances for all of this, all the way through, but like others here, I eventually burst out in a rage that had been suppressed for ages. As Susan rightly identifies, this is a subtle form of emotional abuse and as the partner you do not realise that you are being dragged into it until your own self-esteem has been completely destroyed. In other words, with someone exhibiting such behaviour, it is well nigh impossible to forge a relationship of equals.
    I began to feel resentful over time, and gradually I became depressed myself. I found myself putting his own needs well above my own, and when he was having a breakdown I put everything on hold to be able to care for him as I thought he deserved. He came through it, but afterwards, he distanced himself gradually from me. He wouldn’t invite me out with his friends, and never once took the initiative in suggesting that we go away together for a weekend. I felt I was doing all the giving. And sure enough, when I began to slide into a depression myself, he was working such long hours that he barely noticed me. It was all fine and dandy with him, and the implication was that I was now getting in the way of him having the happy time he had now “earned”.
    I felt so angry and neglected that I got angry with him at a party [mistake!!] and the next day he told me he was leaving as I was “too much responsibility” for him when I was down myself. 4 weeks previously, he had been telling me how he wanted to invest so much more in our relationship and was so happy and close to me. Now, he was coming up with all sorts of pathetic excuses why we couldn’t be together, like how we weren’t into the same hobbies, mixed in with casually cruel remarks about how he could never see himself having children with me. When he walked out, I was shaking and felt unsafe and completely blamed myself. he never even asked a friend to check on me.
    His behaviour was not only abusive, it was also highly negligent. He never got in touch to come and collect the considerable amounts of stuff he had left at my flat, or to check how I was doing, or to discuss us. So again, it was I who, by this time having seen my doctor and started a course of prozac myself – decided that I would, yet again, be the one to take responsibility for us. He still mattered so much to me and I couldn’t bare to see him throw away yet another relationship (he has a history of short-lived alliances that end in tears). So I rang him up. I said we needed to talk about us. But he avoided any discussion of us, instead pretending everything was OK and saying we could go to the cinema, and be friends. Anything but confront what had just happened. I found this behaviour immature, baffling and completely infuriating. My way of dealing with it was – rightly or wrongly – to keep trying to get through to him, but I realise now how futile some of those attempts were. When you say, John, that it’s likely to make him feel even more trapped if the woman keeps declaring her love and constancy, that really struck a chord with me. He withdrew from me physically and was unbelievable cold and distant. As if he had started that “new life” or “new self” that he so craved. And it took me a long time to work out that his level of denial was so deep that nothing and no one could get through to him. We met up a few more times over the course of the next few months, and when I offered him his stuff back he said he “wasn’t in any rush to get it back”.
    John, do you have any thoughts on all this?

    John says:
    September 6, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    Hi, Sarah -
    I’m really sorry you had to go through this hellish experience, and it sounds like you’re not quite done with it yet. (?) There’s so much betrayal in this kind of self-centered and abusive behavior. Thank God you understand what he’s doing and that trying to get through to him – or taking care of his needs – doesn’t work. Depression doesn’t necessarily explain or account for this – not fully – it sounds like that’s just the way he is. (Please understand that when I hear stories like this, I get right into my judgmental, righteous mode – and I’m sure I’m oversimplifying.)
    One thing that I recognize – because it’s so common – is his wanting to hang on to you – not only with the idea of being “friends” but also by leaving his stuff at your place. That’s usually a way of maintaining some control by having you serve him – assuming you’ll store his things. Allowing that to happen assures him you’re still tied to him, even a little. Abusive behavior is more about control and manipulation – whether consciously done or not – and does aim at destroying your self esteem – as you recognize. I know how hard it is to get it back once compromised – and being decisive to stand up for yourself.
    My rational mind, as I mentioned in the recent post on the open door, advises you to let him know – through a blunt email or some other impersonal way – that unless he removes his belongings by a date certain you’ll call Goodwill to take it away and toss what they can’t use. Emotionally, I can understand the push and pull of anger and attachment and how difficult everything about him must be.
    You’ve come a long way in a relatively short time. I’m sure it seems like forever, but, as you know, others have lived through decades of this sort of relationship.
    My very best to you -

    Susan says:
    June 21, 2010 at 1:52 pm
    Despite my response (No 14)your post of 17th (no 13) challenged me to look again at my relationship, in fact i’ve spent the whole weekend reflecting. I have been trying to understand including asking why this anguish keeps coming back every few weeks with renewed vigour and why, despite some misgivings throughout this relationship, I was so totally destroyed by its end. Finally I have started to realise why my mind would not let this drop and to face the unthinkable.
    This relationship seemed like the answer to a prayer and the love was something I had never experienced in all my life (I was married to my abusive & difficult husband at 18). It quickly seemed like something that was just meant to be, so right, wonderful and the love of my life that it was tantamout to heresy to think otherwise or to challenge it or admit to doubts.
    There were things that just didn’t seem right, statements, actions and I continued to be sucked into, and carried along by it. I kept suppressing concerns that, if expressed, seemed to be bypassed or taken over by his needs. Besides some of the things in my first post there were others that I’ve been almost afraid to think about. 6 smonths into the relationship there was an incident, this has nagged away at my soul and refused to lie down, something that just didn’t fit with the kind, gentle, considerate person my partner purported to be. I’m now daring to admit that this was physicalsexual abuse but I was so frightened, inexperienced and reluctant to break the spell that I didn’t protest verbally and when I brought it up later it was denied and dismissed so again I put it to the back of my mind.
    As I said before his health, life, finances seemed to take over my life and my every waking minute. Responsibility for all the depression issues were put onto me.
    He envisaged a world with just himself and me (which I believe fits your description of fantasising about a wonderful, rosy world where everything was so perfect that it cured all his problems) and was annoyed that I spent time at weekends on other things, he said he felt pushed out.
    That I refused to stop my hobby caused friction, my running and training had been instrumental in keeping me sane and maintaining some self-esteem in my marriage, but giving up was presented as ‘concern about my health’ as I’d had a couple of injuries and rounds of surgery. This hobby was so vital to my emotional health that I was happy to risk the physical consequences. I was gradually pulled away from my running friends though.
    All his opinions were presented as just good sense (or sometimes disloyal); almost treason, so you are right – his version of reality had to prevail.
    I wouldn’t conform to his wishes as I didn’t stop my hobby and I wouldn’t drop contact with my dear family, though this wasn’t directly suggested, needing to spend much more time together was more subtle. So perhaps that too was instrumental in his emotional withdrawal and eventual cold, clinical ending of the relationship.
    John, I think you should move our exchange to your post on psychological abuse, you were right on this. There is much more that I can’t face today. It is summarised well in your description of this type of abuse in your post date 17th June.
    I still believe that this is very closely linked to depression-there was much evidence of this. This level of abuse is perhaps, as you say, driven by emotions like fear & shame and reflects both the extreme level of denial needed to keep introspection at bay and also the feelings of things like personal inadequacy. I am convinced he had a lifetime of these issues but whether his abuse of me was unconscious or conscious is one thought too many for today.
    I’m obliged to you for pushing me into confronting the fact that what I thought was the most wonderful experience of my life was a complete illusion but it’s been a very distressing journey.
    Thanks for saying that it was not my fault – that helps though I know that I was so submerged that I suppressed my fears and instincts.
    I will try to relate some of the story to help your readers as soon as I can.
    By the time you write a book, as I think you will, hopefully I’ll be able to provide more case study details.
    All the best, God bless and take care of yourself and your family.

    john says:
    June 23, 2010 at 9:50 pm
    Hi, Susan -
    I’m so glad you’re beginning to find a way to work this out and get closer to some resolution. Most people I know can’t achieve this level of clarity without a lot of time in therapy. I’m glad if anything I’ve said could help, but it’s all your inner strength to keep pushing yourself to look so closely at these painful experiences. There have been many times when I’ve tried to do that but wound up blotting the whole thing out (often by falling asleep in the midst of thinking or writing my way through it) or else just anguishing over the past without learning anything from it.
    You’re so candid and just plain brave to write all this and share it with others here. As you suggest, I’ll move this exchange to the recent post. In fact, I’d like to base a new post on what you’ve written – consisting mostly of quotes from your comments. Your writing and experience are so powerful, just as you’ve put them so far, that they should have more attention than the comments often get. Let me know if that’s OK with you.
    I welcome and thank you for anything else you’d feel free to contribute here.
    My very best to you as you continue to work on this.

    Susan says:
    June 18, 2010 at 1:44 pm
    Thank you for your reply. You are right that the reply was not what I expected partly because it’s focus was on me when I anticipated more of whathow he might be feeling and the consequent behaviors. Also partly, as you suspected, because of his possible role as the emotional & psychological abuser.
    I have considered this before and I have to admit that I had some misgivings (and feelings of being taken advantage of) on and off through this relationship – this sometimes makes me wonder why I have been so totally broken by the end result. I’ve also asked myself if I’m not facing up to this possibility as it is so painful for me. However I’m trying to think rationally and objectively through many incidents and concerns in this relationship and, though there are many ‘close fits’ on both possible explanations I feel that the situation is one of a depressed person who acts abusively.
    This is because I think that I know every nuance of emotional and psychological abuse and manipulation; I came to know it intimately during the 33 years of my marriage and the first 5 of my separation because, as you rightly say, I became unable to resist and was, in a way, almost complicit in the abuse. Contact only ended because husband found out sbout my relationship, refused to speak to me and started to speak abusively about me to my sons instead of to me personally. He could always find new reasons for abuse regardless of whether they had a slight, manipulated basis in fact or whether they were totally fictitious.
    When I met my partner I certainly was very vulnerable and was swept of my feet very quickly. My experiences convince me that he, from childhood, has externalised and blamed others for his internal termoil and feelings of inadequacy. Also that this pattern of behavior is well-entrenched and that he paid lip-service to medication and therapy. I say lip-service because he seemed to expect a ‘cure’ to come to him, for example he said that he recognised that he took offence very easily and critised others too readily (from earlier rounds of therapy I think though he was not too forthcoming on this) but he carried on and on doing more of the same. I take the point, and agree, that only he can recognise and commit to making the changes needed for recovery despite his efforts to shift resposibility and blame onto me. But waiting, hoping, helplessly for that to happen is almost as hard for the non-depressed partner as living with the fall-out. Maybe harder because there’s no rules, guidance, measure, certainty and in my case neither hope nor closure.
    My partner did not deny the depression it felt as if he used it as a weapon to demand special treatment from others and justify his lack of regard & care of them. He did deny any responsibility for the pain and damage it caused I think because of the gap between the things he knew in his heart were good and kind & his own behaviour was just to wide to face.
    I haven’t closed my mind to your suggestion; some of your words were very close to the mark and thanks for the suggested reading, I will follow up on this.
    I’m actually an intelligent, educated, competent professional person who can make an attempt at objectivity and moving on…. for a week or two … and then the hurt, confusion, loss and so much more comes flooding back with renewed vigour as does the need to try and understand. My instinct is saying that I need to understand to heal; hence my query. I just seem incapable of accepting and moving on even though this has destroyed me and my future as everything we had planned is no more. Underneath all this, and the knowledge that something very precious to me is gone forever, there is a very small voice saying “what about me”.
    Your writing, your honesty and your willingness to examine your own behaviour and the consequences, even when it is painful, is helpful to partners who are feeling the hurtful consequences of depression. It is also rare as most information is focussed on the needs of the sufferer and completely omits, or understates, the harsh reality from the perspective of the non-depressed sufferer.
    Thanks again I appreciate your time

    john says:
    June 19, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    Hi, Susan -
    Your clarity of insight is wonderful – though I gather it sometimes eludes you. Staying sane through 35 years of such treatment shows what a strong person you are. In the end, I suppose explanations of behavior and the labels that go with them aren’t so important as preserving an emotional integrity while doing what you can to save a relationship. I think men who are depressed and abusive are driven by fear and shame, and the most powerful thing they can do is just admit that to themselves. It’s even more powerful if they can say the words to the person who loves them. There’s nothing like telling the truth.
    The severity of their behavior with others probably signals the level of denial that keeps them from taking a good look inside themselves. In a way, my own lack of self esteem helped turn me around. I could never fully believe that anyone else caused my problems – it was more typical to blame myself for everything when I was completely depressed. So when I was acting out – doing my worst – there was always that bit of doubt – who are you kidding? At least I knew I was out of control.
    If I had not stopped and realized the depression was mine to accept and do something about, I might well have walked out on my family and then repeated the same pattern through a succession of failed relationships. People I’ve known who’ve caused the most harm have been completely oblivious of the needs of anyone else – and they never seem to get that wake-up call.
    It’s hard for me to see a good outcome if that moment of truth never comes. It’s the precondition for allowing therapy of any kind to work, and certainly to reach recovery.
    I’m sorry if I got things wrong in responding to your post – the impressions I’ve had come from your keen observations and clear writing. But it’s my armchair advice, and you’re living through it.
    I wish you the very best,

    Susan says:
    June 14, 2010 at 2:50 pm
    I’d value your help and insight to help me understand and cope with a problem that has almost destroyed me.
    I had 33 years of unhappiness in my marriage, I now realise things I suffered were probably due to my husband being depressed. I stayed in the marriage so long because other people’s needs were always more important than my own eg my younger son’s lung disease, caring for my mother-in-law, my father’s Alzheimers etc. Things were so bad that it took me 5 years to recover after my separation, then I met a wonderful man, we quickly fell head-over-heels in love and I had so many new and happy experiences – it seemed as if someone was smiling on me at last. This man is the love of my life. A few things concerned me, even in the early days, but I tried to put them aside as I’d never been so happy in all my life. He had no friends, was very critical of other people, he used worrying words like ‘belittle’, status was important to him, he could be ‘touchy’.
    After about 3 months he told me was suffering from depression, consequently was on benefits, and gave an outline of the condition. But, due to our relationship things were looking up, he couldn’t understand why he never totally recoved that first year. At the time I admit I was shocked, especially when I read up on some of the behaviors and consquences on partners which I put to the back of my mind. I also found it a bit difficult to understand as I had (somehow) come through a truly awful life with years of emotional abuse and much more.
    He’d had a traumatic divorce after his wife left him after an short affair with a rich, childhood boyfriend. So in just a matter of weeks his marriage & business were destroyed leaving him, mid 50s with no job and two very young children. She never provided a word or a single penny of help or support despite a very affluent lifestyle. This was followed by, what he described as, an unhappy relationship with an abusive, ‘power woman’ who repeatedly verbally attacked him.
    During that 1st wonderful year there were a couple of incidents when he withdrew rather than admit he was wrong that caused me huge distress as I’m a kindly sort who always puts other people before myself. He also needed a great deal of help and support; so much so that I felt almost squeezed dry, especially as I’d gone into the relationship feeling that I needed someone ‘for me’, but I was doing more and more giving and less & less receiving. However we were inseparable, totally in love and we had so many good times so I seemed to get sucked into putting my worries aside, when I tried to express them he didn’t really listen, the conversation inevitably turned to his needs and everything seemed to be about him. I was reluctant to divorce and marry him, despite his requests, partly due to fear of a claim against my pension scheme and partly due to a nagging concern about his behavior.
    In our second year together i suffered a series of blows; my mother & sister diagnosed with cancer, my sick son had 4 major crises, a dear uncle and a close friend died, a dear friend had a traumatic pregnancy and eventual Down’s child then my cat, my constant companion over 16 years died. I needed help and support but, in reality, little was forthcoming despite his assertions of being a caring, wonderful person. Sometimes he barely listened or his interest felt mechanical, almost as if he was reading questions from ‘The Kind Person’s Guide’ and as soon as he got to number 6 he could forget the whole thing and go to sleep; he couldn’t comprehend why I couldn’t do so too. He went from being ‘touchy’ to selfish and quite unkind.
    There was a major incident when I got back from a clinic where my mother’s cancer had been diagnosed (I’d already spent the morning dealing with a benefits claim for him when I really needed some comfort & encouragement)
    and I needed some kindness and support. He’d had a problem with one of his daughters that I asked him to keep until the next day so I could cope but he continued pressing his story and ignoring my pleas until, in despair, I shouted that I couldn’t take a ‘selfish family’ story that day. Result: he withdrew totally for 5 days when I was in despair. He had been endlessly asserting his kind, supportive qualities when his actual behavior was the opposite. He never, ever could say sorry or accept any fault for anything. Afterwards he felt he was entirely justified had been offended because I had ‘attacked’ him (when, in fact, I was challenging thoughtless, selfish behavior) and said that because he hadn’t intended to hurt me the actual hurt he had added to my pain was inconsequential & due to my ‘bizarre’ aggressive behavior.
    I was seriously down at this time and it seemed as if my needs (and, I think, him denying his own behavior) caused pressure that caused him to start pulling back from me and made me very unhappy and tense. Also he had almost exhausted his savings and his financial situation was becoming desperate. My natural kindness, generousity, considerate nature and love seemed to annoy him yet he was taking more and more from me. He was annoyed when I said I was tired after work a couple of evenings even though he told me how exhausted and tired HE felt every single day. This continued for almost 5 months with me becoming more anxious and him more difficult, the last weeks much worse with increasingly ‘odd’ behaviour. I didn’t recognise the depression storm clouds though he was becoming more self-absorbed, selfish and clinically, coldly cruel.
    Then a huge row, (that I beleive he intentionally provoked) when all my fears erupted, he didn’t listen at all, so I repeated it shouting. I know i went over the top and I realise now the impact it had on his increasingly fragile condition – this grieves me and I feel so guilty. I rang him after a week and we spoke and met up a few times – but he was distant and unwilling to discuss anything but mundane things – any suggestion of ‘us’ or my feelings brought a complete blank; or the phone going down.
    I was distraught, grief-stricken, angry, everything and he was clinically detached “we had argued, he had been offended and had withdrawn (in the face of unjustified attack – every challenge or request for some consideration of me was always an attack) totally normal, understandable and 100% justified and any mention of my feelings just brought stares of disbelief.
    After a month of this I visited him and brought up the ‘us’ question. He (the love of my life) looked at me as if I was a thick, tiresome piece of trash and said sslowly that “he felt absolutely nothing for me”. I rreminded him of some of the wonderful things we had done together and all his assertions of love, marriage, mme being his soul-mate and the love of his life. wWithout a trace of compassion or kindness he said “it might have seemed like we were in love but people like me often assumed their partners returned their feelings when they actually did not. He admitted that it might seem a bit strange that he had been completely in love with his former abusive girl-friend and that he felt absolutely nothing for me even though i was the kindest, most considerate, most caring & loving, generous and thoughtful person he had ever met. If there was any chance that he might find some feeling for me I had to leave him competely alone for him to ‘recover’. The only concern he expressed was about being worried about his being single again. I was in total despair and spoke of my unhappiness and the wonderful things he had promised. His response: that my feelings were not under consideration and that what he wanted had to happen. As there was only the very slightest chance that he would find any feeling for me my thoughts & feelings were completely irrelevant.
    Since then I have been so griefsticken but also angry and disbelieving about his callous cruelty and not able tto understand how anyone, no matter how ill, could iintentionally inflict so much pain on anyone, let alone tthe person who was supposed to be the love of his life.
    Despite my grief I tried to be quietly ‘there’ and after a month of no contact I sent him a photo (of himself) and the next month a book both of which elicted a polite, but distant thank-you email. Then I got an email from him asking for help with a benefits overpayment charge and I responded with some suggested points. A few days later a letter came, somehow I expected an acknowledgement of my hurt, a reconcilliation, a kind word, anything. In fact it was a benefits appeal letter for me to check. This caused me to be near suicidal I have been so hurt, wounded & confused and since then have read all the information on depression on the internet and now appreciate what I found so hard to believe and accept before; particularly the ‘don’t take it personally’ but too late.
    During our relationship he had two periods on medication but was not convinced that they helped though he was more concerned with avoiding side effects than recovering. In our final weeks together he was having counselling but, at the time, I was pretty certain he was telling her lies, or recounting things out of context, to avoid any thought of his having shortcomings but now I’m wondering if he was fighting accepting them or taking any responsibility for his actions.
    3 Three months ago I got a polite two-line email saying that his appeal had failed and thanks for the help and since then there has been no contact as I’ve just tried to give him the space he requested but this has been very hard on me and not a single day passes without unhappiness and grief. I have taken up a new hobby, started meditation classes and postponed my retirement, (he was pressing me to retire so we could spend more time together), so I really have tried to help myself but the pain never goes.
    I do not know what to do next for him, or me. Do people recover from where ever he is now? I truly cannot take much more, after a difficult life this has brought me to my knees and sometimes I just want an end to the pain, sometimes I just want the wonderful days back and sometimes I just want to tell him what he has done to me (and make him listen not dismiss, or zone-out, on anything that’s not about him)or to ask him where the wonderful person has gone.
    I do care about him and his welfare first and foremost, but I also know that I’m just too fragile to cope with recurring problems like this but I just can’t walk away either, despite the advice from my counsellor.
    I feel as if his condition has bled me dry, left me with absolutely nothing despite me giving my all(in fact less than I had before I met him as he gave me a glimpse of something good then took it away in the cruellest way possible)and I have neither hope nor any kind of closure.
    II half suspect from some of the expressions he has used ((e.g.”it wasn’t right but she was a wonderful, kind, thoughtful person”)that he did something similar to the girlfriend previous to me but over a much shorter timescale(she tragically lost her sister early in the relationship). This lady died, perhaps a year or so ago so I keep wondering if he is denying letting her down and perhaps any possible guilt that he caused her unhappiness that contributed to her death;but this is sheer speculation.
    I’ve read your comments on men who feel the need to move onto something new – as cure for all ills – instead of looking into themselves and I’m tortured by the thought that I was just seen as a ‘fixer’ for his problems but when rationality returns I realise that the love we shared couldn’t have been faked – or just turned off – and is still there somewhere.

    john says:
    June 17, 2010 at 2:36 pm
    Hi, Susan -
    This is such a painful story to read. I can’t imagine what you must feel living through it all. But, Susan, the advice I have to offer is probably not what you want or expect to hear. Remember, I’m no therapist, and it’s always hard to tell exactly what’s going on from reading even a very detailed post like this one. But please – please – listen carefully to your counselor!
    It may well be that this man is depressed, but it sounds like his pattern of behavior fits another one that is more destructive – that of an emotional and psychological abuser. I just wrote a post here on exactly this problem. That might be a starting point to understand how this form of abuse pervades a relationship from beginning to end, including the love he shows at first and the dazzling experience of feeling like you’ve found the love of your life. Then things go wrong bit by bit as the woman’s words get twisted, his version of reality has to prevail and blame is shifted entirely to his partner. Since I’m no expert, I’d urge you to read the books I reference in that post. The pattern of the relationship you describe is exactly what those books are talking about – at least it sure sounds like it to me.
    I’ve been finding out a lot about this form of abuse because my own behavior when depressed was extremely abusive emotionally to my wife and family. While it’s true that depression warps a personality and much of what a depressed person does and says is not intended personally, the effect and hurt is completely personal. I was responsible for that abuse, and it was up to me, no one else, to get treatment and to make that the most important thing I needed to do in my life.
    The advice I offer in the case of depression and its “fallout” on the family is two-fold. First, that nobody but the depressed partner can change – it’s up to him (or her, but I hear mostly about depressed men) not the partner. Not only is there little the partner can do – despite the strong belief that there must be something they can do to get him back – she also has to look out for her own wellbeing and get all the support she can get, including therapy. I believe she also needs to be clear about how much abuse she can take and let the depressed partner know her limits and that the emotional harm may never heal if it keeps going on.
    Whether this man is primarily an emotional abuser – with a history of this type of behavior – or a depressed man who is acting abusively, there is nothing that you can do for him. He is the only one who can and must take responsibility for getting well – and to stop blaming and hurting you. As I said, it sounds like the emotional abuse pattern is the major concern – and that leaves your mental health and wellbeing, frankly, at risk. That’s why I urge you to pay close attention to your counselor, who can offer a much clearer and more objective view than you can. It’s not your fault that this is happening to you.
    I know this must sound harsh – perhaps way off the mark – but that’s the way it looks to me.
    I really hope that all this pain can come to an end soon.

    Gem says:
    February 10, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    Thank you for replying. I’ve told him many times. I had what i feel was a breakdown last night and i tried asking him for just a little contact. He says he can’t talk to me. I need to get myself sorted before i can do anything. He just said me being “Depressed” isn’t helping him get better. He doesn’t seem to care about my feelings anymore and would rather talk to some random women from America. I’m only 18 and i need to be happy with myself first so i’m going to work on that whilst being on some herbal remedy to calm me. Thanks for your help =] x

    Gem says:
    February 8, 2010 at 10:53 am
    My boyfriend and i had been together for 9 months, he came down often as we live 500 miles apart. He lives with his nan as he had bad parents and she took him in. He’s always had depression but told me i could make him feel better and happy. He moved in with me just before christmas, before this we talked all the time on the phone. After he’d moved in everything was fine, then 2 weeks in he suddenly said he felt lost here, alone. He left that day, when he got home i had a phone call saying he really missed me and wanted to come back. He came back the next day. A few more weeks went by and everything was fine, he was going to propose to me, i felt perfect. He went home again within an hour. He ignored me at first then i called his nan asking her to let me talk to him. He said he was going to stop taking his pills for a day or two so he could make out his feelings, he says his pills numb them. It was different each day, one minute he loved me and wanted me, next he loved me but didn’t want me. We haven’t talked for a few days now and it kills me. He said he wants to be friends in the future but he needs to concentrate on getting better. I’m left in limbo, not knowing where i stand. How can he want to marry me and have children then suddenly want to be friends? I want to be there for him, when his nan dies he’ll have nothing, i’m scared of what he’ll do. I know it sounds horrible to say that but it’s something i think about a lot. Is he really feeling that he needs to get better on his own? Or is it an excuse to break up with me? I love him so much and haven’t wanted to eat or do anything, i just cry and hope something bad happens to me, every day. What should i do? My family just say he’s fallen out of love with me, i just want to know if he ever loved me and if depression is this way as i don’t know much about it. Will he come back to me?

    john says:
    February 9, 2010 at 10:05 pm
    Hi, Gem -
    From what you’re saying, my first concern is about you. I hope you have some support to turn to and also hope you’re not blaming yourself. It sounds like his behavior is triggered by depression, and you’re not causing any of this. It’s a horrible blow to have this torment going on, and I’m really sorry you’re feelings are being so abused. This is about his depression, but still there are limits. He’s responsible for the impact of his behavior and can’t keep playing with your feelings. The danger for you is that his feelings start to seem more important in your life than your own. If he can’t stop exposing you to his back and forth behavior, I hope you can set a boundary for yourself – as anguishing as that may be. Part of being depressed is that you become self-absorbed and stop thinking about what you’re doing to others – somehow the depressed person has to wake up to that damage.
    Taking antidepressants can dull your feelings. That happened to me over a period of several years. I felt detached, and it was easy to be careless about relationships. Another problem is imagining that moving to a new place, finding a new partner – or some other big change – will “make you feel better.” That never works. Trying to depend on someone else for a cure is abdicating responsibility for facing the inner pain on your own. No one made me depressed, no one could make me better. The hardest part of long-term depression for me was realizing that nothing would cure me if I didn’t make recovery the most important thing in my life – and stop fantasizing about cures happening through a new relationship.
    Trying to find out what he really feels probably can’t be done at this point because he doesn’t know. As long as he’s subject to depression, he’s playing by a different set of rules. I don’t see how he can get in touch with his feelings by switching his medication on and off. Depression is probably the dominant force in his emotional life, and I hope you can get enough support to make sure his depression isn’t controlling your life.
    Letting him know the depth of your feelings and setting a limit on what you can tolerate from him may be the best things to do for him – but mostly for you.
    All my best to you =

    Shelly says:
    October 22, 2009 at 7:07 pm
    Hi John,
    Thank you for responding to my post. Here is really what happened. Him and I carried a long distance relationship (in different countries) for 6 years and finally decided we were getting engaged. He was going to move here to the US and despite the fact that he was going to start a new life away from everything he knew, he was sooo excited and just wanted to be with me. I came back to the states after visiting with him for 3 weeks and when I got back and called him, he would complain about feeling depressed. He linked it to our separation and even though it was temporary (he was planning to be here in December), he said his mind played tricks on him and told him that perhaps things were too good to be true. Another thing was that the contract he was working on was taking forever to cut him a check which he was going to use to get my engagement ring. Additionally, the jewelry store had the ring on hold and was calling him daily to see when he would pick it up.
    Two weeks after being back in the US, I called him one night and he was out and we got into a very insignificant argument and I did not call him for one week. When I called him after the week, he seemed very mad and said that he thought I had decided to leave him because I did not call and that he was so upset that one night he tried to take his life. I confirmed with him that I did not call because I was busy but that I did not break with him. Within 5 minutes of the conversation, he broke up with me!
    HE broke into tears and cried and said that he tried everything but that things were not going to work out because he had lost his passion towards me. He said he loved me soo much but the passion was just not there and he didnt understand why and that this hurt him soo much.
    I called him everyday to try to get him to change his mind and to give us a chance to fix things but he refused, the more I insisted the more aggressive he became. He blamed it all on me saying things like “i would call all the time and you never picked up the phone” you did this and that and it was disrespectul, bla blah blah. He made me feel like it was my fault that our relationship had ended.
    So i finally got into researching depression and realized that all his symptoms just fit in. I tried to tell him repeatedly that he was feeling empty inside because of his depression and/or the medication and he would say “well whatever the case may be, our relationship is now over and you may actually want to seek some help because I think you are the depressed one”.
    He went through the agressive phase first. after 2-3 weeks, he went through the empty feeling, he was so emotionless and nothing faze him. I would cry, I told him this depression was taking away our lives and what we loved the most and his response was “it is too late, the person you knew died that night when I tried commiting suicide, I am no longer the same person, I dont have a soul. You need to save yourself from me, I dont want to hurt you, I want you to be happy and when I see that you find happiness, I will die happy”
    I did not talk to him for one week because i was traumatized by how he would be with me. It killed me to feel that he was so distant and agressive and nothing fazed him and even though I knew it was the illness, I would still take things personal. When I then called him again, he picked up the phone and said he was busy and that he would call me back. Of course he didnt call back that day but surprisingly enough, he called me 5 days later and his mood was so positive. He wanted to know how i was doing and when I asked how he was doing he actually was honest and said he was feeling better and was taking the medication, etc. etc.
    After this good week of feeling better, I tried to take advantage of the fact that he was in a good mood and suggested that he starts seeing a therapist formally and so that he could get the appropiate medication (unfortunately the psychologist that treated him initially gave up on him because he would not open up during therapy sessions and basically gave him a prescription with as many refills as possible for antidepressants without the need of check ups every so often, I know this sounds weird but thats how things are in South America). He agreed to it, but then he got into the stages of feeling guilty and lots of remorse which he indicated was suffocating him. He felt guilty that he gave up so many things after being depressed (he was referring to our relationship) and he felt the need to scape from it by taking a vacation outside of the city he lives in because again he thought this would solve the problem. I dont know why he was feeling guilty at this stage, perhaps he came off the medication, I am not sure. All he said was that he was going to leave town and was going to the pharmacy to get his medication. He came back from that trip a couple of days ago and was back to what he calls “normal” just feeling nothing.
    I couldnt deal with just talking to him and seeing how he wont do the right thing to help himself, he’s convinced that by making new friends, moving into new things and leaving the past behind and going to the gym 7 days a week, working all day and isolating himself to what he calls the past (me, his family, old friends) wil make him feel better. Yesterday I called him and I broke into tears and told him how much it was hurting me to not only see that depression was taking evrything away from us but it was also destroying his life and it was painful to see that he did not want to seek the appropiate treatment. He listened to me calmly and begged me to calm down and stop crying. In the past when he was not depressed, if I cried, he would freak out and break into tears with me. Yesterday he just heard me cry and I realized that he listened to everything I said, but it was like he did not feel anything. After talking for two hours he then said that the solution could that I find another man to be with and that would solve things for both of us. However, its ironic that when he hears that I am hanging out with other guys (friendship) he gets pissed off, so of course its confusing.
    I know deep inside, he loves me because feelings do not change from one day to another. BUt the person he’s turned into now is completely cold hearted and distant. Not soo much agressive anymore but just cold and distant. When I ask him if he realizes that he’s distancing himself from me by cutting communication he says “no I am not, I am just making new friends and trying to move on from all this and travel and do new things that I now enjoy without any sadness and my friends never talk about anything negative, we laugh and talk about positive things”. Another important thing I forgot to mention is that he has not disclosed to his family that about the suicide attempt and I am the only one that knows. I called his sister to inform her but in South America, they dont always think depression is that serious so she didnt pay much attention to me. Additionally he hides his depression so well from everyone and does not allow anyone to get into his private life, I am the only one that he’s actually opened up to about everything. The friends he hangs out with dont know the real situation, he told them that he broke up with his girlfriend that that he was a BIT depressed so of course they are hanging out with him to support him and providing advice based on what he said.
    Does this hurt me? I honestly have never gone through such pain before. This is the man I was going to marry and spend teh rest of my life with. He still wants to maintain communication with me and has promised that when he’s ready to get help, he will tell me. I told him that I will be there for him that that he needed to initiate the process first.
    I guess what I would like to know is (based on your experience). He;s going through sooo much and I want him to get better and I have hope that he will (not soo much expectation) and I am telling myself that our relationship is over so I can go through the grieving process which is extremely painful but this is my mind talking. My heart wants him to get better so that we can pick up our relationship where we left off. He does not have the family support where he lives. I am afraid that if I cut communication, he will think that I have forgotten about him and that now there is nothing to live for. I know I have no control over him or what he does at all but I want to help him. Any suggestions, advice is highly appreciated.

    john says:
    October 26, 2009 at 10:13 pm
    Dear Shelly -
    There’s so much anguish and hurt in your writing, and your words bring me right into the center of this storm you’re in. I wish I could wave a wand to help you or list the five sure-fire things to do in a situation like this (there are many writers who will give you a list, of course), but I can’t. The man has put himself so out of reach that it is hard for me to see any way that you could help him. And I hope you understand that you cannot bring him back from depression – or help him in any decisive way. Only he can do that, and right now he’s cutting himself off not just from you and the rest of his old life but from reality. He wants to hear only positive things, hang out with people who don’t know him deeply, won’t remind him of anything unpleasant and actually “protect” him from facing the fullness of life. Talking to a therapist only makes him feel “worse” so he rejects that, and that decision helps keep him at a distance from what he actually feels – and from whatever it is he so deeply needs to avoid. He also seems not to be feeling much of anything. All of these are symptoms and experiences come with depression.
    I’ve lived through periods of behaving as he is now. Depression was so dominant that it didn’t seem to be a serious problem. I was taking medication and didn’t feel so down all the time. I was sure everything was looking up – all I needed was a completely new life, and I’d be fine! I didn’t for a moment question that kind of thinking.
    The depth of feeling you have seems inaccessible to him at this point. If anything, it scares him – and that may come across as anger. That’s why attempts to get through and be helpful might backfire and only put you through more pain. It’s hard to reawaken or appeal to the feelings you have shared in the past when that’s exactly what he’s shutting out.
    I may be way off base with this – and that makes me all the more hesitant to suggest really specific things for you to do. All I can describe is what my wife did when I was in a very similar state. She kept reminding me that I had her love and that of my children and also that I was jeopardizing everything I had. She learned the hard way that she couldn’t change what I was going through and that it was better for her to let me know what her limits were. She was firm and loving at the same time and never hesitated to show her anger as well as hurt. While I was dishing out emotional abuse and living in a fantasy land, she was a touchstone of real, complicated life and feelings. But if I hadn’t turned myself around and decided to get on top of depression, we couldn’t have stayed together. I’ve written about all this in several posts here because all that was about the most powerful painful set of experiences I’ve ever gone through.
    That example is really what I have to offer. I so hope this can offer some help to you at a terrible time.
    All love to you -

    Shelly says:
    October 18, 2009 at 6:07 pm
    I am glad to have found this blog because it helps me understand what my partner is going through at this moment. We’ve been on a long distance relationship for 6 years and he broke up with me after trying to commit suicide a few months ago. Yes he went through the 4 phases that are mentioned on this blog (anger, emptyness, remorse feelings, etc.
    At first I did not understand what was happening, he is the one that told me that he tried to commit suicide and that our long distance relationship was destroying him (even though one week before this happened, we were planning our engagement and wedding to finally be together) and he cried so much saying that he tried everything but his passion for our relationship disappeared (although his thoughts were different one week prior, we were soooo in love). I was confused and in denial, I called him everyday to try to convince him to think things through and he said “no”.
    He finally asked for some space and asked me to stop contacting him. Surprisingly enough, he decided to make new friends and wanted to start a new life. I was still soo confused and extremely hurt. I gave him the space he asked for because it was better than talking to him and getting hurt by his distant attitute and aggressiveness towards me (keeping in mind this man is known to be extremely passive and sweet).
    After two weeks, I contacted him as I was dying to know how he was doing, he picked up the phone and still seemed surprised to hear from me and told me he was busy and would call me back. Of course he did not call back that night and I was finally told by friends to leave him alone for at least one month. Surprisingly enough, he called 3 days later with a different attitude, wanting to know how I was doing, concerned and at that point I asked him how he was doing and he was actually open about his situation and said he was feeling better.
    I took advantage of his positive attitude and suggested he seeks therapy, well he was not in agreement with this. He is on the medication (for 8 weeks now) but aside from his positive attitude its hard to tell how he’s feeling as he does not want to talk about it.
    Just last week, we agreed to talk on the internet (something he hates doing since he’s been depressed because he wants to isolate away and the internet makes him feel really exposed)he logged in and basically told me that he did not want to talk about his situation and wanted to put it in the past because otherwise the remorse feelings for ending our relationship was going to smother him and he did not want this so he wanted to scape from the physical location he was in and decided to leave the city for the weekend. He told me I was very special in his life and that he wanted me to take care of myself and that everything that was going on had nothing to do with me and that it was him and his life and things that were happening with him.
    Sorry to give soo many details but as you can see, this man sees that he’s depressed and he has admitted this to mme. However, he does not want to seek therapy because he does not think it will help him even though he’s on medication. Another reason for not seeking therapy is because he says that the therapist/psychologist opens up wounds that he wants to heal overtime and his belief is that by going to therapy, he feels worse.
    I love this man to death and yes I know that I am supposed to be taking care of myself which I’m trying to do but I do not want to lose him to his depression. Now at times it seems that he’s getting better, whereas other times, I feel (through his moods swings) that he’s sstill stuck in that hole. He’s been working out excessively, changed his friends for new ones (weird) and changed his hobbies to something else as well.
    I would like to know based on our situation (long distance in different countries), what I can do to help? HI have huge influence over him and I know he cares for me in a huge way. I am even willing to go see him but I am asking myself if that would even help. I dont nag about getting help but I would like to get through his depression so that he seeks the appropiate treatment.

    john says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:57 am
    Hi, Shelly -
    I’m really sorry to be so late in responding to your comment and the last several here – it’s just a busy time!
    This is such a difficult thing to go through with your partner – especially when he won’t talk and breaks contact. Refusing to get therapy after a suicide attempt is pretty extreme and just shows how much he’s wrapped up in the idea – I would call fantasy – that he can deal with everything on his own by getting a whole new life. Of course he can’t. Until he finds this isn’t working, though, and starts to deal with those wounds that he thinks will heal on their own, it’s hard to see that you can do very much. Even though I think he’s relying on a fantasy of external change as the answer to internal pain, his feelings and conviction are certainly real, if desperate. It’s really hard to get through the barriers he’s put up. The encouraging thing is that he tells you what’s happening to him has nothing to do with you. That’s exactly right – and it’s an important realization.
    I know how frustrating and hurtful it has to be, but if my experience is any guide, at this point he’s just not the person you know. One thing I’m not clear on from what you’ve written is whether or not you’ve told him the whole truth of what this is doing to you. I think that’s important – though it might not make an immediate difference.
    It’s so hard for me to give advice, not knowing you or the full extent of this. All I can really do is speak from what happened to me and my marriage – perhaps that’s of some help.
    And, yes, I do hope you can take care of yourself. That’s no easy thing to do.
    All my best to you – John

    Anonymous1 says:
    June 26, 2009 at 11:43 am
    About 2 1/2 months ago, my partner of many years broke up with me out of nowhere. He had been suffering from depression, which seemed to be getting worse and worse. He lived his life prior to that with GAD and then he had a car accident, not his fault, someone hit him and that’s when the depression started. His anxiety worsened and he started getting panic attacks, etc. His family doctor put him on several medicines and suggested that he seek psychiatric help. He had many reservations, but as he too felt his condition was worsening he sought help but only wanted to have his medicine regulated and not to talk about it with anyone. The first medicine made a markedly good change in him but it gave him palpitations so they had to change it. The second medicine made him worse and what was even worse than that is they continually put him off when he asked to have it changed. They told him it takes time.
    After about 1 month on it he started staying in his room all the time withdrawing from people and social situations, etc. And then about 1 week and a half before he broke up with me he was very short, always seemed angry and when I would call he seemed mad. At that time, I did not really understand what was happening to him and didn’t even try to pretend I did. I just kept asking if there was anything I could do? He always told me no. I told him if he needed sometime alone I would respect that (big mistake)he responded with “I will have to think about it” Even worse, I told him I didn’t know what to say to him anymore because I felt like everything I said was just making him angry (another big mistake). I tried my hardest to apologize in a way that would make him understand why I was feeling this way. I told him that the way he was feeling affected me to that if he hurt, i hurt, if he was happy, i was happy (later I learned not a good thing to do) For the next two days, he had very brief conversations with me. He never even told me goodnight or that he loved me after that.
    On that last day, i called him while he was napping so I offered to call him later. He seemed in a reasonable mood and so I called him later as I said he would and when his mom told him I was on the phone, I could feel the anger and rage when he told her “Tell her I will call her back” About half an hour later he called me and said “I just called you back because I said I would, It’s over, we’re done, I am breaking up with you!” When I asked “Why?” he told me “You don’t deserve to know!” Then he was silent for a bit while I continued asking “Why?” and he just hung up. I have not heard from him since. I had trying texting professing my love for him, telling him I would be here if he needed me, that sort of thing. No response. I then switched to trying to leave light-hearted messages, just asking how he was doing. No reponse. I would wave to him in the street and he would pretend I didn’t exist.
    I decided to take sometime and look at myself as the source of the problem and realized that many of the problems that we had in our relationship pre- and during his depression were because I was needy and clingy and after a great deal of self-introspection and work on my own issues, I have been able to become a better more confident person, secure in myself as an individual. It led me to believe that I was probably the worst thing for him at that time in his life. I had to take care of me first to be at all helpful to him. I even sent him a message when I came upon this epiphany telling him that we both needed space right now, etc.
    My trouble is I still love him and I just wonder do you think it is possible that he could even consider getting back together with me? Somewhere on his road to recovery. There is a lot I do not understand about depression and men and I just wonder if you know of anyone where this has happened before. And if he does go into depression again (it runs in his family) or is still suffering from it what can I do or not do to make it easier for us both? Also, how long would you wait before you would contact him again. I want to give him some time to heal. He went back to work for about a month, but about two weeks ago he seems to have taken another leave and I saw him earlier today on my way to the post office coming out of the counselor’s office and he lost sooo much weight. Does it go back and forth like that?

    john says:
    June 26, 2009 at 12:10 pm
    Hi, Anonymous1 -
    Thank you for your willingness to share such a painful story. As I’ve said before here, I can only speak from my own experience. I’m not a therapist, and, of course, there is much more to know about a long-term relationship.
    Is it possible he could consider getting back together with you? Anything is possible, but I think he would first have to face the full impact of depression, realize that it’s not you that causing whatever pain he’s been experiencing and take charge of his own treatment. And, of course, start talking to you about what he’s going through.
    It’s great that you’ve had that moment of insight about the need to take care of yourself. That’s basic as well. I’d be tolerant of whatever feelings you’ve been going through since a breakup like this is so traumatic – it takes a lot of time to settle down enough to get some distance about what’s happened. Getting some form of counseling or therapy has been helpful to me, but that may not be the right approach for you. Support of some kind for yourself can really help. I know a few people who have isolated themselves after being left – in those cases, they felt embarrassed, humiliated and had a hard time facing friends. That can be another part of the loss.
    You can email me if you want to talk further about this.
    All my best to you -

    Jaliya says:
    June 25, 2009 at 12:50 am
    Hi, John … I’ve been awake through this night and have been perusing your beautiful blog … I love the garden photos … and Sylvie! Is she yours?
    About books: the one book I would recommend above all others is *A General Theory of Love*, by Lewis Thomas et. all (three authors altogether). This book states the most obvious things in a way that lyrically conjoins clinical and human truths with philosophy and a poetic sensibility … Essentially, the authors state that loving relation is the pivot around which our health turns …

    john says:
    June 25, 2009 at 10:16 am
    Thank you, Jaliya (that’s such a beautiful name!) -
    I’ll let my wife know you like the photos – those are hers as well. And Sylvie is definitely ours – one of four cats, each so different.
    Thanks for recommending the book. I actually got it some time ago, but for some reason never got into it – I’ll do that now.
    And thank you for your kind words about the blog – though I hope it wasn’t the reason you were up all night. Get some sleep!
    All my best -


    Talking to Depression – 2
    by John Folk-Williams

    I’ve written an overview post in this series on Depression Central, and I hope you’ll have a look at that. Thanks.

    Talking to a depressed partner can be more than frustrating. It can feel hopeless when you’re faced with a slammed door shutting you out completely or a furious attack full of blame and rejection. If your partner says anything, the words are likely either accusing you as the cause for the onset of severe depression, or angrily denying there’s any problem at all. Or you may not get any response and have to deal with someone who is emotionally absent, empty of feeling, gone from the relationship. This is likely the worst crisis you’ve ever faced with your partner.

    The First Step

    I discussed in a previous post some approaches recommended by prominent authors to the partners of depressed people and mentioned Julie Fast’s “big picture” plan as the one that made the most sense to me.

    The first step toward healing for your partner, as well as yourself and the relationship, is to recognize that it’s depression driving you apart. Both partners need to be able to sense the early signs of its onset. But only your partner can make a commitment to action and take charge of their own treatment. There are some ways you can help with this process, but you can’t do it for them or take on the leading role in recovery. That’s not your job. You didn’t cause the problem. You can’t cure it.

    I’d like to describe here how difficult that first step of recognition was in my case and then look at a method for getting a clearer picture of what’s happening, one that proved effective for my wife and for me. With the understanding and insight gained from that work, it slowly became possible to communicate without getting caught up in confrontations driven by depression.

    Recognizing the Shadow in the House

    As I’ve mentioned in an earlier post, for years I had a very limited understanding of what depression could do. Apart from the feelings of bleakness and despair, I never grasped that so many other things I was experiencing were linked to this condition. That’s important to know because a partner may be in treatment for depression but not be dealing with all its effects and distortions of thought and feeling.

    I assumed that other symptoms, now so familiar to those who have tried to educate themselves about this condition, were either a part of my nature or were caused by some external circumstance. The anxiety, the obsessive way of thinking, the inability to focus and mental blank-outs seemed to be limitations that I could not change, even though they were by no means permanent.

    My constant negative thinking and the shame I felt seemed justified by my inner failings. Projecting negative judgments about myself into the minds and attitudes of others also felt like reality. That’s the way they must be judging me. Everyone should think badly of me because I was empty inside.

    On the other hand, I blamed my wife for the problems I imagined were plaguing our relationship. I could certainly see that I was contributing to them, but that didn’t stop me from raging at her and our kids for everthing – and for nothing.

    All of this made any real communication about what was happening completely impossible. I cast around me a net of control to capture and hold everything still. Most of my crazy behavior was based on fear of ripping that net. Everything I saw felt like part of me, an extension of my nervous system. On the surface, I was enraged at each unexpected tremor, sudden shift, raised voice, spontaneous action.

    But anger can be a mask for fear, and inwardly I often burned in fear, even panic. Any effort by my wife to tell me what she was seeing in me and the effect it was having on her and our children only prompted more anger as I denied I had any problem and shut her out even more.

    How did we begin to cut through the defenses and barriers to real communication? At calmer moments, we applied some tools we had learned from a therapist and gradually retrained our reactions to each other. That process made a breakthrough possible, but it was a long time coming.

    Ideas on Coping with a Depressed Partner

    As Julie Fast suggests in Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder, making lists of what works with your partner and yourself is a helpful starting point. That process begins by writing down changes in behavior and learning how those changes relate to the symptoms of depression.

    Then, it’s important to list the specific actions, tones of voice, words and physical gestures – everything you perceive when the familiar partner is slipping away into depression. These steps make it clear that depressed partners are no longer the same people you’ve known but have been transformed by a condition they may not recognize at all or just can’t control. Next, think about your own responses to what the “new” and estranged partners are doing. By writing down those reactions – not just the feelings but also what you’ve said and done – it may be possible to separate the responses that seemed to get nowhere from those that helped move toward a truer dialogue.

    Julie Fast gives many examples of how to focus on what works, but she also understands how hard it is. Faced with irrational and abusive attacks that threaten the core relationship and tear into one’s own self-esteem, no one can stand back and calmly set aside the raw emotions of the moment. For one thing, the “well” partners have plenty of issues of their own. They may have experience with depression, anxiety, fears of abandonment, damaged self-esteem, a history of abuse. Everyone has vulnerabilities, and it is often those dimensions that are the targets of of a depressed partner’s abuse.

    To be most effective, though, learning from such methods has to be shared, if at all possible. The burden can’t fall on one person. In our case, I had enough periods when depression receded that I could work with my wife in therapy and begin practicing ways of catching myself early on. That didn’t stop repeated episodes of illness, but it did give my wife something to appeal to when I started going into a tailspin. She could tell me what she was observing before I got out of control – the initial irritability, obsessive thinking, secluding myself, constant frowning, never looking directly at her. Her ability to do this gave me pause because I could see where I was heading. If I could admit to her that she was right, I was getting depressed, we could both focus on the illness instead of getting into a blaming match.

    Many depressed partners are beyond reach and refuse to talk at all. Even in those cases, though, working through this method alone at least helps partners of the depressed avoid self-blame or the trap of believing they can fix the problem on their own.

    But no matter how severe the depression, the effects of abuse and irrationality are real and can’t be allowed to continue. It’s especially important for the unreachable partners to face the consequences of the pain and damage they inflict on their familes. If nothing else works, a boundary has to be sharply drawn. More than once, I faced an ultimatum from my wife, and that forced me to acknowledge the havoc I was causing and to get serious about treatment. As addicts often say, it wasn’t until they lost everything that they finally admitted they were out of control and could begin recovery. Unchecked depression can be that bad. The illness pushes everyone affected by it toward destruction, and it can take extreme measures to stop it.

    These methods helped us avoid the extreme, but every relationship has different needs. Does this one sound feasible in your case? Have you found any method that works for you?

  • Virtual Chitchatting 2:00 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    purpose of hope in a purposeless life 

    2014-07-10 01:43 PM
    20140321 1400

    raising hope
    building hope
    hope & purpose of life
    systems of survival
    reinventing hope & purpose in life
    rediscover purpose
    finding an overarching purpose

    The very purpose of our life is happiness,…
    Dalai Lama
    18 April 2014

    The very purpose of our life is happiness, which is sustained by hope. We have no guarantee about the future, but we exist in the hope of something better. Hope means keeping going, thinking, ‘I can do this.’ It brings inner strength, self-confidence, the ability to do what you do honestly, truthfully and transparently.


    The Purpose of Hope, and namely, Life
    seekinghelp1000 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:06 pm

    I would just like to pose an open-ended question to everyone who visits these forums. What is the purpose of hope in a purposeless life?

    Before you start to think that I’m in the midst of a suicidal tirade, let me politely explain that life is purposeless because whatever we do here on earth ultimately ends and that we all share the same fate (death), regardless of our stature with respect to society or monetary value.

    Certainly, we can hope for afterlife. In fact, that makes sense. Hoping for things that will make a lasting impact, as opposed to an ephemeral impact, on our souls should be the driving force in our hopes.

    And certainly we can hope for a better life. But as stated, life is short. It is misdirected hope. Why waste all of your hope on something that will inevitably end anyway? Let’s direct it all toward the one thing that truly matters anyway.

    Chucky » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:27 pm
    What is the one thing that ‘truly matters’? You’ve lost me on that. You are correct though: Life is meaningless and there’s little point in doing anything. That’s the way a depressed person thinks, however, and another way to look at it is that we only have finite amount of time and should make the best of it. There is no apparent purpose – true – but we can make our own purpose(s). To be honet with you, I draw comfort from the fact that nothing I do will ever matter in the grand scale of the Universe. It takes pressure off me and gives me a sense of freedom.

    seekinghelp1000 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:45 am
    The one thing that truly matters is eternal afterlife, by the way.
    As far as your points, you have a lot of points that I agree with it, however, I don’t necessarily believe someone has to be depressed to have these feelings. Someone that finally understands that life is more or less useless doesn’t have to be sad. He/she could be happy, as you say, to know that nothing he/she does will ever matter in the cosmic grand scheme of things.

    by bruceselfhelpguy » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:00 am
    I once heard someone say the whole point of life is to appreciate it and be happy. It’s a gift. Enjoy it while you have it. It was so simple, and it rang true for me.
    Having hope / optimism contributes to happiness. I recall reading psychological newsbits that optimistic people are happier in general.
    favorite site: http://www.zentactics.com
    Do not take my advice, or anyone else’s, before talking to your doctor/counselor/other professional. Depending on where you live, you may be able to find free, confidential care. And most importantly, sometimes your therapist can be wrong. So get a second opinion.

    by seekinghelp1000 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:18 pm
    bruceselfhelpguy wrote:
    I would agree that hope and optimism contributes to happiness, but isn’t it true that your happiness is hollow or baseless when your hope is false?

    by antisthenes » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:25 pm
    seekinghelp1000 wrote:
    bruceselfhelpguy wrote:
    but is it better to be “real” and miserable, or falsely happy? i am strongly inclined to the former- give me both barrels and put some stank on it. i’d rather know the truth and deal, than live on false pretenses. lol ironic. nevermind that.
    false happiness is a form of ignorance, and ignorance leads to failure. any happiness obtained on false pretenses in tenuous at best. the slightest knock and you are off your pedestal.
    however, if it is a matter of “glass half empty/glass half full”, then the only semantic involved is perspective. guess it all depends on how thirsty you are….
    it is easier to get forgiveness than permission….

    by seekinghelp1000 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:34 pm
    I like how you think. Real and miserable means more than fake and happy, as far as experiences go. But if you can’t deal with real/miserable, I guess fake/happy is where it’s at.

    by antisthenes » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:53 pm
    hope is a tool. and… no i’m not gonna finish that statement lol.

    but hope is, in fact a tool. it is why so many people make so many ridiculous decisions. they “hope” they will keep their job long enough to pay off that new SUV. they “hope” they get that promotion next year to keep up with the adjustable rate on their mortgage. they “hope” someday, someone will swoop in on a big white horse and make everything peachy. i call it “happily ever after syndrome”. it’s always hope that keeps them chasing that dangling carrot. relegate “hope” to the ash bin, and what is left? freedom.
    it is easier to get forgiveness than permission….

    by seekinghelp1000 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:28 pm
    so you’re saying hope confines us? interesting, i like it.

    by FrayedEndOfSanity » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:28 pm
    Oh, I like this topic! And Bruce–I’m flattered. ;)
    I’ve heard the saying that an optimist sets herself up for disappointment, and a pessimist for pleasant surprises–to the extent that a pessimist can enjoy a “pleasant surprise.”
    I’ve been struggling with hope lately. I’ve recently experienced a backslide with my social anxiety, mistrust and paranoia. I’m feeling like the runt of the litter. Shortly before I read this topic, I lay there thinking, “Why do I set myself up for a fall by hoping that I’ll get better?”
    And then there’s this thread. :)
    My personal opinion is this: Hope is passive. It’s a crutch, but it’s also a trap. Too many people just hope that things will get better without doing a damn thing about it. You can “hope” all day that the chicken will fall out of the fridge and cook itself. Or, you can get your ass up and go make some soup. That’s being active. It might be crappy soup, but at least you won’t be hungry. It might be excellent soup, and you’ll enjoy it so much that you’ll lick the spoon. The point is that I’ve decided to not sit there and “hope” that things will get better for me someday. I’m going to make the best of things right now.
    Screw the glass and whether it’s half full or half empty. It’s what’s IN the glass that matters. If it’s a good red wine, at least I had half a glass. If it’s sh!t, at least I didn’t have to drink the whole thing.
    I’m gonna go make some soup.
    Do not take my advice or anyone else’s before talking to your doctor/counselor/other professional. Depending on where you live, you may be able to find free, confidential care. Most importantly, sometimes your shrink can be wrong. Get a second opinion.
    If I don’t respond to a thread and there’s an issue–PM me.

    by antisthenes » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:31 pm
    excellent- hope betrays and murders action. action is freedom. thank you for so eloquently outlining my point. :)

    by FrayedEndOfSanity » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:17 pm
    My pleasure. Although I have to disagree on one thing. I don’t think that hope is an automatic or inherent killer of action.
    I agree that hope is like a warm bed: easy to get into, hard to get out of and do anything. And the more you lie there, the more things stagnate. However, I think that a bit of hope can be motivational. If you’re faced with a difficult task, it can help to envision a positive outcome. On the other hand–repeated, chronic failure to achieve an expected result does pretty much kill any future motivation. And it does feel like betrayal. So I agree with you 99%, with the 1% being the difference in how hope is used.
    Mmmm…soup. :)

    by bruceselfhelpguy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:20 pm
    My personal opinion is this: Hope is passive. It’s a crutch, but it’s also a trap. Too many people just hope that things will get better without doing a damn thing about it. You can “hope” all day that the chicken will fall out of the fridge and cook itself. Or, you can get your ass up and go make some soup. That’s being active…
    Right on Frayed. Action is the key to change.
    Oh, I like this topic! And Bruce–I’m flattered.
    :D Yes, it sounds like you don’t mind I “borrowed” your disclaimer. I can change my sig if you do :oops:
    favorite site: http://www.zentactics.com

    by FrayedEndOfSanity » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:59 pm
    I don’t mind at all. :)

    by bruceselfhelpguy » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:26 am
    Thanks Frayed :D

    by dominicjoel » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:25 am
    Hope. Such a lot of meaning in a little word. It’s so hard to hold onto any of it. Hope in the afterlife? I try to believe, but even my tiny smattering of historical knowledge tells me that the afterlife, in it’s Christian guise at least – Heaven and Hell, call it what you will – is a fiction, a made-up thing. Maybe I am missing the bigger picture, maybe I don’t know how to look, how to hope, but I have tried.
    So, hope in this life. That’s even harder. Someone said ‘we create our own meaning.’ How exactly? And what happens if, after decades of trying, you come slowly to the realisation that everything you’ve created, the life you’ve made for yourself, is just rubbish, what then? :?

    by StanleyMalloy » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:37 pm
    You shouldn’t worry about the if’s and what’s. Those words exist in the same realm as hope. They’re questions- indicators of The Unknown. If there is no possible way to define the unknown (answering the question) and make it known (understanding the answer), then avoid it at all costs! All faith is blind, as faith by definition, is the complete conviction of an unanswered answer.
    Although if you find comfort in the timeless creed of “ignorance is bliss” (and in certain situations, I agree with its use) then by all means, make use of it in the way you would an ointment- apply a small amount to the painful area and seek help immediately if your condition worsens.
    But of course people always will worry, and I don’t blame us. The Unknown is one of the most fearsome things that is constantly looming over our heads and all around us, so at times it can be very difficult to avoid worrying about it.
    (Here’s an interesting afterthought- are there any unanswerable answers? Hard to tell with this whole “future” thing you have to take into account. Anything can happen in the future because the future is unknown… right? Hell- I’ll leave it to the professionals to respond to that)


    Purpose of Life
    by Mike Bennett

    Why were you born? What is the purpose of life?

    Why were you born? We all hope that our lives have meaning, though most are still searching for the purpose of life. What does God intend for us?

    Many of us keep ourselves so busy between work, chores and our leisure activities that there’s really little time to think deep thoughts about the meaning of life.

    But occasionally, somewhere in the back of our minds, we have a nagging feeling that there must be something more. There must be a purpose for our lives-something we were meant to be or accomplish.

    Thoughts like these can come to our minds at those emotionally charged transition periods of our life: when we leave home, get our first job, get married, have children, have an empty nest or retire.

    Even more, questions about the purpose of life come when we lose a loved one or friend. Being reminded of our own mortality can lead us to analyze our lives and seek deeper meaning to it all.

    It’s the most important philosophical question; yet at the same time, it is deeply practical. Knowing our purpose gives direction to our lives. A life full of purpose is a life of vitality, excitement and ultimately success.

    So what is the purpose of life-of your life?

    A grand experiment

    Is the purpose of life to pursue happiness-through comedy, music and other entertainment? Through mood-altering substances? Through enjoying fine food and other perks of the rich and famous?

    Or what about through great building projects or other great accomplishments that will make a mark on this world and be remembered for years to come?

    Many have attempted these and similar pursuits in their attempt to find true purpose in life. One wealthy man in particular experimented with all these things and more, and still came to a disconcerting conclusion:

    “Whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I did not withhold my heart from any pleasure, for my heart rejoiced in all my labor; and this was my reward from all my labor. Then I looked on all the works that my hands had done and on the labor in which I had toiled; and indeed all was vanity and grasping for the wind” (Ecclesiastes 2:10-11).

    God had given King Solomon great wealth and great wisdom. His experiments in seeking purpose in life were not half-hearted! And he did find some satisfaction in the things he tried. But he, like the rest of us in quiet moments of reflection, still wondered, Is this all there is? Are these physical and temporary things really why I was born? It is all so fleeting and temporary-like trying to catch the wind.

    If all the money in the world can’t buy a meaningful life or give us its purpose, what can deprivation teach us?

    A view from the depths

    Viktor E. Frankl experienced the depths of human misery in the Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II. Soon after the war, he wrote Man’s Search for Meaning and described the degrading and dehumanizing conditions prisoners experienced.

    Even during a frozen predawn march punctuated with blows from rifle butts, his mind searched for meaning through vivid thoughts about his wife:

    “A thought transfixed me: for the first time in my life I saw the truth as it is set into song by so many poets, proclaimed as the final wisdom by so many thinkers. The truth-that love is the ultimate and the highest goal to which man can aspire. Then I grasped the meaning of the greatest secret that human poetry and human thought and belief have to impart: The salvation of man is through love and in love. I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved. In a position of utter desolation, when man cannot express himself in positive action, when his only achievement may consist in enduring his sufferings in the right way-an honorable way-in such a position man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment” (pp. 56-57).

    What a beautiful, yet tragic, thought. Viktor Frankl’s wife died in the camps, and he never had the chance to see her again.

    Love and family

    Dr. Frankl and the poets were on to something. Love and family are essential elements of the true purpose of life. But there’s so much more to it than Dr. Frankl experienced in those fleeting moments of bliss. In fact, there’s much more to life’s purpose than any human being, in the very best of circumstances, has experienced yet during this short lifetime.

    All of us, whether in a concentration camp, a beautiful chateau or a cancer ward, face a mortal enemy that robs us of life and purpose. That enemy is death.

    But the purpose God has for our lives goes beyond our physical bodies and our temporary lives. God offers human beings the chance to prepare now to have a purposeful, meaningful life-forever! God has put “eternity in their hearts” (Ecclesiastes 3:11). He didn’t create us to burn like a candle for just a short time, but-if we will accept the incredible mission and purpose He has for us-to shine “like the stars forever and ever” (Daniel 12:3)!

    God’s essential characteristic is love (1 John 4:8). He created us and gives us purpose in life because He loves us. And He wants us to learn the eternal joys of this complete and perfect love!

    And as we explore the Bible, just when we think it can’t get any better, it does! Not only does God want to love us and to love us forever-He wants us to become His children! Not just servants, and not even just friends of God-but His literal children!

    Children of God

    “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God!” (1 John 3:1). Jesus Christ is not ashamed to call His faithful followers “brethren,” and His plan and our purpose include helping bring “many sons to glory” (Hebrews 2:10-11).

    God is expanding His family, and the purpose of life is to become part of that family! He wants us to be His children and heirs forever, helping Him in His work.

    Inspired by the purpose of life

    Some have derided Christians for being so heavenly-minded that they were no earthly good. But true Christianity and true understanding of the purpose of life is very practical and beneficial for this life.

    The Bible teaches that this life is preparation for eternity. We are to learn to treat others as we want to be treated-for eternity! We fulfill our responsibilities and grow in the godly, righteous character that will allow us to be like our Father-forever!

    We are in training now for an incredible inheritance beyond our comprehension. The things we suffer now prepare us for that purpose. Tests and trials are all part of that training process to help us be ready to live and reign with Christ for a thousand years-and beyond (Revelation 20:4)!

    Looking back, we will consider, as the apostle Paul said, “that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” (Romans 8:18).

    Explore in your own Bible this amazing purpose of your life! We hope this website will help you understand and act on the purpose God has for you.


    Finding Purpose in Life – Viktor Frankl
    by John Folk-Williams
    December 8, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Viktor Frankl’s central theme was the necessity of finding purpose in life. As he tells the powerful story in Man’s Search for Meaning, he learned that this was the only way to survive the tortures of a Nazi concentration camp.

    In creating his own form of psychotherapy, which he called logotherapy, he identified three ways of arriving at meaning in one’s life. They are work, love and the one he believed was most important, the ability to rise above oneself.

    When faced with tragedy and situations that were unalterable, he believed that a person could escape the feeling of being a helpless victim. The key was to find meaning in the suffering itself and to define a guiding purpose that could change the direction of one’s life.

    These are the themes of this brief video. It is an excerpt from a talk he gave to a group of Canadian Youth Corps volunteers in 1972. The quality is poor, and the excerpt begins in mid-sentence. Nevertheless, it captures the spirit of Frankl’s own driving purpose in helping people change their lives.

    Do you think this is a feasible way to turn around the feeling of being helpless in the face of depression? Has this idea aided your search for a way to begin recovery?

    Noch Noch says:
    December 10, 2011 at 7:25 pm
    agreed – once i decided that my “suffering” was the beginning of something “greater”, i started to embrace it, and search for what is “greater” within me, and stopped feeling so helpless and a victim. that was the day i began my recovery…

    John Folk-Williams says:
    December 12, 2011 at 10:31 pm
    Hi, Noch -
    That’s fortunate – to see the suffering itself as part of something greater. So often I’ve been stuck trying to get rid of the suffering altogether, as if that could never be part of a meaningful life.

    Judy says:
    December 8, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    I loved this, John! I do believe that this is a way to turn around feelings of helplessness. Sometimes I stop and think about the journey my depression has taken me on and I am awed, mostly because of the people that I’ve met along the way who have been of so much help and also the people I’ve met whom I’ve been able to help. Healing myself has allowed me to be of use to others – a purpose greater than myself. I also feel like I’ve become a much more spiritual person than I was when I was part of an organized religion; I found out that the “organization” is not the same thing as the spirit. What Frankl says is so basic to emotional health and growth. I know examples of both people who have never seemed to have a higher purpose than themselves and those who certainly do possess that quality and the difference is very striking. Thanks for sharing this.

    John Folk-Williams says:
    December 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm
    Hi, Judy -
    I loved this too and posted right after seeing it. Finding a purpose in communicating with people about depression is a mainstay for me. The problem is: how high can you aim when you’re deeply depressed and convinced everything is hopeless? I’ve always had a lot of plans for big things, and carried some of them off, but those purposes never helped me resolve depression. Yet when I did feel recovered at long last, I could devote myself more completely to writing than had ever been possible. So higher purpose is part of the turnaround but not the most decisive part for me.
    Thanks for commenting.


    Changing Belief, Discovering Purpose in a Work Life
    by John Folk-Williams

    There is a lot to explore in the idea of changing the mindset of recovery to that of finding purpose for the future. Just as I could undo the belief in my perpetual illness, I could also undo the belief that there had been little meaning or value in what I had done in the past. In other words, purpose might not be something I have yet to discover.

    The insistent verdict of depression that I’ve accepted for so long, with its refrain of my worthlessness and failure as a person, only undermined the idea that I could ever have done anything of value in the past, or could in the future. I’ve known for a long time that what depression told me wasn’t true, but I believed that it was. I had to be able to change that mindset, and I remembered a couple of famous quotes:

    • Pascal said in his Pensees about the search of a doubting man for God:

    “You would not be seeking Him, if you had not already found him.”

    • Gandhi once said in a speech, as quoted in Conquest of Violence:

    “The bond of the slave is snapped the moment he considers himself a free being. He will plainly tell the master: I was your bondslave till this moment, but I am a slave no longer…”

    I had to stop thinking I was a slave to this condition; I had to see the purpose I had already found.

    I do not in any way mean to imply that major depression is only a matter of mindset and belief. No distortion of thought and emotion that can drive people to kill themselves could only be that. But it has been true for me that until belief, conviction and thinking had started to change, there was no hope for dislodging depression as the major force in my life.

    How could I begin to sort out my experience and find this purpose and direction – or meaning, as Viktor Frankl puts it? I wanted to focus first on my work life, where I had recently made a huge breakthrough. The new sense of excitement, however, had only served to heighten the contrast with the negative feelings I still had about what I had done in the past. To change that old belief about my life up to that point – especially my work life – I needed some method to start sorting it out and help me cut through the confusion that had previously made this task so difficult.

    Though it’s somewhat embarrassing to admit it, I found a simple tool not in the writing of a philosopher, spiritual leader or psychologist but in a blog post by one of the online gurus of marketing. Chris Brogan *wrote* about the idea that people trying to market their own services needed to present a simple story about who they were, what their passion was and what unifying purpose tied together everything they had done in their careers.

    Taking this method out of the context of “personal branding,” I looked back at the types of work I had done to find that unifying story. A couple of things stood out.

    * I have always tried to interpret between groups and individuals of different values, cultures and histories so they could more effectively communicate and learn from each other.
    * I have always done this work with people in conflict and have had a driving interest in learning what they had faced in their life experiences and how these encounters had shaped their values and beliefs.
    * I have worked through many media and professional roles, but my most effective and fulfilling has been writing.

    To get to the heart of my work life: I’m a writer, interpreter and mediator. Writing is what I’m most passionate about because I love the written word and because it is my method of discovery. It doesn’t even matter how good I might be. It’s what I do.

    This is not news to me at an intellectual level. What has been building for some time – and is new – is the inner conviction, the felt belief, that there is plenty of meaning and value in the essential work I have always done. My purpose is already there, and I’m running with it. This is my way of acting in the world instead of hiding my fearful and doubting self in a thick blanket and imagining I’m invisible.

    That’s an insight about my work life. It’s only step one.

    What have you found in looking back in time to find the purposes that have shaped what you’ve tried to do? Whether you’ve been successful or frustrated is not the point. What’s been there all along?

    Jaliya says:
    April 21, 2009 at 8:24 pm
    Isn’t it amazing to discover / uncover our vocation? In my experience, there’s been an organic unfolding over time … over many years, since I was about 21 years old. I’m now 50 and just beginning to *convict myself* to the work that I do best: writing, editing, reading, thinking, conversing. It’s so much more challenging for those of us who aren’t market-oriented (?) to create our place in the working world … but to arrive at this place of conviction, no matter what happens with it, is such a gift … and a relief.
    Viktor Frankl’s convictions have been reminding me of what is possible (in so many ways) for about 26 years now …
    Thanks, John …

    john says:
    April 21, 2009 at 9:12 pm
    Jalya – It’s also taken me a long time, not so much to find out what my work was, but to knock down a lot of inner walls that stood between me and getting into it as my primary activity. I wish I had found Frankl 26 years ago – and discovered everything I’ve learned in the past two years back then. However, it’s onward from here! I’m so glad you’ve gotten to this point – and can communicate so beautifully what your experience has been.
    My best – John

    Bobby Revell says:
    April 15, 2009 at 6:02 pm
    Hi John! This is an very meaningful article. Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning” is possibly the most important book I’ve ever read (in a deeply personal way).
    Had I not been a drug addict, had I not been homeless, had I not suffered tremendous depression; lack of self belief and really poor self-image, I would have been a totally different person, and I honestly in no way could imagine who that person would have been. I’d say more than anything, it was the horrific events and rising up through it all that shaped exactly who I am. I should be dead, but I am not and I thank God for this gift of life I hold so dear at this very moment. My true love is writing fiction, and I am absolutely dedicated to what I do. I will be published and only death can stop me. Death is my guide to life, and knowing I will die makes me appreciate living. I cannot cry for or bask in past mistakes, but I can live now and for the remainder of my days :smile:

    john says:
    April 15, 2009 at 9:19 pm
    Hi Bobby – What a powerful statement this is! Living now without worry about the past and with determination to do what you’re dedicated to – that is the same lesson I’ve learned. Reading Frankl also helped me see that the struggle I’ve been through to get here is part of my purpose – it has taught me so much, painfully to be sure, but taken me places I needed to go.
    Thanks so much for summing up your profound sense of the gift of life.
    All my best to you – John

    Wellness Writer says:
    April 14, 2009 at 11:35 pm
    I enjoyed this post a lot. I have recently gone through a similar period, and I’ve decided that for me, it’s all a question of perception.
    When I am depressed, it seems like nothing I’ve done has been important, and I can’t find the threads that suggest I’ve been perfecting the skills I’m now using.
    I think about the failures rather than the successes. I look back on years when I wasn’t happy at work, or decided I was pursuing the “wrong career,” and think of it as time-wasted.
    When the depression is over, I look back and realize that everything I’ve done has enabled me to be where I am today, and that’s a good thing. I realize that even when I wasn’t writing about themes that are as important as what I’m currently writing about, I was perfecting my skills.
    And even though it sometimes feels as if I haven’t learned one thing from a lifetime of depressive episodes, I’ve learned a lot.
    When I read the comments from the people who read my blog, I realize that my ability to help and motivate others is due to everything I’ve learned, and my ability to write about it with the clarity that comes from years of perfecting my craft!

    john says:
    April 15, 2009 at 10:30 am
    Hello, Susan – Damn straight your writing is clear – always beautiful work. And you’re so right about all the past work helping to perfect skills rather than being something negative. Isn’t it strange how we can flip from one way of looking at life and another – it’s very opposite?
    One thing that helps me stop the negativity about the past is to realize that whatever regret, pain, harm to others happened – all that was part of a purpose too. That struggle with life in my particular way was what had to be for me to get a much deeper understanding – and, as you say, to inform my writing and help me to share insights with others.
    Thanks so much for this really helpful comment!
    All my best to you – John

    Melinda says:
    April 10, 2009 at 6:16 am
    Great food for thought, John. I need to stop by more regularly (things have been so incredibly hectic for me-as usual, lol).
    One of the things that I have struggled so mightily with is accepting myself as a ‘good person’ -and it really is as simple as that. Likely because of the abuse I endured as a child, I grew up thinking something was terribly wrong with me-I was insecure and lacked self confidence. I believe what happened to me (in part) was a self-fulfilling prophecy; where I had become so used to believing I was ‘bad’ that I became a ‘bad’ person in many ways.
    In recovery, I had to reframe how I viewed myself. And this was on the deepest, most fundamental level. I was not even ready to think of what ‘purpose’ I might have in the world (such as being a psychologist, or a teacher, or a writer), but just in viewing myself in simple, positive terms. That had to be my purpose.
    And it became a real purpose with me-to become a better person and it is something I still work on constantly. To help people who need my assistance-either in small or big ways and to do whatever I could to be of service to the world. That was my purpose and it still is.
    Those random acts of kindness and in giving myself in service to the world have greatly redefined how I view myself. Because I finally started viewing myself in a more positive light-I could then go in further directions with my purpose-such AS being an insightful psychologist, a passionate teacher, or a fledgling writer.
    I loved thinking about this again-thank you, dear friend-
    Take care,

    john says:
    April 11, 2009 at 10:04 pm
    Melinda -
    That’s so true – I’ve been through a similar process – first dealing with the feeling of being wrong, fulfilling some of the negative expectations my parents conveyed, then working for years to change my inner beliefs about myself. For some of us, I suppose, the difficulty of simply trying to live and figuring out how to do that forms the purpose of life. Once through that, we can feel and believe that we are at last who we’d hoped to be – if we survive to get that far. That sense of service to the world – trying to help people through these struggles – is something I should probably have emphasized at the end of this post.
    Thanks, friend, for telling that part of your story here.
    All love to you – John

    Evan says:
    April 10, 2009 at 12:00 am
    I’m here to shed light. Once someone understands or finds their core my distinctive work is over. They will probably want support, help along the way and so – all that is follow up. My job is the shedding of light. The other stuff other people could probably do just as easily (though usually people want to maintain the relationship). I hope this makes sense.

    john says:
    April 11, 2009 at 9:34 pm
    Evan -
    That does make sense, and it’s a wonderful way to put it. Being able to say it in a concise way like that indicates real clarity about who you are and what you do. No surprise, of course, given the wisdom and calmness of your posts.
    Thank you – my best as always -

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:18 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    your unfulfilled sexual desire may lead you to adopt heavy destructive behaviour
    by S3ra Sutan Rajo Ali
    Jakarta, 2014-03-21 13:18

    Freud’s psychoanalytical theory that almost all of humankind’s actions can be traced to sexual instinct is formulated around the idea that unfulfilled sexual desire leads to frustration, which is expressed by aggression. In Frustration and Aggression by John Dollard, et al. (1939), Freud’s theory is further developed with the frustration-aggression hypothesis, which proposes that whenever something prevents a person from achieving a goal, it’s perceived as an obstruction, whether animate or inanimate, and needs to be injured, hence the aggressive drive.

    As it originates from your OCD tendencies, the Obsessive-Compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness, apprehension, fear, or worry; by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing the associated anxiety; or by a combination of such obsessions and compulsions. The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and potentially psychotic.

    You’ll become more reckless, changes or escalation to the torturous behavior. And to deal with such pain, your mind had just snapped. Your mind let you think that it was someone else. You shall become mentally incapacitated. You shall adopt dual personality. The strong woman, the woman who escaped, and the woman who wants to get better.

    “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow, it hides itself in insanity. There are times when reality is nothing but pain. And to escape that pain, the mind must leave reality behind.”
    Patrick Rothfuss


    Aggressive Behavior
    by Kendra Cherry

    Innovative technological advancements result in many positive improvements to our society as a whole as well as in relation to other societies, but they consequently lead to inevitable negative aspects such as weapons of mass destruction. In return, the presence of aggressive behavior in our society continues to rise in part because of our continual exposure to it via the media, movies, and video games, and also in part because of our innate, primitive drive toward instinctive aggression.

    Behind the Wheel of Aggression

    Freud’s psychoanalytical theory that almost all of humankind’s actions can be traced to sexual instinct is formulated around the idea that unfulfilled sexual desire leads to frustration, which is expressed by aggression. In Frustration and Aggression by John Dollard, et al. (1939), Freud’s theory is further developed with the frustration-aggression hypothesis, which proposes that whenever something prevents a person from achieving a goal, it’s perceived as an obstruction, whether animate or inanimate, and needs to be injured, hence the aggressive drive.

    Steering the Wheel of Aggression

    Almost all reported instances of violence, whether in newspapers or on the local news network, fail to give the complete history of the aggressor. More often than not, the chain of events that led up to the eventual crime is pertinent information in attempting to trace the nature of aggressive behavior. The snowball effect, which begins with repressed frustration and leads to a buildup of destructive behavior patterns that manifest themselves in a variety of hostile ways, comes to an end with an ultimate, barbaric act. If the root of this eventual act is not discovered, understood, and treated, the cycle may be triggered and the sequence will begin all over again.

    From a biological standpoint, arousing specific regions of the brain causes equally specific aggressive reactions. Stimulating different regions of a cat’s hypothalamus causes the cat to react either in a wild display of aggression by hissing and striking out or in a sophisticated form of premeditated hunting that results in the prey’s death. Monkeys, on the other hand, follow a hierarchy of dominance and act accordingly based on recollections of past experiences.

    In Chapter 2 you learned about one famous experiment in which children observed an adult beating up and abusing an inflatable doll. When children were later placed in a room with the same doll, many of them imitated the aggressive behavior they observed previously. The children were even more likely to mimic the angry actions if they had observed the adults being rewarded for this type of behavior.

    Since parents possess the most influential power over their children by constantly being observed by their children in natural settings, the way they treat violence and the frequency with which they resort to aggressive behavior is likely to be imitated by their children.

    The Effect of Television and Video Game Violence on Children

    As seen in the experiment with the Bobo doll, young children often imitate viewed aggression because they associate people on television with being role models for adulthood. Children believe the action is justified because a “grownup” did it, and therefore understand it to be a part of “growing up” in today’s society. Television violence’s effect on children results in aggressive behavior for a number of other reasons, including the following:

    1. Elevated levels of arousal – D. K. Osborn and R. C. Endsley’s study published in the journal Child Development (1971) shows how children are more apt to become emotionally aroused while viewing violent programs by measuring the increase in their galvanic skin responses. The increase is notably higher when viewing violent behavior.

    #Excessive exposure leads to desensitizing people to violence – The shock of violent behavior subsides after repeated incidents of violence are experienced, thus stunting our ability to react appropriately and effectively to real-life situations and provide help when needed.

    #Mixed messages on settling conflicts – Children don’t often recognize whether a situation is fictional or based in reality, so when they see the timeless struggle of good versus evil played out on television by their favorite cartoon characters, they also develop a positive image of how good triumphs over evil through violent means.

    The potential impact of video game violence has become a hot topic among psychologists, educators and, parents. In one study by Craig Anderson and Karen Dill (2000), researchers found that participants who played a violent video game scored higher on a measurement of aggression than those who had played a nonviolent video game. Some psychologists suggest that the influence of violent video games may even be more pronounced than television and movies since children are actually taking on the role of the aggressor during game play. In a 2005 report, the American Psychological Association concluded that, based upon their research, exposure to violent video games increases aggressive feelings, thoughts, and behaviors.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:17 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    how to deal with a paranoid, loser, controller, abuser: kill your shrink !
    by S3ra Sutan Rajo Ali
    Jakarta, 2014-03-21 PM 01:17

    when you talk or have paid discussion(s) with any shrink, there is no way, rest assured, you are assessed to be in and to have a normal life and a meaningful one, but a pathetic life.

    mana ada orang gila mengakui dirinya gila.
    yang gila itu ya dokternya yang mencap orang lain gila dan pasiennya gila.

    the lunatic creeps!
    taunya cuma men-judge dan men-judge, ngasih stigma, me-label-kan seseorang itu loser. fyyff !

    mereka membuat tulisan, analogi, analisis dalam perspektif untuk menguntungkan dirinya. tidak dalam kapasitasnya sebagai loser.
    kehidupan seseorang itu sangat dinamis. tidak dalam hitungan hari, tetapi dalam hitungan detik. something can happen in a blink of an eye, in the twinkles of the stars.

    when your mind snaps a memory hidden and buried deep inside, triggered by any means necessary and unnecessary, ye shall may inflict “Superfluous Injury or Unnecessary Suffering”. They call it the SIRUS Project…. ;P http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/SIrUS-project.pdf

    please read the following lunatic perspectives and analysis.


    Are You Dating a Loser? Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships
    By Dr Joseph M Carver, PhD

    If you’re dating a ‘loser’, you may recognize in your partner some of these characteristics described by Consulting Clinical Psychologist Joseph M. Carver, PhD. This article continues with a note on dangerous versions of the ‘loser’ and offers guidelines for detachment. Also see the new “Relationship Quiz: True Love or True Loser?”, which may help you to identify and highlight experiences of concern within your relationship.

    Author’s Comment

    This article was published to the Internet several years ago and was originally written to help identify “Losers” in relationships. The e-mail feedback I have received on the article has been tremendous. It’s clear the article is a way of identifying not only “losers” but controlling, abusive, and manipulating individuals. It’s also obvious these warning signs are not only found in dating relationships – but in our spouse, our parents, our friends, and our relatives. There are more victims in the environment of the Loser than his or her partner.

    I’ve been contacted for help by the friends and loved ones of people involved in relationships with Losers (controlling and/or abusive partners). The loved ones want to understand the situation and ask for recommendations and guidance. For this group I have also recently published “Stockholm Syndrome: The Psychological Mystery of Loving an Abuser”.

    Obviously, this article has created the need for sequels. I hope to publish a guide to assist Losers who want to change their life and behavior. An article addressing sons and daughters who were parented by Losers is also being planned. If our parent or parents have the characteristics listed in this article, our ability to function as a healthy adult may be hindered due to the dysfunctional family/parent model. My goal is to follow this issue and provide help and guidance to all those involved with controlling and abusive individuals – from partners to extended victims.


    Very few relationships start on terms other than sweetness and politeness. In the beginning, “the honeymoon” of the relationship, it’s difficult to determine what type of individual you are dating. Both you and the date are guarded, trying to obtain information about the other as much as possible without seeming like a police detective.

    Romantic relationships can be wonderful with the right person. A relationship with the wrong individual however can lead to years of heartache, emotional/social damage, and even physical damage. A damaging adult partner can damage us, damage our loved ones, and even damage the way we feel about love and romance in the future. They can turn what is supposed to be a loving, supporting, and understanding relationship into the “fatal attraction” often described in movies. A variety of “bad choices” may be encountered each week – most of which are easy to identify and avoid. We all know to avoid people that appear insane or abusive and not select them as a dating partner. However, some individuals are better at hiding their personality and behavior abnormalities. In an effort to provide some warning about these very damaging individuals, this paper will outline a type of individual commonly found in the dating scene, a male or female labeled “The Loser”.

    “The Loser” is a type of partner that creates much social, emotional and psychological damage in a relationship. “The Loser” has permanent personality characteristics that create this damage. These are characteristics that they accept simply as the way they are and not a problem or psychological difficulty. In one sense, they have always lived with this personality and behavior, and it is often something they learned from their relatives/family. Psychologists usually treat the victims of “The Loser”, women or men who arrive at the office severely depressed with their self-confidence and self-esteem totally destroyed.

    The following list is an attempt to outline the characteristics of “The Loser” and provide a manner in which women and men can identify potentially damaging relationships before they are themselves severely damaged emotionally or even physically. If your partner possesses even one of these features, there is risk in the relationship. More than three of these indicators and you are involved with “The Loser” in a very high risk relationship that will eventually create damage to you. When a high number of these features are present – it’s not a ‘probably’ or a ‘possibly’. You will be hurt and damaged by “The Loser” if you stay in the relationship.

    1. Rough Treatment: “The Loser” will hurt you on purpose. If he or she hits you, twists your arm, pulls your hair, kicks you, shoves you, or breaks your personal property EVEN ONCE, drop them. Male losers often begin with behaviors that move you physically or hit the wall. Female losers often slap, kick and even punch their male partners when upset.

    2. Quick Attachment and Expression: “The Loser” has very shallow emotions and connections with others. One of the things that might attract you to “The Loser” is how quickly he or she says “I Love You” or wants to marry or commit to you. Typically, in less than a few weeks of dating you’ll hear that you’re the love of their life, they want to be with you forever, and they want to marry you. You’ll receive gifts, a variety of promises, and be showered with their attention and nice gestures. This is the “honeymoon phase” – where they catch you and convince you that they are the best thing that ever happened to you. Remember the business saying “If it’s too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)!” You may be so overwhelmed by this display of instant attraction, instant commitment, and instant planning for the future that you’ll miss the major point – it doesn’t make sense!! Normal, healthy individuals require a long process to develop a relationship because there is so much at stake. Healthy individuals will wait for a long time and a lot of information before offering a commitment – not three weeks. It’s true that we can become infatuated with others quickly – but not make such unrealistic promises and have the future planned after three dates. The rapid warm-up is always a sign of shallow emotions which later cause “The Loser” to detach from you as quickly as they committed. “The Loser” typically wants to move in with you or marry you in less than four weeks or very early in the relationship.

    3. Frightening Temper: “The Loser” has a scary temper. If your boyfriend or girlfriend blows up and does dangerous things, like driving too fast because they’re mad, breaking/throwing things, getting into fights, or threatening others – that temper will soon be turned in your direction. In the beginning of the relationship, you will be exposed to “witnessed violence” – fights with others, threats toward others, angry outbursts at others, etc. You will also hear of violence in their life. You will see and witness this temper – throwing things, yelling, cursing, driving fast, hitting the walls, and kicking things. That quickly serves to intimidate you and cause you to fear their potential for violence, although “The Loser” quickly assures you that they are angry at others or situations, not at you. At first, you will be assured that they will never direct the hostility and violence at you. But they are clearly letting you know that they have that ability and capability – and that it might come your way. Later, you fear challenging or confronting them – fearing that same temper and violence will be turned in your direction.

    4. Killing Your Self-Confidence: “The Loser” repeatedly puts you down. They constantly correct your slight mistakes, making you feel “on guard”, unintelligent, and leaving you with the feeling that you are always doing something wrong. They tell you that you’re too fat, too unattractive, or don’t talk correctly or look good. This gradual chipping away at your confidence and self-esteem allows them to treat you badly later – as though you deserved it. In public, you will be “walking on eggshells” – always fearing you are doing or saying something that will later create a temper outburst or verbal argument.

    5. Cutting Off Your Support: In order to control someone completely, you must cut off their supportive friends – sometimes even their family. “The Loser” feels your friends and family might influence you or offer negative opinions about their behavior. “The Loser” begins by telling you these friends treat you badly, take advantage of you, and don’t understand the special nature of the love you share with them. In some cases, if they can’t get rid of your best same-sex friend, “The Loser” will claim he or she made a pass at them. If you talk to your friends or family, “The Loser” will punish you by asking multiple questions or making nasty accusations. Eventually, rather than face the verbal punishment, interrogation, and abuse, you’ll develop the feeling that it’s better not to talk to family and friends. You will withdraw from friends and family, prompting them to become upset with you. “The Loser” then tells you they are treating you badly again and you’d be better to keep your distance from them. Once you are isolated and alone, without support, their control over you can increase.

    6. The Mean and Sweet Cycle: “The Loser” cycles from mean to sweet and back again. The cycle starts when they are intentionally hurtful and mean. You may be verbally abused, cursed, and threatened over something minor. Suddenly, the next day they become sweet, doing all those little things they did when you started dating. You hang on, hoping each mean-then-sweet cycle is the last one. The other purpose of the mean cycle is to allow “The Loser” to say very nasty things about you or those you care about, again chipping away at your self-esteem and self-confidence. “The Loser” often apologizes, but the damage to your self-esteem is already done – exactly as planned.

    7. It’s Always Your Fault: “The Loser” blames you for their anger as well as any other behavior that is incorrect. When they cheat on you, yell at you, treat you badly, damage your property, or embarrass you publicly – it’s somehow your fault. If you are ten minutes late for a date, it’s your fault that the male loser drives 80 miles per hour, runs people off the road, and pouts the rest of the evening. “The Loser” tells you their anger and misbehavior would not have happened if you had not made some simple mistake, had loved them more, or had not questioned their behavior. “The Loser” never, repeat never, takes personal responsibility for their behavior – it’s always the fault of someone else. If they drive like a maniac and try to pull an innocent driver off the highway to assault them – it’s actually the fault of the other driver (not his), as they didn’t use a turn signal when they changed lanes. They give you the impression that you had it (anger, yelling, assault) coming and deserved the anger, violence, pouting, or physical display of aggression.

    8. Breakup Panic: “The Loser” panics at the idea of breaking up – unless it’s totally their idea, and then you’re dropped like a hot rock. Abusive boyfriends often break down and cry, they plead, they promise to change, and they offer marriage/trips/gifts when you threaten to end the relationship. Both male and female losers may threaten suicide, threaten to return to old sweethearts (who feel lucky they’re gone!), or threaten to quit their job and leave the area – as though you will be responsible for those decisions. “The Loser” offers a multitude of “deals” and halfway measures, like “Let’s just date one more month!”

    They shower you with phone calls, often every five minutes, hoping that you will make an agreement or see them just to stop the telephone harassment. Some call your relatives, your friends, their friends, and anyone else they can think of – telling those people to call you and tell you how much they love you. Creative losers often create so much social pressure that the victim agrees to go back to the bad relationship rather than continue under the social pressure. Imagine trying to end a relationship and receiving tearful calls from all his or her relatives (they secretly hope you’ll keep them so they don’t have to), seeing a plea for your return in the newspaper or even on a local billboard, receiving flowers at work each day, or having them arrive at your place of work and offer you a wedding ring (male loser technique) or inform you that they might be pregnant (female loser technique) in front of your coworkers! Their reaction is emotionally intense, a behavior they use to keep you an emotional prisoner. If you go back to them, you actually fear a worse reaction if you threaten to leave again (making you a prisoner) and they later frequently recall the incident to you as further evidence of what a bad person you are. Remember, if your prize dog jumps the fence and escapes, when you get him back you build a higher fence. Once back in the grasp of “The Loser” – escape will be three times as difficult the next time.

    9. No Outside Interests: “The Loser” will encourage you to drop your hobbies, interests, and involvement with others. If you have an individual activity, they demand that they accompany you, making you feel miserable during the entire activity. The idea behind this is to prevent you from having fun or interests other than those which they totally control.

    10. Paranoid Control: “The Loser” will check up on you and keep track of where you are and who you are with. If you speak to a member of the opposite sex, you receive twenty questions about how you know them. If you don’t answer their phone call, you are asked where you were, what were you doing, who you were talking to, etc. They will notice the type of mud on your car, question why you shop certain places, and question why you called a friend, why the friend called you, and so forth. Some losers follow you to the grocery, then later ask if you’ve been there in an attempt to catch you in a lie. In severe cases, they go through your mail, look through your purse/wallet, hit your redial on the phone when they arrive, or search through your garbage for evidence. High-tech losers may encourage you to make “private” calls to friends from their residence, calls that are being secretly taped for later reference. They may begin to tell you what to wear, what to listen to in music, and how to behave in public. Eventually, they tell you that you cannot talk to certain friends or acquaintances, go certain places, or talk about certain issues in public. If no date is planned on Friday night, “The Loser” will inform you that they will call you that night – sometime. That effectively keeps you home, awaiting the call, fearing the verbal abuse and questions you might receive if you weren’t home for the call. This technique allows “The Loser” to do what they want socially, at the same time controlling your behavior from a distance or a local bar.

    If you’re dating a ‘loser’, you may recognize in your partner some of these characteristics described by Consulting Clinical Psychologist Joseph M. Carver, PhD. This article continues with a note on dangerous versions of the ‘loser’ and offers guidelines for detachment. Also see the new “Relationship Quiz: True Love or True Loser?”, which may help you to identify and highlight experiences of concern within your relationship.

    11. Public Embarrassment: In an effort to keep you under control while in public, “The Loser” will lash out at you, call you names, or say cruel or embarrassing things about you in private or in front of people. When in public, you quickly learn that any opinion you express may cause them to verbally attack you, either at the time or later. If you stay with “The Loser” too long, you’ll soon find yourself politely smiling, saying nothing, and holding on to their arm when in public. You’ll also find yourself walking with your head down, fearful of seeing a friend who might speak to you and create an angry reaction in “The Loser”.

    12. It’s Never Enough: “The Loser” convinces you that you are never quite good enough. You don’t say “I love you” enough, you don’t stand close enough, you don’t do enough for them after all their sacrifices, and your behavior always falls short of what is expected. This is another method of destroying your self-esteem and confidence. After months of this technique, they begin telling you how lucky you are to have them – somebody who tolerates someone so inadequate and worthless as you.

    13. Entitlement: “The Loser” has a tremendous sense of entitlement, the attitude that they have a perfectly logical right to do whatever they desire. If cut off in traffic, “The Loser” feels they have the right to run the other driver off the road, assault them, and endanger the lives of other drivers with their temper tantrum. Keep in mind, this same sense of entitlement will be used against you. If you disobey their desires or demands, or violate one of their rules, they feel they are entitled to punish you in any manner they see fit.

    14. Your Friends and Family Dislike Him: As the relationship continues, your friends and family will see what “The Loser” is doing to you. They will notice a change in your personality or your withdrawal. They will protest. “The Loser” will tell you they are jealous of the “special love” you have and then use their protest and opinion as further evidence that they are against you – not him. The mention of your family members or friends will spark an angry response from them – eventually placing you in the situation where you stop talking about those you care about, even your own family members. “The Loser” will be jealous and threatened by anyone you are close to – even your children. In some cases, your parents or brothers/sisters will not be allowed to visit your home.

    15. Bad Stories: People often let you know about their personality by the stories they tell about themselves. It’s the old story about giving a person enough rope and they’ll hang themselves. The stories a person tells inform us of how they see themselves, what they think is interesting, and what they think will impress you. A humorous individual will tell funny stories of himself. “The Loser” tells stories of violence, aggression, being insensitive to others, rejecting others, etc. They may tell you about past relationships and in every case, they assure you that they were treated horribly despite how wonderful they were to that person. They brag about their temper and outbursts because they don’t see anything wrong with violence and actually take pride in the “I don’t take nothing from nobody” attitude. People define themselves with their stories, much like a culture is described by it’s folklore and legends. Listen to these stories – they tell you how you will eventually be treated and what’s coming your way.

    16. The Waitress Test: It’s been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the “honeymoon phase” of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time “The Loser” has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap – you’ll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment – that’s how they’ll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent – they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt, hit the road.

    17. The Reputation: As mentioned, mentally healthy individuals are consistent in their personality and their behavior. “The Loser” may have two distinct reputations – a group of individuals who will give you glowing reports and a group that will warn you that they are serious trouble. If you ask ten people about a new restaurant – five say it’s wonderful and five say it’s a hog pit – you clearly understand that there’s some risk involved in eating there. “The Loser” may actually brag about their reputation as a “butt kicker”, “womanizer”, “hot temper” or “being crazy”. They may tell you stories where others have called them crazy or suggested that they receive professional help. Pay attention to the reputation. Reputation is the public perception of an individual’s behavior. If the reputation has two sides, good and bad, your risk is high. You will be dealing with the bad side once the honeymoon is over in the relationship. With severe behavior problems, “The Loser” will be found to have almost no friends, just acquaintances. Emotionally healthy and moral individuals will not tolerate friendships with losers that treat others so badly. If you find yourself disliking the friends of “The Loser”, it’s because they operate the same way he or she does and you can see it in them.

    18. Walking on Eggshells: As a relationship with “The Loser” continues, you will gradually be exposed to verbal intimidation, temper tantrums, lengthy interrogations about trivial matters, violence/threats directed at others but witnessed by you, paranoid preoccupation with your activities, and a variety of put-downs on your character. You will quickly find yourself “walking on eggshells” in their presence – fearful to bring up topics, fearful to mention that you spoke to or saw a friend, and fearful to question or criticize the behavior of “The Loser”. Instead of experiencing the warmth and comfort of love, you will be constantly on edge, tense when talking to others (they might say something that you’ll have to explain later), and fearful that you’ll see someone you’ll have to greet in public. Dates and times together will be more comfortable and less threatening when totally alone – exactly what “The Loser” wants, no interference with their control or dominance.

    19. Discounted Feelings/Opinions: “The Loser” is so self-involved and self-worshipping that the feelings and opinions of others are considered worthless. As the relationship continues and you begin to question what you are feeling or seeing in their behavior, you will be told that your feelings and opinions don’t make sense, they’re silly, and that you are emotionally disturbed to even think of such things. “The Loser” has no interest in your opinion or your feelings – but they will be disturbed and upset that you dare question their behavior. “The Loser” is extremely hostile toward criticism and often reacts with anger or rage when their behavior is questioned.

    20. They Make You “Crazy”: “The Loser” operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing “crazy” things in self-defense. If “The Loser” is scheduled to arrive at 8:00 pm – you call Time & Temperature to cover the redial, check your garbage for anything that might get you in trouble, and call your family and friends to tell them not to call you that night. You warn family/friends not to bring up certain topics, avoid locations in the community where you might see co-workers or friends, and not speak to others for fear of the 20 questions. You become paranoid as well – being careful what you wear and say. Nonviolent males find themselves in physical fights with female losers. Nonviolent females find themselves yelling and screaming when they can no longer take the verbal abuse or intimidation. In emotional and physical self-defense, we behave differently and oddly. While we think we are “going crazy,” it’s important to remember that there is no such thing as “normal behavior” in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from “The Loser” before permanent psychological damage is done.

    Dangerous Versions of “The Loser”

    There are more severe if not dangerous versions of “The Loser” that have been identified over the years. If you are involved in a relationship with one of these versions, you may require professional and legal assistance to save yourself.

    Physical Abuser

    Physical abusers begin the relationship with physical moving – shoving, pushing, forcing, etc. That quickly moves into verbal threats with physical gestures – the finger in the face, clenched fist in the face, and voiced physical threats such as “You make me want to break your face!” Eventually, these combine to form actual physical abuse – hitting, slapping, and kicking. “The Loser” is always sorry the next day and begins the mean-then-sweet cycle all over again. Getting away from physical abusers often requires the assistance of family, law enforcement agencies, or local abuse agencies. Female losers often physically attack their partner, break car windows, or behave with such violence that the male partner is forced to physically protect himself from the assault. If the female loser is bruised in the process of self-protection, as when physically restraining her from hitting, those bruises are then “displayed” to others as evidence of what a bad person the partner is and how abusive they have been in the relationship.

    Psychotic Losers

    There are losers that are severely ill in a psychiatric sense – the movie description of the “Fatal Attraction”. Some may tell you wild stories and try to convince you that they are connected to The Mob or a government agency (CIA, FBI, etc.). They may fake terminal illness, pregnancy, or disease. They intimidate and frighten you with comments such as “I can have anyone killed…” or “No one leaves a relationship with me…”. If you try to end the relationship, they react violently and give you the impression that you, your friends, or your family are in serious danger. People often then remain in the abusive and controlling relationship due to fear of harm to their family or their reputation. While such fears are unrealistic as “The Loser” is only interested in controlling you, those fears feel very real when combined with the other characteristics of “The Loser”.

    Psychotic or psychiatrically ill losers may also stalk, follow, or harass you. They may threaten physical violence, show weapons, or threaten to kill you or themselves if you leave them. If you try to date others, they may follow you or threaten your new date. Your new date may be subjected to phone harassment, vandalism, threats, and even physical assaults. If you are recently divorced, separated, or have recently ended another relationship, “The Loser” may be intimidating toward your ex-partner, fearing you might return if the other partner is not “scared off”. Just remember – everything “The Loser” has ever done to anyone will be coming your way. “The Loser” may send you pictures of you, your children, or your family – pictures they have taken secretly – hinting that they can “reach out and touch” those you love. You may need help and legal action to separate from these individuals.

    Guidelines for Detachment

    Separating from “The Loser” often involves three stages: The Detachment, Ending the Relationship, and the Follow-up Protection.

    The Detachment

    * Observe the way you are treated. Watch for the methods listed above and see how “The Loser” works.
    * Gradually become more boring, talk less, share fewer feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore “The Loser” into lessening the emotional attachment, while at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.
    * Quietly contact your family and supportive others. Determine what help they might be – a place to stay, protection, financial help, etc.
    * If you fear violence or abuse, check local legal or law enforcement options such as a restraining order.
    * If “The Loser” is destructive, slowly move your valuables from the home if together, or try to recover valuables if in their possession. In many cases, you may lose some personal items during your detachment – a small price to pay to get rid of “The Loser”.
    * Stop arguing, debating or discussing issues. Stop defending and explaining yourself – responding with comments such as “I’ve been so confused lately” or “I’m under so much stress I don’t know why I do anything anymore”.
    * Begin dropping hints that you are depressed, burned out, or confused about life in general. Remember – “The Loser” never takes responsibility for what happens in any relationship. “The Loser” will feel better about leaving the relationship if they can blame it on you. Many individuals are forced to “play confused” and dull, allowing “The Loser” to tell others “My girlfriend (or boyfriend) is about half nuts!” They may tell others you’re crazy or confused but you’ll be safer. Allow them to think anything they want about you as long as you’re in the process of detaching.
    * Don’t start another relationship. That will only complicate your situation and increase the anger. Your best bet is to “lay low” for several months. Remember, “The Loser” will quickly locate another victim and become instantly attached as long as the focus on you is allowed to die down.
    * As “The Loser” starts to question changes in your behavior, admit confusion, depression, emotional numbness, and a host of other boring reactions. This sets the foundation for the ending of the relationship.

    Ending the Relationship

    Remembering that “The Loser” doesn’t accept responsibility, responds with anger to criticism, and is prone to panic detachment reactions – ending the relationship continues the same theme as the detachment.

    * Explain that you are emotionally numb, confused, and burned out. You can’t feel anything for anybody and you want to end the relationship almost for his or her benefit. Remind them that they’ve probably noticed something is wrong and that you need time to sort out your feelings and fix whatever is wrong with you. As disgusting as it may seem, you may have to use a theme of “I’m not right for anyone at this point in my life.” If “The Loser” can blame the end on you, as they would if they ended the relationship anyway, they will depart faster.
    * If “The Loser” panics, you’ll receive a shower of phone calls, letters, notes on your car, etc. React to each in the same manner – a boring thanks. If you overreact or give in, you’ve lost control again.
    * Focus on your need for time away from the situation. Don’t agree to the many negotiations that will be offered – dating less frequently, dating only once a week, taking a break for only a week, going to counseling together, etc. As long as “The Loser” has contact with you they will feel there is a chance to manipulate you.
    * “The Loser” will focus on making you feel guilty. In each phone contact you’ll hear how much you are loved, how much was done for you, and how much they have sacrificed for you. At the same time, you’ll hear about what a bum you are for leading them on, not giving them an opportunity to fix things, and embarrassing them by ending the relationship.
    * Don’t try to make them understand how you feel – it won’t happen. “The Loser” is only concerned with how they feel – your feelings are irrelevant. You will be wasting your time trying to make them understand and they will see the discussions as an opportunity to make you feel more guilty and manipulate you.
    * Don’t fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how “The Loser” is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over.
    * Seek professional counseling for yourself or the support of others during this time. You will need encouragement and guidance. Keep in mind, if “The Loser” finds out you are seeking help they will criticize the counseling, the therapist, or the effort.
    * Don’t use terms like “someday”, “maybe”, or “in the future”. When “The Loser” hears such possibilities, they think you are weakening and will increase their pressure.
    * Imagine a dead slot machine. If we are in Las Vegas at a slot machine and pull the handle ten times and nothing happens – we move on to another machine. However, if on the tenth time the slot machine pays us even a little, we keep pulling the handle – thinking the jackpot is on the way. If we are very stern and stable about the decision to end the relationship over many days, then suddenly offer a possibility or hope for reconciliation – we’ve given a little pay and the pressure will continue. Never change your position – always say the same thing. “The Loser” will stop playing a machine that doesn’t pay off and quickly move to another.

    Follow-up Protection

    “The Loser” never sees their responsibility or involvement in the difficulties in the relationship. From a psychological standpoint, “The Loser” has lived and behaved in this manner most of their life, clearly all of their adult life. As they really don’t see themselves as at fault or as an individual with a problem, “The Loser” tends to think that the girlfriend or boyfriend is simply going through a phase – their partner (victim) might be temporarily mixed up or confused, they might be listening to the wrong people, or they might be angry about something and will get over it soon. “The Loser” rarely detaches completely and will often try to continue contact with the partner even after the relationship is terminated. During the Follow-up Protection period, some guidelines are:

    * Never change your original position. It’s over permanently! Don’t talk about possible changes in your position in the future. You might think that will calm “The Loser” but it only tells them that the possibilities still exist and only a little more pressure is needed to return to the relationship.
    * Don’t agree to meetings or reunions to discuss old times. For “The Loser”, discussing old times is actually a way to upset you, put you off guard, and use the guilt to hook you again.
    * Don’t offer details about your new life or relationships. Assure him that both his life and your life are now private and that you hope they are happy.
    * If you start feeling guilty during a phone call, get off the phone fast. More people return to bad marriages and relationships due to guilt than anything else. If you listen to those phone calls from a little distance, as though you were taping them, you’ll find “The Loser” spends most of the call trying to make you feel guilty.
    * In any contact with the ex “Loser”, provide only a status report, much like you’d provide to your Aunt Gladys. For example: “I’m still working hard and not getting any better at tennis. That’s about it.”
    * When “The Loser” tells you how difficult the breakup has been, share with him some general thoughts about breaking-up and how finding the right person is difficult. While “The Loser” wants to focus on your relationship, talk in terms of Ann Landers – “Well, breaking up is hard on anyone. Dating is tough in these times. I’m sure we’ll eventually find someone that’s right for both of us.” Remember – nothing personal!
    * Keep all contact short and sweet – the shorter the better. As far as “The Loser” is concerned, you’re always on your way somewhere, there’s something in the microwave, or your mother is walking up the steps to your home. Wish “The Loser” well but always with the same tone of voice that you might offer to someone you have just talked to at the grocery store. For phone conversations, electronics companies make a handy gadget that produces about twenty sounds – a doorbell, an oven or microwave alarm, a knock on the door, etc. That little device is handy to use on the phone – the microwave dinner just came out or someone is at the door. Do whatever you have to do to keep the conversation short – and not personal.


    In all of our relationships throughout life, we will meet a variety of individuals with many different personalities. Some are a joy to have in our life and some provide us with life-long love and security. Others we meet pose some risk to us and our future due to their personality and attitudes. Both in medicine and mental health, the key to health is the early identification and treatment of problems – before they reach the point that they are beyond treatment. In years of psychotherapy and counseling practice, treating the victims of “The Loser”, patterns of attitude and behavior emerge in “The Loser” that can now be listed and identified in the hopes of providing early identification and warning. When those signs and indicators surface and the pattern is identified, we must move quickly to get away from the situation. Continuing a relationship with “The Loser” will result in a relationship that involves intimidation, fear, angry outbursts, paranoid control, and a total loss of your self-esteem and self-confidence.

    If you have been involved in a long-term relationship with “The Loser”, after you successfully escape you may notice that you have sustained some psychological damage that will require professional repair. In many cases, the stress has been so severe that you may have a stress-produced depression. You may have severe damage to your self-confidence/self-esteem or to your feelings about the opposite sex or relationships. Psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors are available in your community to assist and guide you as you recover from your damaging relationship with “The Loser”.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:16 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    Failed to deal with the PTSD shall transform you to have at least dual personality
    by S3ra Sutan Rajo Ali
    Jakarta, 2014-03-21 PM 01:16


    Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)
    * American Psychiatric Association
    * National Institute of Mental Health
    * Handbook of Psychology, Vol. 8 (John Wiley)

    Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder).

    Dissociative Identity Disorder, formerly referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder, is a condition wherein a person’s identity is fragmented into two or more distinct personalities. Sufferers of this rare condition are usually victims of severe abuse.


    Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a severe condition in which two or more distinct identities, or personality states, are present in-and alternately take control of-an individual. The person also experiences memory loss that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.

    DID is a disorder characterized by identity fragmentation rather than a proliferation of separate personalities. The disturbance is not due to the direct psychological effects of a substance or of a general medical condition, yet as this once rarely reported disorder has become more common, the diagnosis has become controversial.

    Some believe that because DID patients are easily hypnotized, their symptoms are iatrogenic, that is, they have arisen in response to therapists’ suggestions. Brain imaging studies, however, have corroborated identity transitions in some patients. DID was called Multiple Personality Disorder until 1994, when the name was changed to reflect a better understanding of the condition-namely, that it is characterized by a fragmentation, or splintering, of identity rather than by a proliferation, or growth, of separate identities.

    DID reflects a failure to integrate various aspects of identity, memory and consciousness in a single multidimensional self. Usually, a primary identity carries the individual’s given name and is passive, dependent, guilty and depressed. When in control, each personality state, or alter, may be experienced as if it has a distinct history, self-image and identity. The alters’ characteristics-including name, reported age and gender, vocabulary, general knowledge, and predominant mood-contrast with those of the primary identity. Certain circumstances or stressors can cause a particular alter to emerge. The various identities may deny knowledge of one another, be critical of one another or appear to be in open conflict.


    * The individual experiences two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self).
    * The reported range of identities is from 2 to more than 100. Half of the reported cases include individuals with 10 or fewer.
    * At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person’s behavior. Each may exhibit its own distinct history, self-image, behaviors, and, physical characteristics, as well as possess a separate name.
    * Particular identities may emerge in specific circumstances. Alternative identities are experienced as taking control in sequence, one at the expense of the other, and may deny knowledge of one another, be critical of one another or appear to be in open conflict. Transitions from one identity to another are often triggered by psychosocial stress.
    * Frequent gaps are found in memories of personal history, including people, places, and events, for both the distant and recent past. Different alters may remember different events, but passive identities tend to have more limited memories whereas hostile, controlling or protective identities have more complete memories.
    * Symptoms of depression, anxiety, passivity, dependence and guilt may be present.
    * In childhood, problem behavior and an inability to focus in school are common.
    * Self-destructive and/or aggressive behavior may take place.
    * Visual or auditory hallucinations may occur.
    * The average time that elapses from the first symptom to diagnosis is six to seven years.
    * The disturbance is not due to the direct psychological effects of a substance or of a general medical condition.


    Why some people develop DID is not entirely understood, but they frequently report having experienced severe physical and sexual abuse, especially during childhood. Though the accuracy of such accounts is disputed, they are often confirmed by objective evidence. Individuals with DID may also have post-traumatic symptoms (nightmares, flashbacks, and startle responses) or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Several studies suggest that DID is more common among close biological relatives of persons who also have the disorder than in the general population. As this once rarely reported disorder has grown more common, the diagnosis has become controversial. Some believe that because DID patients are highly suggestible, their symptoms are at least partly iatrogenic- that is, prompted by their therapists’ probing. Brain imaging studies, however, have corroborated identity transitions.


    The primary treatment for DID is long-term psychotherapy with the goal of deconstructing the different personalities and uniting them into one. Other treatments include cognitive and creative therapies. Although there are no medications that specifically treat this disorder, antidepressants, anti-anxiety drugs or tranquilizers may be prescribed to help control the mental health symptoms associated with it.


    Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)
    Reviewed by Kimball Johnson, MD on May 26, 2012

    Dissociative identity disorder (previously known as multiple personality disorder) is an effect of severe trauma during early childhood, usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse.

    What Is Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    Most of us have experienced mild dissociation, which is like daydreaming or getting lost in the moment while working on a project. However, dissociative identity disorder is a severe form of dissociation, a mental process, which produces a lack of connection in a person’s thoughts, memories, feelings, actions, or sense of identity. Dissociative identity disorder is thought to stem from trauma experienced by the person with the disorder. The dissociative aspect is thought to be a coping mechanism — the person literally dissociates himself from a situation or experience that’s too violent, traumatic, or painful to assimilate with his conscious self.

    Is Dissociative Identity Disorder Real?

    You may wonder if dissociative identity disorder is real. After all, understanding the development of multiple personalities is difficult, even for highly trained experts. But dissociative identity disorder does exist. It is the most severe and chronic manifestation of the dissociative disorders that cause multiple personalities.

    Other types of dissociative disorders defined in the DSM-IV, the main psychiatry manual used to classify mental illnesses, include dissociative amnesia, dissociative fugue, and depersonalization disorder.

    What Are the Symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    Dissociative identity disorder is characterized by the presence of two or more distinct or split identities or personality states that continually have power over the person’s behavior. With dissociative identity disorder, there’s also an inability to recall key personal information that is too far-reaching to be explained as mere forgetfulness. With dissociative identity disorder, there are also highly distinct memory variations, which fluctuate with the person’s split personality.

    The “alters” or different identities have their own age, sex, or race. Each has his or her own postures, gestures, and distinct way of talking. Sometimes the alters are imaginary people; sometimes they are animals. As each personality reveals itself and controls the individuals’ behavior and thoughts, it’s called “switching.” Switching can take seconds to minutes to days. When under hypnosis, the person’s different “alters” or identities may be very responsive to the therapist’s requests.

    Along with the dissociation and multiple or split personalities, people with dissociative disorders may experience any of the following symptoms:
    * Depression
    * Mood swings
    * Suicidal tendencies
    * Sleep disorders (insomnia, night terrors, and sleep walking)
    * Anxiety, panic attacks, and phobias (flashbacks, reactions to stimuli or “triggers”)
    * Alcohol and drug abuse
    * Compulsions and rituals
    * Psychotic-like symptoms (including auditory and visual hallucinations)
    * Eating disorders

    Other symptoms of dissociative identity disorder may include headache, amnesia, time loss, trances, and “out of body experiences.” Some people with dissociative disorders have a tendency toward self-persecution, self-sabotage, and even violence (both self-inflicted and outwardly directed). As an example, someone with dissociative identity disorder may find themselves doing things they wouldn’t normally do such as speeding, reckless driving, or stealing money from their employer or friend, yet they feel they are being compelled to do it. Some describe this feeling as being a passenger in their body rather than the driver. In other words, they truly believe they have no choice.

    What’s the Difference Between Dissociative Identity Disorder and Schizophrenia?

    Schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder are often confused, but they are very different.

    Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness involving chronic (or recurrent) psychosis, characterized mainly by hearing or seeing things that aren’t real (hallucinations) and thinking or believing things with no basis in reality (delusions). People with schizophrenia do not have multiple personalities. Delusions are the most common psychotic symptom in schizophrenia; hallucinations, particularly hearing voices, are apparent in about half of people.

    Suicide is a risk with both schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder, although patients with multiple personalities have a history of suicide attempt more often than other psychiatric patients.

    How Does Dissociation Change the Way a Person Experiences Life?

    There are several main ways in which the psychological processes of dissociative identity disorder change the way a person experiences living, including the following:
    * Depersonalization. This is a sense of being detached from one’s body and is often referred to as an “out-of-body” experience.
    * Derealization. This is the feeling that the world is not real or looking foggy or far away.
    * Amnesia. This is the failure to recall significant personal information that is so extensive it cannot be blamed on ordinary forgetfulness. There can also be micro-amnesias where the discussion engaged in is not remembered, or the content of a meaningful conversation is forgotten from one second to the next.
    * Identity confusion or identity alteration. Both of these involve a sense of confusion about who a person is. An example of identity confusion is when a person sometimes feels a thrill while engaged in an activity (such as reckless driving, DUI, alcohol or drug abuse) which at other times would be revolting. In addition to these apparent alterations, the person may experience distortions in time, place, and situation.

    It is now acknowledged that these dissociated states are not fully-mature personalities, but rather they represent a disjointed sense of identity. With the amnesia typically associated with dissociative identity disorder, different identity states remember different aspects of autobiographical information. There is usually a host personality within the individual, who identifies with the person’s real name. Ironically, the host personality is usually unaware of the presence of other personalities.

    What Roles Do the Different Personalities Play?

    The distinct personalities may serve diverse roles in helping the individual cope with life’s dilemmas. For instance, there’s an average of two to four personalities present when the patient is initially diagnosed. Then there’s an average of 13 to 15 personalities that can become known over the course of treatment. While unusual, there have been instances of dissociative identity disorder with more than 100 personalities. Environmental triggers or life events cause a sudden shift from one alter or personality to another.

    Who Gets Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    While the causes of dissociative identity disorder are still vague, research indicates that a combination of environmental and biological factors work together to cause it. As many as 98% to 99% of individuals who develop dissociative disorders have recognized personal histories of recurring, overpowering, and often life-threatening disturbances at a sensitive developmental stage of childhood (usually before age 9). Dissociation may also happen when there has been insistent neglect or emotional abuse, even when there has been no overt physical or sexual abuse. Findings show that in families where parents are frightening and unpredictable, the children may become dissociative.

    How Is Dissociative Identity Disorder Diagnosed?

    Making the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder takes time. It’s estimated that individuals with dissociative disorders have spent seven years in the mental health system prior to accurate diagnosis. This is common, because the list of symptoms that cause a person with a dissociative disorder to seek treatment is very similar to those of many other psychiatric diagnoses. In fact, many people who have dissociative disorders also have secondary diagnoses of depression, anxiety, or panic disorders.

    The DSM-IV provides the following criteria to diagnose dissociative identity disorder:
    1. Two or more distinct identities or personality states are present, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self.
    2. At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person’s behavior.
    3. The person has an inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
    4. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (such as blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or a general medical condition (such as complex partial seizures).

    Are There Famous People With Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    Famous people with dissociative identity disorder include retired NFL star Herschel Walker, who says he’s struggled with dissociative identity disorder for years but has only been treated for the past eight years.

    Walker recently published a book about his struggles with dissociative identity disorder, along with his suicide attempts. Walker talks about a feeling of disconnect from childhood to the professional leagues. To cope, he developed a tough personality that didn’t feel loneliness, one that was fearless and wanted to act out the anger he always suppressed. These “alters” could withstand the abuse he felt; other alters came to help him rise to national fame. Today, Walker realizes that these alternate personalities are part of dissociative identity disorder, which he was diagnosed with in adulthood.

    How Common Is Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    Statistics show the rate of dissociative identity disorder is .01% to 1% of the general population. Still, more than 1/3 of people say they feel as if they’re watching themselves in a movie at times, and 7% percent of the population may have undiagnosed dissociative disorder.

    What’s the Recommended Treatment Plan for Dissociative Identity Disorder?

    While there’s no “cure” for dissociative identity disorder, long-term treatment is very successful, if the patient stays committed. Effective treatment includes talk therapy or psychotherapy, medications, hypnotherapy, and adjunctive therapies such as art or movement therapy.

    Because oftentimes the symptoms of dissociative disorders occur with other disorders, such as anxiety and depression, dissociative disorder may be treated using the same drugs prescribed for those disorders. A person in treatment for a dissociative disorder might benefit from antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication.

  • Virtual Chitchatting 1:15 PM on 2014/03/21 Permalink  

    Realising to incur PTSD
    by S3ra Sutan Rajo Ali
    Jakarta, 2014-03-21 PM 01:15

    It is your psychological resilience that can help you yourself deal with the PTSD.


    Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): Symptoms, Treatment and Self-Help for PTSD
    Melinda Smith, M.A., and Jeanne Segal, Ph.D., February 2014

    After a traumatic experience, it’s normal to feel frightened, sad, anxious, and disconnected. But if the upset doesn’t fade and you feel stuck with a constant sense of danger and painful memories, you may be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). It can seem like you’ll never get over what happened or feel normal again. But by seeking treatment, reaching out for support, and developing new coping skills, you can overcome PTSD and move on with your life.

    In This Article:
    * What is PTSD?
    * PTSD vs. normal reaction to trauma
    * Signs & symptoms of PTSD
    * PTSD symptoms in children
    * PTSD causes and risk factors
    * Getting help for PTSD
    * Finding a therapist for PTSD
    * Self-help & support for PTSD

    What is post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)?

    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can develop following a traumatic event that threatens your safety or makes you feel helpless.

    Most people associate PTSD with battle-scarred soldiers-and military combat is the most common cause in men-but any overwhelming life experience can trigger PTSD, especially if the event feels unpredictable and uncontrollable.

    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can affect those who personally experience the catastrophe, those who witness it, and those who pick up the pieces afterwards, including emergency workers and law enforcement officers. It can even occur in the friends or family members of those who went through the actual trauma.

    PTSD develops differently from person to person. While the symptoms of PTSD most commonly develop in the hours or days following the traumatic event, it can sometimes take weeks, months, or even years before they appear.
    Traumatic events that can lead to PTSD include:
    * War
    * Natural disasters
    * Car or plane crashes
    * Terrorist attacks
    * Sudden death of a loved one
    * Rape
    * Kidnapping
    * Assault
    * Sexual or physical abuse
    * Childhood neglect
    Or any shattering event that leaves you stuck and feeling helpless and hopeless

    The difference between PTSD and a normal response to trauma

    The traumatic events that lead to post-traumatic stress disorder are usually so overwhelming and frightening that they would upset anyone. Following a traumatic event, almost everyone experiences at least some of the symptoms of PTSD. When your sense of safety and trust are shattered, it’s normal to feel crazy, disconnected, or numb. It’s very common to have bad dreams, feel fearful, and find it difficult to stop thinking about what happened. These are normal reactions to abnormal events.

    For most people, however, these symptoms are short-lived. They may last for several days or even weeks, but they gradually lift. But if you have post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), the symptoms don’t decrease. You don’t feel a little better each day. In fact, you may start to feel worse.

    A normal response to trauma becomes PTSD when you become stuck:
    After a traumatic experience, the mind and the body are in shock. But as you make sense of what happened and process your emotions, you come out of it. With post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), however, you remain in psychological shock. Your memory of what happened and your feelings about it are disconnected. In order to move on, it’s important to face and feel your memories and emotions.

    Signs and symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    The symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can arise suddenly, gradually, or come and go over time. Sometimes symptoms appear seemingly out of the blue. At other times, they are triggered by something that reminds you of the original traumatic event, such as a noise, an image, certain words, or a smell.
    While everyone experiences PTSD differently, there are three main types of symptoms:
    1. Re-experiencing the traumatic event
    2. Avoiding reminders of the trauma
    3. Increased anxiety and emotional arousal

    Symptoms of PTSD: Re-experiencing the traumatic event
    * Intrusive, upsetting memories of the event
    * Flashbacks (acting or feeling like the event is happening again)
    * Nightmares (either of the event or of other frightening things)
    * Feelings of intense distress when reminded of the trauma
    * Intense physical reactions to reminders of the event (e.g. pounding heart, rapid breathing, nausea, muscle tension, sweating)

    Symptoms of PTSD: Avoidance and numbing
    * Avoiding activities, places, thoughts, or feelings that remind you of the trauma
    * Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
    * Loss of interest in activities and life in general
    * Feeling detached from others and emotionally numb
    * Sense of a limited future (you don’t expect to live a normal life span, get married, have a career)

    Symptoms of PTSD: Increased anxiety and emotional arousal
    * Difficulty falling or staying asleep
    * Irritability or outbursts of anger
    * Difficulty concentrating
    * Hypervigilance (on constant “red alert”)
    * Feeling jumpy and easily startled

    Other common symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
    * Anger and irritability
    * Guilt, shame, or self-blame
    * Substance abuse
    * Feelings of mistrust and betrayal
    * Depression and hopelessness
    * Suicidal thoughts and feelings
    * Feeling alienated and alone
    * Physical aches and pains

    Symptoms of PTSD in children and adolescents

    In children-especially those who are very young-the symptoms of PTSD can be different than the symptoms in adults. Symptoms in children include:
    * Fear of being separated from parent
    * Losing previously-acquired skills (such as toilet training)
    * Sleep problems and nightmares without recognizable content
    * Somber, compulsive play in which themes or aspects of the trauma are repeated
    * New phobias and anxieties that seem unrelated to the trauma (such as a fear of monsters)
    * Acting out the trauma through play, stories, or drawings
    * Aches and pains with no apparent cause
    * Irritability and aggression

    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) causes and risk factors

    While it’s impossible to predict who will develop PTSD in response to trauma, there are certain risk factors that increase your vulnerability.

    Many risk factors revolve around the nature of the traumatic event itself. Traumatic events are more likely to cause PTSD when they involve a severe threat to your life or personal safety: the more extreme and prolonged the threat, the greater the risk of developing PTSD in response. Intentional, human-inflicted harm-such as rape, assault, and torture- also tends to be more traumatic than “acts of God” or more impersonal accidents and disasters. The extent to which the traumatic event was unexpected, uncontrollable, and inescapable also plays a role.

    Other risk factors for PTSD include:
    * Previous traumatic experiences, especially in early life
    * Family history of PTSD or depression
    * History of physical or sexual abuse
    * History of substance abuse
    * History of depression, anxiety, or another mental illness
    * High level of stress in everyday life
    * Lack of support after the trauma
    * Lack of coping skills

    Getting help for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    If you suspect that you or a loved one has post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), it’s important to seek help right away. The sooner PTSD is confronted, the easier it is to overcome. If you’re reluctant to seek help, keep in mind that PTSD is not a sign of weakness, and the only way to overcome it is to confront what happened to you and learn to accept it as a part of your past. This process is much easier with the guidance and support of an experienced therapist or doctor.

    It’s only natural to want to avoid painful memories and feelings. But if you try to numb yourself and push your memories away, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) will only get worse. You can’t escape your emotions completely-they emerge under stress or whenever you let down your guard-and trying to do so is exhausting. The avoidance will ultimately harm your relationships, your ability to function, and the quality of your life.

    Why Should I Seek Help for PTSD?
    * Early treatment is better. Symptoms of PTSD may get worse. Dealing with them now might help stop them from getting worse in the future. Finding out more about what treatments work, where to look for help, and what kind of questions to ask can make it easier to get help and lead to better outcomes.
    * PTSD symptoms can change family life. PTSD symptoms can get in the way of your family life. You may find that you pull away from loved ones, are not able to get along with people, or that you are angry or even violent. Getting help for your PTSD can help improve your family life.
    * PTSD can be related to other health problems. PTSD symptoms can make physical health problems worse. For example, studies have shown a relationship between PTSD and heart trouble. By getting help for your PTSD you could also improve your physical health.
    Source: National Center for PTSD

    Treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    Treatment for PTSD relieves symptoms by helping you deal with the trauma you’ve experienced. Rather than avoiding the trauma and any reminder of it, treatment will encourage you to recall and process the emotions and sensations you felt during the original event. In addition to offering an outlet for emotions you’ve been bottling up, treatment for PTSD will also help restore your sense of control and reduce the powerful hold the memory of the trauma has on your life.

    In treatment for PTSD, you’ll:
    * Explore your thoughts and feelings about the trauma
    * Work through feelings of guilt, self-blame, and mistrust
    * Learn how to cope with and control intrusive memories
    * Address problems PTSD has caused in your life and relationships

    Types of treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)
    * Trauma-focused cognitive-behavioral therapy. Cognitive-behavioral therapy for PTSD and trauma involves carefully and gradually “exposing” yourself to thoughts, feelings, and situations that remind you of the trauma. Therapy also involves identifying upsetting thoughts about the traumatic event-particularly thoughts that are distorted and irrational-and replacing them with more balanced picture.
    * Family therapy. Since PTSD affects both you and those close to you, family therapy can be especially productive. Family therapy can help your loved ones understand what you’re going through. It can also help everyone in the family communicate better and work through relationship problems caused by PTSD symptoms.
    * Medication is sometimes prescribed to people with PTSD to relieve secondary symptoms of depression or anxiety. Antidepressants such as Prozac and Zoloft are the medications most commonly used for PTSD. While antidepressants may help you feel less sad, worried, or on edge, they do not treat the causes of PTSD.
    * EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) incorporates elements of cognitive-behavioral therapy with eye movements or other forms of rhythmic, left-right stimulation, such as hand taps or sounds. Eye movements and other bilateral forms of stimulation are thought to work by “unfreezing” the brain’s information processing system, which is interrupted in times of extreme stress.

    Finding a therapist for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    When looking for a therapist for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), seek out mental health professionals who specialize in the treatment of trauma and PTSD. You can start by asking your doctor if he or she can provide a referral to therapists with experience treating trauma. You may also want to ask other trauma survivors for recommendations, or call a local mental health clinic, psychiatric hospital, or counseling center.

    Beyond credentials and experience, it’s important to find a PTSD therapist who makes you feel comfortable and safe, so there is no additional fear or anxiety about the treatment itself. Trust your gut; if a therapist doesn’t feel right, look for someone else. For therapy to work, you need to feel respected and understood. To find a trauma therapist, see the Resources and References section below.

    Help for veterans with PTSD

    If you’re a veteran suffering from PTSD or trauma, there are organizations that can help with counseling and other services. To find help in your country, see the Resources and references section below.

    Self-help treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

    Recovery from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a gradual, ongoing process. Healing doesn’t happen overnight, nor do the memories of the trauma ever disappear completely. This can make life seem difficult at times. But there are many things you can do to cope with residual symptoms and reduce your anxiety and fear.

    PTSD self-help tip 1: Reach out to others for support
    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can make you feel disconnected from others. You may be tempted to withdraw from social activities and your loved ones. But it’s important to stay connected to life and the people who care about you. Support from other people is vital to your recovery from PTSD, so ask your close friends and family members for their help during this tough time.
    Also consider joining a support group for survivors of the same type of trauma you experienced. Support groups for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) can help you feel less isolated and alone. They also provide invaluable information on how to cope with symptoms and work towards recovery. If you can’t find a support group in your area, look for an online group.

    PTSD self-help tip 2: Avoid alcohol and drugs
    When you’re struggling with difficult emotions and traumatic memories, you may be tempted to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs. But while alcohol or drugs may temporarily make you feel better, they make post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) worse in the long run. Substance use worsens many symptoms of PTSD, including emotional numbing, social isolation, anger, and depression. It also interferes with treatment and can add to problems at home and in your relationships.

    PTSD self-help tip 3: Challenge your sense of helplessness
    Overcoming your sense of helplessness is key to overcoming post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Trauma leaves you feeling powerless and vulnerable. It’s important to remind yourself that you have strengths and coping skills that can get you through tough times.
    One of the best ways to reclaim your sense of power is by helping others: volunteer your time, give blood, reach out to a friend in need, or donate to your favorite charity. Taking positive action directly challenges the sense of helplessness that is a common symptom of PTSD.

    Positive ways of coping with PTSD:
    * Learn about trauma and PTSD
    * Join a PTSD support group
    * Practice relaxation techniques
    * Pursue outdoor activities
    * Confide in a person you trust
    * Spend time with positive people
    * Avoid alcohol and drugs
    * Enjoy the peace of nature

    PTSD self-help tip 4: Spend time in nature
    The Sierra Club in the United States offers wilderness expeditions for veterans who have served in recent wars such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Anecdotal evidence suggests that pursuing outdoor activities like hiking, camping, mountain biking, rock climbing, whitewater rafting, and skiing may help veterans cope with PTSD symptoms and transition back into civilian life.
    It’s not just veterans who can benefit from spending time outdoors. Anyone with post-traumatic stress disorder can benefit from the relaxation, seclusion, and peace that come with being in the natural world. Focusing on strenuous outdoor activities can also help challenge your sense of helplessness and help your nervous system become “unstuck” and move on from the traumatic event. Seek out local organizations that offer outdoor recreation or teambuilding opportunities.

    Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and the family

    If a loved one has post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), it’s essential that you take care of yourself and get extra support. PTSD can take a heavy toll on the family if you let it. It can be hard to understand why your loved one won’t open up to you-why he or she is less affectionate and more volatile. The symptoms of PTSD can also result in job loss, substance abuse, and other stressful problems.

    Letting your family member’s PTSD dominate your life while ignoring your own needs is a surefire recipe for burnout. I